Last week some media noted that it was five years after the dogs of the expansiopocolypse were unleashed. The picking apart of the Big 12 that started it all. That led to the silly winners and losers articles. The standards for “winners” and “losers” depended on the biases of the writers.
But hey, it is the offseason. Content is tough to come by. Why not join in the fun.
I just can’t put it simply in winners or losers. There’s a fair amount of stuff in the middle. How about, “Win, Lose or Draw?”
Win:
Pitt
Syracuse
Louisville
Utah
TCU
Rutgers
Lose:
BYU
UConn
Cinci
USF
Draw:
WVU
Nebraska
Colorado
Texas A&M
Missouri
Maryland
The list of “winners” is obvious. At its simplest form, it is about the money. Pitt received a distribution from the ACC of $18.9 million dollars for the 2013-14 year. Compared to what they got in the Big East, it will be about 7 years before I start grousing about being dwarfed on that front by the SEC or Big Ten. (Estimate based on how long it took Virginia Tech to start complaining about the money in the ACC.) I’m guessing the other programs on the “win” list will concur.
Before Pitt and Syracuse left for the ACC, the number for football schools being bandied about was around the $11 million mark. Sadly, that would have been a significant jump from the previous deal. It just serves as a reminder of how huge a boost to the amount of money the athletic department now has available in just a few years.
Possibly more importantly, is that all of these programs are still in a position to truly compete for a place in the college football playoff. They now have (TCU and Utah) or still have access (all the Big East escapees). Sure it is possible for programs outside the Power 5 (P5) to get a spot — and it will likely improve slightly when the inevitable expansion to 8 teams happens in 5-8 years. But all the factors that made it so hard for a non-major conference program to just get to a BCS bowl under the old system, have only gotten more daunting.
The “losers” list is also simple and obvious. For the former Big East football cohorts, they are stuck in about the place that the Mountain West was in before expansiopocolypse. Chances to be good, but not getting paid and constantly ignored by the media. They lost the automatic access to major bowls and every decent program in the American is openly preening and begging for the P5s to somehow expand once more. Geography be damned.
BYU made a bad calculation. If they had stayed in the Mountain West, there could have been a legitimate case to be made with Boise State joining to take the old Big East’s spot in the conference system. Not quite on the level with the other 5 conferences, but not so far off in terms of competing and history. Or they could have been willing to make some concessions and probably gone to the Big 12 with TCU.
Instead, they opted for and then stuck to an independent route. Some of it was the politics of the LDS making the sports program a greater part of their BYU tv channel. Counting on the BCS system remaining in place. Not to mention a bit too much wishful thinking about their place in college athletics.
Their coach is now openly begging for the Big 12 to take them. Yet, the LDS will not bend on their religious-based restrictions — most problematic being the refusal to play on Sunday — which tends to make them more trouble than they are worth in the eyes of major conferences.
Draw is a little more subjective.
Oh, I am certain the escapees from the Big 12 will say its a win simply because they are getting bigger money in the SEC and Big 10 — with a hell of a lot more to come. And yes, that is vital.
Both Mizzou and A&M have been surprisingly competitive in their first years in the SEC. Nebraska has been a factor in the Big Ten by making conference game appearances. But what else do they claim? No longer having to deal with Texas as the conference asshole?
By no means did they lose with the move. But a win? They moved to a more expensive neighborhood. They weren’t at risk of losing any access to the CFP or major bowls. Will they keep up with the others?
Even long-term they won’t be having serious buyer’s remorse (perhaps occasional nostalgia and some frustration). It is simply that their overall position in college athletics will not have been significantly altered.
WVU is almost a win, but the geography makes it more nebulous. I said it when it happened, and it is still true. WVU had no choice when the Big 12 threw that lifeline. It was the best option available.
Like the rest of the Big East survivors, they still have access. They are getting more money than they would have gotten had the Big East remained intact. But they openly pined for the ACC and SEC. Found themselves openly rejected. In the Big 12 are not simply geographic outliers, but on an island from the rest of the conference. Longer term concerns about their place in the conference and ability to recruit remain.
Maryland found its athletic budget so screwed up, they felt there was no choice but to simply chase the biggest payout to get their finances in order as quickly as possible. They are not so geographically out of whack as some others, but it wasn’t a wildly popular move with their fans and alum. It seemed more akin to being resigned to doing what they had to do rather than what they wanted to do.
