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January 6, 2016

Open Thread: GT-Pitt

Filed under: Basketball,Open Thread — Chas @ 5:55 pm

7pm.

It’s on various RSNs including Root Sports Pittsburgh, Fox Sports South, NESN, Fox Sports West and others.

Georgia Tech has struggled to rebuild under Brian Gregory. Check that. They have just struggled. As a coach on a warming seat, he has added transfers (traditional and graduate) to his roster. Unlike Pitt, four of their transfers are starters.

Pitt will face a team that has more inside presence than, well, any of the teams they have faced in the last couple weeks. Pitt will not have quite the rebounding edge it has enjoyed recently. GT is more balanced.

The Yellow Jackets have some nice wins against VCU, Arkansas and Tennessee. They also lost to ETSU (8-6) and Georgia (7-4), so there is that.

I’m on DVR delay tonight as some parenting duties keep me busy until 8.





wbb – you’re right. But “Skunk Head”??? C’mon.

Dr Tom, you’re killing me…

POD…no one’s all bad. And you’re the least evil of the haters.

Comment by The Hagen 01.07.16 @ 1:51 pm

here is the CBS story which claims Pitt has the 322nd hardest schedule .. and no, that’s not my comment at the bottom

link to cbssports.com

Comment by wbb 01.07.16 @ 1:54 pm

I think that the “Caroline” name is what Diamond meant. Not specifically the lyrics involving her. He wanted a three syllable name—Peggy Sue, Boobi Jean, Norma Lou. He went with Caroline.

I am no Neil Diamond fan. But, I don’t think he is that whacko.

H2P

Comment by pmdH2P 01.07.16 @ 1:57 pm

I like Bama -6.5 and under 50.5. parlay. $500 to win $1500

I also (Hate to Say this) like the Bengals if Williams is inactive. If he plays and is 75% I like the steelers. With zero threat at RB tough to beat Bengals at home with our DB’s.

Comment by Upittbaseball 01.07.16 @ 2:10 pm

I’m jealous of JD’s hair (since I have none).

Comment by tomcat 01.07.16 @ 2:10 pm

Somebody at CBS don’t like us. 🙁

Who knows pmd…Elton John was singing love songs.

Comment by Emel 01.07.16 @ 2:11 pm

Emel – I’d add speaking in cap locks and, while we’re at it, I’d add braggart or know it all too.

PoS – you try too hard for acknowledgment and recognition. When you grow up and enter the real world you’ll learn that slaps on the back are reserved for special occasions and you don’t get a trophy every time you get something right.

Comment by Tossing Thabeets 01.07.16 @ 2:11 pm

The Good Doctor – I was merely stating that Jamie’s salary is so high it doesn’t allow for multiple down years you know. If he was paid 1M less then yes that lowers expectations significantly. When you make the big bucks, you have big goals.

Comment by Upittbaseball 01.07.16 @ 2:12 pm

~ TT

Wasn’t my definition. Did a cut & paste off of Urban Dictionary.

But yeah, CAP LOCK usage a lot is another good indicator.

Comment by Emel 01.07.16 @ 2:20 pm

I think a troll has an agenda, which is counter to the overall theme of the blog. Although I disagree frequently with UPitt or PoD, I have no problem with them personally and would love to share a beer when the occasion arises.

If we all had the same opinions on everything, this site would be extremely boring.

Much of my entertainment is the verbal jousting, and it is interesting to hear how guys defend their positions.

Comment by gc 01.07.16 @ 2:39 pm

Hagen… It’s really NOT about being a “hater” at all.

I can’t speak for anyone else, but with me it’s only about Jamie Dixon getting the same degree of SCRUTINY as any other Pitt Coach… whether you’re talking Pitt Administrators or here on the Blather.

Personally, I have NEVER said anything derogatory about Dixon. “Great Guy”… “Better Coach than Recruiter”… That’s about the extent of it.

But, at some point, after a DECADE… more than a Decade… you have to start asking whether he’s EVER going to get Pitt to the Promised Land. And I’m not even suggesting an NCAA Championship.

Just Sweet Sixteen every so often and Elite Eight every once in awhile.

And just once… MAYBE just ONE TIME… a Final Four. Is this really asking TOO MUCH?

I know, I know… Jamie runs a CLEAN Program and doesn’t cheat like the other Guys.

