(Folks, this is a two part very large article that I split up to make more manageable. Part 1 now and Part 2 tomorrow).
While I was driving around with my wife today I mentioned the dig Chas gave me about recruiting and ‘stars’ being a favorite topic of mine in his last post. About five minutes later she turned to me and said “Then why don’t you write an article about the last ten quarterbacks PITT recruited and see how they stack up?”
So here they are in full glory. The last ten HS QB we recruited to play at PITT, not the last ten QB to have actually done it. I didn’t include transfers like Peterman and Savage not actually recruited or ’14 class recruit Bertke whom we haven’t seen play yet. The recruiting class is listed first. Read ‘em and weep….
‘13 Tra’von Chapman 4* 12th PC; Dismissed from team ;
‘12 Chad Voytik 4* 4th TG; Currently starting QB
’11 None, Nil, Zilch, Nada, No Way, No How…
’10 Mark Myers 4* 11th DW; Now at Div III John Carroll
’10 Anthony Gonzalez 3* 12th DW; Rushed 8/36 & 1 TD ; LB
’09 Kolby Grey 3* 28th DW; Played defense, C&W Singer
’08 Tino Sunseri 3* 24th DW; PITT’s 3rd leading passer
’08 Greg Cross 3* NR DW; No passes; 5 runs for -3 yards
’07 Pat Bostick 4* 6th DW; FR starter, spot work after
’06 – Kevan Smith 2* NR DW; 37/67 for 419 yards and 1 TD
’06 – Dexter Davidson 3* 32nd DW; Redshirt ’06; gone in ’07, no PT
I don’t know about you guys but that is a pretty depressing list when looked at all together. The fact that Tino Sunseri is on the top of the heap as far as both offensive production and games won is, in a word, unsettling.
Not that I think Sunseri was a bad college QB at PITT, I don’t, but to actually see him in comparison to all of his fellow QB recruits and then to realize no one stacks up to him yet is disheartening. (Hmmm, depressing, unsettling and disheartening… hell of a legacy isn’t it?)
We all hope that Chad Voytik pulls out some real progress from his first to second year of starting and makes us forget about the idea that Sunseri is the most successful of all the QBs PITT recruited over the last decade.
To twist the sharp stick I just pushed into your eyes a bit let’s review even more closely those QBs above who came tumbling and stumbling out of the PITT football clown car.
Like anyone else we PITT fans like to view our players in comparison with each other so at the end of each section I graded them on what I think their value was to the team as a QB and not the position they may have ended up with.
The 2011 recruiting class – to not recruit at least one QB in every single class is stupid. On the 2011 roster we had four QBs; Sunseri, Anderson, Gonzalez and Myers so we looked set I suppose. But strange things happen in college ball. To wit: going into the next season two of those QBs either weren’t on our roster or were moved to LB. That left us left with Sunseri and Anderson to play in 2012 with Savage sitting out.
Imagine if we had injuries to the starter and Anderson had to play. Anderson would have done OK, maybe, but we literally had no 3rd string player to throw in if needed. At the very least that one QB recruited in 2011 would give us some needed depth today.
SCORE: F
Dexter Davidson, 2006 – If I remember correctly PITT offered this kid from Broward County, FL on the strength of a recommendation of PITT star QB Dan Marino. It must have been one of Marino’s not-so-sober days at a beach party. The PITT staff did meet with Davidson on a loop around the south recruiting trip and Dave Wannstedt talked with the kid for a bit one day.
Davidson was really impressed with DW and said this: “He’s a really cool guy, taller than I thought. He was really honest with me. I like that.” Wannstedt best character trait might have been that height, Davidson recognized it before the rest of us.
Of course Davidson never took a snap in a PITT uniform after season being injured his FR year and bolted after he realized that it was going to snow every year he’d be at PITT and he’d keep freezing his ass off if he stayed.
Interestingly enough I can’t find out what happened with Davidson after he left PITT. This could be him (maybe he let his hair grow out) or maybe this guy , but let’s hope this is not him (it’s not, I double checked).
SCORE: C-
Kevan Smith, 2005 – “Big Arm”, “He can really spin it”…Smith was known for his arm strength while he was at PITT but he also worked on his mobility…
“I would say what sets me apart is my arm strength. I worked really hard over the winter to improve it and I think it shows. I’ve also been lifting a lot with my legs so I’m getting quicker and faster. I’m not a Michael Vick but I can move around and make plays. And I think my skills at reading a defense are getting better.”