Great. But at some point, doesn’t it become about WINNING and NOT constantly talking about NEXT year… and this Recruit or that Recruit and how that’s going to put Pitt back on top?

A GREAT Winning Record like Jamie has… and it’s one of the BEST… says a lot about his ability to Coach.

But the reality is… NCAA Basketball and the environment it operates in today… besides making money… is all about WINNING Conference Titles… getting to “the Dance”… and when you get there… outside of an OCCASIONAL upset… BEATING the Teams you SHOULD beat and once in awhile pulling the OCCASIONAL UPSET.

In my opinion… to ACCEPT anything less… is to ACCEPT MEDIOCRITY.

And this is NOT what I remember Pitt being about whether it’s on the Basketball Court, the Football Field… or the Wrestling Mat.

Comment by PittofDreams 01.07.16 @ 2:43 pm

I also think we have had very few rival team fans come here to troll. They get sniffed out pretty quickly.

Comment by gc 01.07.16 @ 2:46 pm

Thanks Dr Tom, I agree about Miller, excellent kid with great potential.

I feel very positive about the kids that have said they will come. My point was that the last two games were a major letdown and stopped much of the positive momentum. Not that we lost but how we lost.

A couple more high profile recruits would do a lot to get that positive feeling back.

Comment by gc 01.07.16 @ 2:52 pm

GC – I like you buddy. I’m buying!!!

Comment by Upittbaseball 01.07.16 @ 2:55 pm

PoD, once again your hyperbolic ranting is way over the top.

What Pitt has always been about athletically is mediocrity. With the exception of a few short periods of time. Jamie is one guy that actually got us above mediocre for a long stretch of time.

We all hope that Narduzzi will do as well.

In football we have had one National Championship and an elite 8, two if you count Mooney’s in our collective lifetimes.

You can count our collective conference championships in all sports on two hands.

In basketball, we are not Kentucky, Duke, North Carolina, UConn, Kansas, Michigan St. or any of the other final four teams. Never have been, may never be.

You can rant all you want but Pitt has accepted mediocrity in all sports BUT basketball for many years.

Comment by gc 01.07.16 @ 3:03 pm

wbb hit on the grander point way up in this thread (and Zeise touched on it in his recent blog post): sports is a journey not a destination. This “wake me up when we ___” crap is what bandwagon fans do. This team is hella entertaining, plays the right way, doesn’t make bonehead mistakes, HITS THEIR FTs (can we appreciate that for a minute?), etc. 6-7 years ago I thought we’d be yearly fixture top 10 too, but guess what, there are 300 other teams with good players too. The sense of entitlement is astounding sometimes.

But on another note I find the antagonism to be cute from time to time. It keeps things lively. It just when it slips outside of the sports realm when I find it a bit grating.

No idea where that CBS article got 322 for SOS. I mean our sked is not great but that’s like playing Colgate 15 times in a row.

Comment by tacocat 01.07.16 @ 3:06 pm

Wbb, Now I understand, they are using the KenPom ratings, which as it turns out are the outlier of the 4 or 5 major sites. I will only say this, and a comment about the media in general. Why would the CBS article not use the CBS data?? Think they wanted to write a story and used whatever data fit their thinking, even if it ignored their own data? I will research this writer just to see if he,in fact is Upitt! LOL !

Comment by JoeKnew 01.07.16 @ 3:15 pm

Tacocat +1

I would also say that Pitt’s inability to make a final four has more to do with, academic standards, recruiting budgets, shoe contracts, and the ways that other teams have no problem ignoring NCAA rules and taking punishment after the fact if they are caught.

Comment by gc 01.07.16 @ 3:34 pm

Agreed, gc, Pitt and its coach are pretty inflexible when it comes to those things. It’s only very recently we’ve seen Dixon change his recruiting philosophy and playing style. And kudos to him on that because he was pretty stubborn about it.

Two other thoughts on Jamie coming out each side of my mouth: 1) If he doesn’t make the tourney this season and next he should go. While he built the program we can’t let him sink it either. 2) If Coach K retired this evening Dixon would be on the phone with Duke tomorrow morning as a top 5 candidate. Emphasizes defense, runs a clean program…his biggest flaw is that he’s not elite at recruiting which would be completely rectified by working for the Emperor of CBB.

Comment by tacocat 01.07.16 @ 4:04 pm

@pod

i don’t think your post was a rant, in fact, i agree with everything you said. guess some will put me in the haters club as well.

Comment by goalie44 01.07.16 @ 4:27 pm

in 10 years, 40 teams have made the final four. surely pitt with such a great coach and facilities etc etc, been one of those teams??

Comment by goalie44 01.07.16 @ 4:31 pm

Agree with gc

Pitt sports has all been about mediocrity or worse (see Olympic sports) for a long long time.

The few times over the last 100 years, that Pitt football rose to elite levels, the Pitt muckety mucks were always there to pull us back down into mediocrity, into insignificance.

And as we all know football drives everything else.

Comment by Emel 01.07.16 @ 4:33 pm

Sagarin computer rankings
Pitt FB 39
Pitt BB 21
Steelers 8

Comment by Frank MD 01.07.16 @ 4:46 pm

Pitt’s basketball opponents to date are 10 games over .500 (99 wins – 89 losses)

We haven’t exactly played ‘chopped liver’ as the National Media would like you to believe.

We always seem to be the media whipping boy. Go figure.

Comment by Emel 01.07.16 @ 4:48 pm

@emel,

we do it to ourselves.

Comment by goalie44 01.07.16 @ 4:55 pm

this according to yahoo sports “Paterno gets halo returned in mural near Penn State campus”..how quickly we forget….

Comment by goalie44 01.07.16 @ 5:00 pm

Actually goalie, in 10 years 20 teams have made the final four. Five teams made it twice, six teams made it thrice and Kentucky made it four times. Not so easy to make a final four if you are not one of the blue bloods.

Comment by gc 01.07.16 @ 5:06 pm

gc,

you have to look at the big picture, 40 teams DID (sorry for the caps) however you are correct, some are repeats, but 40 did have the opportunity. there were a bunch of non-blue bloods that made also. there is no reason we should not have made it at least once.

Comment by goalie44 01.07.16 @ 5:08 pm

POD

Your comment about Dixpn’s performance for more than a decade got me to thinking about other longstanding long suffering coaching performances so I looked up Boeheim

National Championship took 26 years

And in that first 26 year span here is what else his teams garnered.

Sweet 16 = 8
Round of 8 = 1
NCAA runner up = 1

So it looks like he (Boeheim) was at the “Promised Land” 11 times in 26 years or about twice every 5 years.

So Boeheim makes 1.9 million compared to Dixon’s 1.8 according to a Business Insider article I found. So is he over paid?

Comment by 9-2,8-4,11-1,11-1,11-1 01.07.16 @ 5:12 pm

no, has at least won the big one and been to the final four.

Comment by goalie44 01.07.16 @ 5:14 pm

goalie, only 10 teams made it once including, Michigan, Syracuse, and Villanova, so seven teams beat the odds. We are talking 20 teams out of of 350. Pitt has had very little Pro level talent.

We came very close, one time when we had Blair, Young and Fields and absolutely no one behind them. Even Blair and Young are at best journeymen in the Pros. The Blue bloods put out pros almost yearly. There is every reason we have never made it, we just haven’t had the talent, or the luck in the case of Villanova.

Many solid programs are not on that list of 20.

Comment by gc 01.07.16 @ 5:19 pm

Boeheim also had a one and done who took over the tournament, not necessarily great coaching that got him his Ring.

Comment by gc 01.07.16 @ 5:22 pm

I will also say that Jamie has won more games with less talent than any coach that I can think of.

Comment by gc 01.07.16 @ 5:24 pm

We seemed to be a catalyst for a lot of other teams getting to the Final 4, though.

Marquette, UConn, Butler, etc.

Hoop gods have frowned upon us many a time.

Comment by Emel 01.07.16 @ 5:26 pm

My God, I haven’t heard this in ages!!

link to youtube.com

Comment by Dan 01.07.16 @ 5:30 pm

gc, i know it maybe semantics, but 10 years times 4 teams a year is 40 teams..no matter how many were repeats. we are not talented enough, and we don’t have any luck..i’m sorry, but if the facilities are great and we are supposed to have a great coach, we should have at least caught lighting in a bottle once.

Comment by goalie44 01.07.16 @ 5:38 pm

who knows maybe this is the year?? the team seems poised for a cinderalla run..maybe??