Good, at the least the dogs were safe anyway. Smith got his big chance after Bill Stull was injured in the 2007 season’s opening game against Eastern Michigan. If you remember he had two INTs in that game the first of which was a pick-6 that put MSU up for good in a 17-13 loss.
After that he himself was injured and soon after realized that he actually knew what he was doing as a baseball catcher and he quit the team.
SCORE: C-
Greg Cross, 2008 – Cross was a highly regarded JUCO QB for some Podunk team in Kansas where football comes in second to hay bale tossing as a popular sport. PITT needed a back-up QB because the incumbent starter, Bill Stull was coming off a serious injury, Pat Bostick, he of the ND and WVU heroics, was targeted as a redshirt and DW’s godson, Tino Sunseri, was a true FR.
Wannstedt actually said this to Cross without laughing…
“[The Pitt coaches] told me it’s open,” Cross told Jeremy Crabtree of Rivals.com. “Whoever comes in and takes over will be the starter. I know I have to come in and learn the system. I don’t expect to get anything handed to me. I know I’m going to have to work hard and compete.”
Apparently Cross didn’t yet know that DW had no idea of the meaning of the phrase “Open QB Competition”.
As a passer Cross was a great runner. He never threw a pass while on the roster and created his own small QB controversy when the first time he touched the ball in a PITT uniform he ran 17 yards for a TD. Unfortunately, the other three times Cross ran the ball that year he lost a total of two yards. He was redshirted in 2009 (why?) and the next season he continued his negative play with one carry for -18 yards.
SCORE: D
Kolby Grey, 2008 – It is hard to believe that Grey was a 3* and 28th nationally ranked QB because when he got to PITT his passing was obviously not up to college standards. He did have a very productive two years as a starter in Texas HS ball…
Threw for nearly 5,000 yards and rushed for more than 1,300 over his final two seasons at Cypress Falls…was a 1,000-yard passer and rusher his senior season…threw for 1,492 yards while completing 57% of his passes (122 of 214)…accounted for 22 total touchdowns (13 rushing and nine passing)…as a junior Gray threw for 3,350 yards with 32 TDs and only five interceptions.
…but it just never translated up one level of play. He was recruited by DW on the strength of his dual-threat capabilities but after he redshirted his FR year it was obvious his talents lay elsewhere.
In the 2010 spring practices DB coach Jeff Hartley lobbied DC Phil Bennett to release Grey over to the defense where he backed up the starting safeties. A total of 10 tackles and one sack were mostly on special teams so Kolby saw the light, made a great choice and followed his heart.
He’s got an awesome set of pipes though…and best of luck to him. I always liked this kid. Hell, here’s another link just for fun and interesting the artist he’s covering with this song was also a college ballplayer, QB Sam Hunt of Alabama/Birmingham.
SCORE: D
Tomorrow we’ll finish up talking about the other five recruits and how they helped or didn’t help the cause. Stay tuned.
Ironically, there is a Trib article a couple days ago about Kevan Smith. He is 27 and may actually have chance to be promoted to the Majors as a catcher with the White Sox.
Rumor is that the Pirates are hiring Wanny as a scout.
I wanted to show how poor our actual (normal I guess) recruiting of QBs has been.
BTW – I hope all had a safe and happy 4th of July.
HTP!
These last 318year’s.
Per BigB, I hope the next 9 years can rival 63, 75-83! Those
were the best times of my Pitt Fan football life.
Think we are on the right track.
We saw today that offensive pressure and execution can make even the best defense and ball control team fold.
Full throttle on the O next year. Then allow the D to unleash the dogs of war.
That combo is good for 10 wins.
1. I’ve been to funerals that were more cheerful!
2. I hope Tino really is Dave W.’s godson, at least that makes sense as to why Tiny was always the starter!
If you don’t think that is true, look at some of the negative recruiting we have seen from the Pa Dairy School out east. We only hear about it now because our current staff is actually connected. Also, the deal sealer for Nickerson was our now FBCoach showing him how terrible our coaches were. Look, we need to admit that the instability of a program hurt us in the past and that recruiting starts for most of the big star kids in their high school freshman years!
Continuity almost killed the cat! Gallagher to the rescue.
very depressing list of failures by DW/PC and Pitt has the record
to prove it. if Tom Savage had come to Pitt out of HS DW
might still be coaching. Voytik has the potential to be our
best qb since Tyler. qb the most important position on any FB
team.