Comment by goalie44 01.07.16 @ 5:41 pm

OK POD,

I’ll agree to disagree with you. 9-2,gc, I also theought of Boeheim as well. 26 years and then he gets THE player that takes him there. I believe that Jamie will get that player…you don’t. Maybe my faith is blind but I wouldn’t trade this coach for anyone out there. There is something to be said for a guy who doesn’t cheat and still wins.

Comment by The Hagen 01.07.16 @ 5:58 pm

TT, you are so bad! I was just giving you the benefit of the doubt that your PoD abbreviation was off by a letter because the D & the S are adjacent on the keyboard. Seemed to remember it occurring more than once though, looked back and sure enough same error. Sly, any accusations made to your inferences easily denied by claiming a simple slip of the finger. So bad you are.

Comment by Dr. Tom 01.07.16 @ 5:59 pm

The 2011 team actually had the clearest path if not for that Butler game. UCONN in a championship game would have been fun too.

Comment by Tossing Thabeets 01.07.16 @ 6:14 pm

Dr. Tom – are you implying I can’t invoke plausible deniability?

Comment by Tossing Thabeets 01.07.16 @ 6:18 pm

Sometimes, when he types, his left hand just starts out in the wrong place.

That’s all. He quickly corrects his positioning though!

Comment by Dan 01.07.16 @ 6:22 pm

And all this time I thought just getting an invite to March Madness was an accomplishment. Losing in the first round always suck but that happens when you suck and are lowly seeded. But then if you get to the Round of 32, you have to be getting some attention nationally and by the Sweet 16 it’s downright respect, no different than a top 10 ranking in football by season’s end. Make it to the Elite 8 and your dreaming of the promised land. The Final Four is obviously the Final Four. Even then though, you still end up with three losers.

So yeah, enjoy the process more than the destination, after all isn’t it supposed to be entertainment in the first place? If you are only happy when you reach the rarified air of the pinicle of the mountain top you may die an unfulfilled climber. Lots of nice views on the way up even when you don’t make it to the top.

Of course, a university of Pitt’s stature and a Coach of Dixon’s pay rate and quality should be held to a pretty demanding standard. Making it to the party every year sounds like a reasonable standard for a good program and I’m always pissed when Pitt fails to get an invite, that is unacceptable. After that it’s all gravy IMO.

Comment by Dr. Tom 01.07.16 @ 6:27 pm

No comment TT.

Comment by Dr. Tom 01.07.16 @ 6:28 pm

The Hagen, I don’t think that I said we can’t get there, although very long odds against, because of the things that I mentioned. I just disagree that somehow it is a given that we should have made a final four and that, Jamie is the one standing in the way.

It is extremely difficult in a one and done tournament to get to the final four, especially when you have few future NBA stars on your team. There have been many great and talented teams that don’t make it. Kentucky with all of it’s firepower made it 4 out of ten years. Duke only made it twice with the best coach and the cream of the crop.

Comment by gc 01.07.16 @ 6:40 pm

TT, and that 2011 team had no future pro on it with Wannamaker, Gibbs, Brown, McGhee and the rest.

Comment by gc 01.07.16 @ 6:47 pm

@doc

you make some good points in your above post. an elite coach should achieve elite results imo and i don’t think we have had elite results. your dead right about enjoying the ride!

Comment by goalie44 01.07.16 @ 7:21 pm

I also don’t think we have an elite coach in Dixon. Good yes.

Comment by Dr. Tom 01.07.16 @ 7:49 pm

Only a handful of elite. Cal, Izzo, K Pittino and Self. You then have the great recruiters in Boeheim and Roy. You can argue Dixon is right behind that group though.

Comment by Tossing Thabeets 01.07.16 @ 8:02 pm

TT, all those guys you mention have had much, much more talent to work with. Not even close.

Which raises the recruiting question.

Comment by gc 01.07.16 @ 8:13 pm

The best way to get to the Final Four is to get a high seed. Pitt has had 5 top 3 seedings in Dixon’s tenure starting in the 2004 Tournament and had 2 #1 seedings.

When you are a one seed you have to beat 3 teams (I don’t count the 16 seed) that are worse than you to get in. What gripes most Pitt fans is that Dixon consistently loses to worse teams and has never beaten a higher seeded team. Some of the loses were downright embarrassing IMO.