Thank you Bill Stull, you kept Pitt football afloat and avoided a much more horrible fate during your tenure, because without you, well,,,,,,
And I never thought that I could bring myself to admit this but apparently playing Tino Sunseri gave Pitt, “the best chance to win”.
And now Narduzzi steps up to the plate. Dinucci, Peterman and MacVittie all in the Panther fold after just a few months on the job with other QB recruits in his sites in the 17 class. Can this be the beginning of a new era? It’s been thirty something years of wandering in the wilderness, we’re still alive and kicking but the Panthers sure have struggled during that time. How Pitt’s previous administration failed to totally destroy Pitt football is beyond comprehension when you consider this QB recruiting list.
Please HCPN, lead us out of the forest, it has been way too long since we have basked in the full warming rays of a competent successful football program. I want to go back to that place again before I die.
I agree with fans that we may well be on the cusp of something good in PITT football which will make the past look all that farther away. We older fans have stuck with PITT for a long time and are somewhat inured to seeing failures from the recruited ranks, however the younger guys may not really understand how important recruiting the really key position on the team really is for PITT, and how we haven’t made it happen yet.
The weird thing about the list is above is that at two of those QBs were really excellent ‘gets’ as recruits – Bostick and Chapman. Three others, Gonzalez, Cross and Myers (depending on which service you believed) were also solid recruits that you would think could have been at least serviceable backups.
But none of those three were even that. Bostick contributed in a tangible way even as a disappointment overall on the field and Chapman’s failure wasn’t due to a lack of talent but to an external incident.
It is just uncanny how poor our various staff’s QB evaluations were… and it wasn’t just one staff either although I have to think the jury is still out on Bertke who is Chryst’s only recruited QB (Graham’s staff evaluated and recruited Voytik).
Ben Dinucci is Narduzzi’s first QB and he could do well although aside from Dark Knight most fans aren’t all that excited about him but as we saw above fan’s excitement doesn’t mean a whole lot.
BigB – I have got that same question from college fans in conversations wherever I was stationed all over the world… “How come PITT is so bad when that have so many great players” I mean I heard that all the time and there just isn’t any real answer for it.
Except for maybe when we had great players at other positions than QB we have had crappy QBs and vice versa. That could be the case.
Wanny’s problem throughout his career is he valued a QB no more than a Punter or Long Snapper.
1) Those who forget the past are destined to repeat it. So looking at past mistakes is a way to learn from them.
2) Wanny in most cases had no choice but start Tino. There were no other options. Now that is on him, but not Tino’s fault.
3) Kevan Smith looked like he had all the tools, (by the way, didn’t Bob L on Scout give him 4 stars like he did all of Wanny’s recruits?) anyways….Ben Roethlisberger didn’t play much QB in High School either.
4) Mark Myers looked like he was going to be the one. Just wasn’t into it.
5) Steve Pederson did not recruit QB’s. Stop blaming the guy for every failure this program has had over the past decade.
You guys know I am friendly with him and his dad but in all objective honesty I do think that there was an alternative to Sunseri back in 2010 if DW had allowed a true and open competition between the two. I think Sunseri did pretty well in his career and I don’t know that Bostick would even have done as well, I kind of doubt it actually, but Bostick was certainly a viable competitor if he would have been allowed to be one.
Regardless I think it would have made both QBs better players (more on that in Part 2).
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Date: 07/03/2015
CONTACT:
Tamara Kilgore
tkilgore@itxm.org • O 412.209.7029 • C 412.298.1466
Pittsburgh Boy Receives Life-Saving Liver Transplant; Family Encourages Support of Community Blood Supply at July Drive
PITTSBURGH — July 23, 2015— A two-year-old Fox Chapel boy diagnosed with end stage liver disease received the miracle his family was hoping for — a life-saving organ transplant.
Now, Lucas Goeller’s family is urging everyone in the Pittsburgh area to think about not only their son, but for the hundreds of other children who are in need of organ and blood donations.
The Goellers teamed with Central Blood Bank and the University of Pittsburgh Athletic Department to host the Lucas Goeller Blood Drive on Friday, July 10, noon to 7 p.m., in the main lobby of the Petersen Events Center, 3719 Terrace Street, in Oakland. Complimentary parking will be available in the Soldiers and Sailors Parking Garage with shuttle service to/from the blood drive.
To pre-register, visit centralbloodbank.org and search by group code CU190083 to schedule your life-saving blood donation. All participating donors will be entered into a random drawing for special Pitt items including autographed Dan Marino footballs.
Lucas was born with a twisted intestine and biliary atresia, a condition that enlarges his liver and causes his abdomen to swell. Since birth, he has endured two major surgeries, three blood transfusions and was hospitalized countless times at Children’s Hospital of Pittsburgh of UPMC. His doctors said that a whole liver transplant was Lucas’ only option.
“We thank the public for supporting Lucas and ask that they continue to support others like him by donating blood,” says Goeller’s father, Rick. “We were blessed to find an organ match for our son, and know how crucial it is to have enough blood on hand for not only the transfusions he’s endured, but for the surgery itself.
Blood transfusions were vital to their son’s health while he awaited the transplant, during and after the procedure. The July 10 blood drive serves to both raise awareness and replenish the local blood supply.
Adds his mother, Jessica, “As a parent, when you have a sick child you rely on the support of others and our family is thankful to those that donated to help Lucas. Now we are asking that you give other parents support and donate at the July 10 blood drive.”
Each collected whole blood unit can support up to three lives. To make an appointment visit centralbloodbank.org and click “Make an Appointment.”
For more information about Central Blood Bank, and to learn where you can donate, call 866-366-6771 or visit centralbloodbank.org.
I agree with Dr. Tom. Maybe we need to have a Bill Stull appreciation day against YSU or something.
Well, we did win a frisbee championship under our previous AD leadership and never sniffed anything else. The bar has been set quite low, hence the overwhelming support and excitement for the new leaders.
Agree with your Bostick comment, he never got a fair chance at QB. DW violated his own football philosophy with Bostick. A starter has to prove he can’t do the job before he loses his job. Pat had beaten ND and WV on the road as the starter for DW’s biggest wins yet he didn’t receive that coaches philosophy when the alternative at QB was Tino who had never won a game with the season opening on the road at Utah. Why ?
In redshirting Bostick in ’09 DW ensured that Sunseri got every single QB2 snap in fall camp and during the season’s practices. DW would then have a built-in excuse not to have an actual competition. He made sure Bostick essentially didn’t play hardly at all since the middle of ’08 – two years before.
That fix was in as soon as Sunseri got the call from DW telling him to decommit from UL and come to PITT.
We’re talking about Bostick playing with one of the most electrifying players in the NFL here. Those defenses were stacked to stop him.
Mariota was a two star recruit.
he didn’t make the big mistake a true freshman might make under those circumstances and importance of that game. (13-9)
And again against ND the following year.
He was rushed into play way too soon, as he didn’t even participate in most of (a portion of) August camp that year. And wasn’t even sure he wanted to be at Pitt.
Certainly we could have gone 6-6 with Pat Bostick as QB as well.
Every college has names like this in the 2nd and 3rd string or lower.
I don’t think any of them were recruited for being The Guy.
The other 5 names were.
Of course he did not fit Fraud’s offense, which pretty much ended his career. Too bad for him and too bad for Pitt. I also believe if DW would have gone with him, he might still be the head coach.
Have said that … I vividly remember listening to Stan and Guy on ESPN Pgh mid-day radio back in January 2010 and being very surprised when Frank Cignetti responded to a question, stating that Tino was the starter. (I thought he may have had the upper hand but expected a competition in the spring.)
As other than that he threw a grand total of 41 passes in 2008 and 11 passes in 2010.
I don’t remember any other Pitt QB, other than going back to Dan Marino starting as a true freshman and even the great one didn’t start until the midway point or so of his freshman year.
Rick Trocano did.
So, very hard to judge Bostick soley on his play of his true freshman year.
Marino’s stats btw weren’t too great his freshman year either. Actually Bostick completed a higher % of passes at 62% to Marino’s 59%.
And of course Marino had a much much better team around him than Bostick. As that was the first of the three, 11 wins 1 loss teams. And Pitt finished the season ranked #7.
Certainly Bostick would have gotten better, just as Marino did.
His completion % his freshman year was 56%.
Van Pelt’s overall numbers his freshman year were substantially better than Marino’s.
He was never given a chance to compete because of nepotism.
That’s how it works. It was a clear as the nose on your face.
As long as Sunseri didn’t crap the bed in a glaring way, the Godson was going to play, no questions asked.
And the media went along as well. Cause that’s how it’s done.
2007 155 252 1500 61.5 5.95 45 8 13 17 111.7
2008 22 41 270 53.7 6.59 37 1 4 5 97.5
2010 7 11 44 63.6 4.00 13 0 2
Now again as Emel stated above, getting thrown in the fray as freshman is very unfair .. as well as limited playing time after that
Only interceptions could get him off the field. So rather than attempt a pass that might get picked, he took the sack instead.