I’m not complaining myself, but until Dixon beats a higher seeded team (Pacific? really?), he’ll be open to criticism.

Dixon’s had some great wins though. The UConn wins were spectacular.

link to espn.go.com

Comment by Jackagain 01.07.16 @ 9:16 pm

No argument that there have been some bad losses and not enough tournament wins. But you have to be really good and a little lucky to get to a Final Four. Our closest was with Blair, Young, and Fields, but there was absolutely no depth. TT mentions 2011, no offense, but when Brad Wannamaker is your best player, not exactly overwhelming talent. A lot of strong role players with Gibbs, Nasir, McGhee, and Brown, but really, they got there with great coaching, not overwhelming talent.

Jamie built strong defensive, rebounding teams to bang in the Big East, didn’t really translate well to the Tourney, where you need strong guard play and individual talent.

Time will tell, but this year’s team with it’s better shooting, foul shooting and overall depth, may be a good tournament team.

Long way to go, but like Jackagain mentioned seeding can make a big difference.

Comment by gc 01.07.16 @ 10:52 pm

You can get to the Final 4 with marginal talent.

I give you…George Mason !

Comment by Emel 01.07.16 @ 11:00 pm

In the post-season the really really good coaches get their teams to play at a higher level than they do in the regular season.

Dixon hasn’t been able to figure that out yet.
Who knows if he ever will.

Based on a pretty good sampling size, Dixon’s teams invariably play tentative and tight in the Big Dance. Even struggling against vastly inferior opponents.

So that is a big problem, this year’s team seems to play looser atm, we’ll see how that plays out as the season progresses.

Comment by Emel 01.07.16 @ 11:30 pm

The Boeheim record posted by another individual was not accurate. Just to set the record correct on Boeheim…. From the period he was hired until his national championship in 2003:

Sweet 16: 11 appearances through ’03 (’77, ’79, ’80, ’84, ’87, ’89, ’94, ’96, ’98, ’00, ’03)

Elite 8: 5 appearances through ’03 (’87, ’89, ’96, ’03)

Final 4: 3 appearances through ’03 (’87, ’96, ’03) all three times he made the championship game.

Since 2003, Boeheim made 4 Sweet 16’s, 2 Elite 8’s, and 1 Final 4.

His record speaks for itself. He reached the championship game of the Big East Tournament 15 times in his tenure, going only 5-10 in a 35 year span.

Comment by dallas mike 01.08.16 @ 12:39 am

Two basketball rants, 1. Lots of vacant seats for Georgia Tech. Why not give your seats to someone that will attend?

2.Saturday’s game on ESPN 3, WTF?

Comment by gc 01.08.16 @ 3:55 pm

Emel….and Butler…

Ken Pomeroy as of Thursday rated the Panthers’ strength of schedule 314th (out of 351).

From ESPN “Teams you shouldn’t trust … yet,” (Pitt is #3)

link to espn.go.com

I’ll take that 6 seed now please…

Comment by Jackagain 01.08.16 @ 4:53 pm

In tomorrow’s game, Pitt will be facing a team that is lousy on D. ND is Worse that Kent, Detroit, Duquesne and Morehead St.

Pitt’s D is marginally better than ND’s. But ND is really deficient in 3 point % allowed, and ND does not foul (they have a short bench and cannot afford to).

Although I expect ND to try to “burn” Pitt and I expect Pitt to have trouble stopping ND from scoring, I still think that Pitt can outscore ND.

I hate to sound like Coach Dixon, but rebounding could really be the difference in this game. If Pitt allows ND to get 2nd chances, and “burn” the clock, it could be a frustrating evening.

It would be nice to see Pitt try to trap and force ND to speed-up and make mistakes.

Another OT squeaker in South Bend?

Comment by xfmrman 01.08.16 @ 7:43 pm

Jack, that’s a nice group of teams to be associated with.

This should be a hard Pitt team to “Burn” as long as we rebound. Take the ball to the hoop and they will give up the easy one or foul.

Just hope we shoot well on the road. Need to get off to a good start.

Comment by gc 01.08.16 @ 8:56 pm

One good thing about today’s game: We don’t have to endure Mike Gminski.

Comment by xfmrman 01.09.16 @ 12:03 pm

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