As Graham did in removing him from the Maine game in 2011.
But remember, in his first year as a starter, he only took 22 sacks (compared to the 60 the following year)
As it was a very windy day, his less than strong arm could not deliver the ball.
Pitt never scored. Stull should have been yanked at halftime in favor of Bostick.
Stull’s stats that game.
7 completions in 24 attempts 29%
For 52 yards and 1 pick.
Bostick had almost more yards in 3 attempts than Stull had the whole game.
That was just incredible.
And if not a halftime….certainly after another quarter of futility……after the 3rd quarter.
Pat Bostick in his playing career, got totally screwed over.
Other than the infamous Wayne Adams. I think he even threw for more yards than Stull did that day.
I’m a firm believer that it is the lineup that is important. If your team is on a winning streak you don’t mess with the lineup . For instance if my SS bats .154 but the team wins I don’t mess with the lineup even if I have a better hitting SS. Bostick’s stats don’t mean anything if the team wins and especially that win in Morganhole endears Bostick to me until the team loses multiple games. I was there and Bostick experience as QB was needed in Utah for that opening game.
Things I remember: lots of qb talent with Walt which caused transfers. Remember Luke Getsy? He only got to play a quarter against Ohio U when Rod Rutherford was suspended, I was so excited to be on the ten yard line third row which would bee my seat for the next five years and I was shocked I was one of only 20 students that gave a damn about the football program, but I digress.
Against Ohio U, Luke threw a bunch of great balls and they were all dropped. He lost the next yr’s qb competition against Palko and transferred to Akron with Andy Alleman who I think was an lb. Getsy won a Mac title and works for the GB Packers.
Palko also beat out Joe Flacco causing him to transfer. Flacco played sparingly against Nebraska in a game where Tyler was still learning and no one was there due to a flood or maybe it was Catherine Duane Leonard’s Monday Calc test from hell that caused me to drop my econ major. Flacco also mopped up with 3rd stringer Matt Flaus (a classmate who fumbled in his only play that day/year) in the USF game before the Fiesta Bowl.
I wonder if Tyler was that good that he deserved to play over Flacco and Getsy. Did Flacco and Getsy not get a fair shot? Who knows? Additionally, other guys were brought in as great qb’s who were then moved by Dave the dumbo. I remember Shane Murray as a great CC qb but he was moved to safety. I thought Darryl Strong who picked Pitt over Auburn should have been given a chance to play qb but was instead wasted at te. There was a kid from NJ named Robbie Agnone who was 6’6 and Wanny moved him to te for a year and then I believe he transferred to Delaware to play qb.
All I know is that Wanny lost to Rutgers four years in a row and no fan based deserves that but how did he stick with the same guys for so long when we were never exactly world beaters?
I started saying it is the lack of players, then think of the no names that Walt worked miracles with. Then I thought of those he didn’t and took another drink.
Then I figured it’s the coaches, yup, has to be the coaches, but some leave and do well, at least for awhile!
Not putting together a complete team is also a boggy!
But I finally realized I was making it WAY too complicated and that Reed has this almost right! All those schools that have made the leap to bad to really good started with a MAJOR talent at QB. From Auburn to Baylor to TCU to BYU, they hit the QB jackpot. It’s really that simple, get lightning in a bottle and the rest will fall in line.
His footwork and delivery were definitely an issue.
My God, that list of QB’s is sad. It’s amazing we managed to stay a .500 program for the most part.
Hope Macvittie lights it up for Moeller and stays committed
That was the real start of the self-centered arrogance that helped do DW in the next season.
For that win I will always appreciate Bostick.
Only place he could have played was of course Pitt.
And please – he won those games? Shady won those games – which shows the amazing talent that Shady was.
Best wishes to Pat B. and his good work at Pitt.
Go Pitt.
He only played extensively his true freshman year.
Still completed over 61% of his passes.
He would have gotten better as his got older, like just about everyone else does. (except JR)
You nailed the reason for the extended poor/mediocre at Pitt — very crappy QB recruiting.
I like Cav, but much of the blame for who we offered at QB must fall on him. What was he thinking?
I did think that Kevan Smith had potential, but when a kid doesn’t play very much in HS (for whatever reason), that should be a red flag for QBs, no matter how athletic they may be.
Go Pitt.