For others like the programs that moved into the American — UCF, Houston, SMU, Tulane and Navy. It’s a bit better than where they were. A little better TV exposure and money. Better bowls. At the very least it is a slight win for them.
While I understand the financial gain and stability that the ACC offers, there is still a large part of me that wishes we were still in the old BE. It appears that our BB recruiting has suffered … and thus far, I haven’t seen any significant impact on our FB recruiting, but think (hope) that will change shortly.
PITT-Maryland would have been a great natural rivalry. 4.5 hours away and a nice drive is perfect for an away game.
Maryland should be in the ACC, just a weird fit for the Big 10.
Rutgers is a huge winner. They lucked out.
The ACC is a winner getting Louisville. That was a great move.
I don’t think that there is much dispute that Pitt fits in better with the ACC than any other P5 .. considering the enrollment size, academics and location.
I just wish something would happen that they have to join the ACC in football. How long do they stick with Brian Kelly? One good year out of 5.
North
BC
Cuse
Michigan
MSU
OSU
Rutgers
ND
South
Virginia
VT
Louisville
Maryland
Pitt
PSU
WVU
And in the early part of the 1900s, the eastern independents were quite competitive …. not just Pitt, Syracuse and PSU but also Duquesne, Carnegie Tech and Fordham as well as Army.
The college sports environment changed drastically mid century and has been fluid ever since.
How frustrating it has been to not play neighboring universities PSU, WVU and OSU on a semi-regular basis. Maybe Pitt would be in better shape had it been able to give its fans the matchups most want to see.
Nothing is perfect, Maryland hurt for a number of reasons, TV, recruiting, Pitino and Petrino. Even though the deal is better, we can’t get away from a special deal for ND.
In my dream world we get Maryland back, PSU and Uconn join, and we tell ND and Louisville to go to the B1G and get pummeled by OSU and a few others every year.
It is a real shame, because it should be a great rivalry, but now one should fear physical harm, or property damage over a sports event. Good natured verbal abuse is as far as it should ever go.
The real shame is that the majority of WVU fans are great people, but the few idiots are too many.
1936
1. Minnesota
2. Louisiana State
3. Pittsburgh
4. Alabama
5. Washington
6. Santa Clara
7. Northwestern
8. Notre Dame
9. Nebraska
10. Pennsylvania
11. Duke
12. Yale
13. Dartmouth
14. Duquesne
15. Fordham
16. Texas Christian
17. Tennessee
18. Arkansas
(tie) Navy
20. Marquette
1937
1. Pittsburgh
2. California
3. Fordham
4. Alabama
5. Minnesota
6. Villanova
7. Dartmouth
8. Louisiana State
9. Notre Dame
(tie) Santa Clara
11. Nebraska
12. Yale
13. Ohio State
14. Holy Cross
(tie) Arkansas
16. Texas Christian
17. Colorado
18. Rice
19. Northwestern
is good for.
i.e. When does it come up for negotiation again?
I like Pitt in the ACC and I have always been a fan of the ACC (moreso bc of Duke basketball). I think the ACC just needs to dust the rest of the dirt off from the SEC when the SEC left them in the dust with 7 straight champions, huge stadiums, ridiculous recruiting, and 7-8 ranked teams every season.
I’ve stated this before, but I can see the ACC with at least 4 ranked teams every year (Clemson, FSU, VT, The U) and then maybe 2 more each year between Pitt, Duke, Louisville, NC State, GT, and UNC at its best. I like the way the ACC is trending, let’s put it that way.
I think the best scenario for the ACC in the future is realing in PSU and forcing ND into full time memebrship. And then the whole North/South division thing could work as follows…
North: BC, Cuse, PSU, Notre Dame, Pitt, VT, UV, Louisville
South: FSU, Miami, Clemson, GT, Wake, Duke, UNC, NC State
I completely agree with you on not playing WVU because of the ignorant fan base. I don’t know what percentage but there certainly is a lot of them. What really disappoints me about the remaining WVU fans they never speak up during the tirades of the ignorant fans. I have witnessed and experienced in Morgantown these ignorant fans never seeing the other fans try to calm or control the animal behavior. No room for WVU on Pitt’s schedule.
The Mountaineers seem to still do okay with some portions of the WPIAL but not playing Pitt certainly hurts them.
Joining the ACC best decision in the
history of Pitt athletics; meaningful
competition for all sports; just wish we
had a close geographical rival. wish we
played Cuse last game of the year.
Does anyone know the status of 50 mil
exit fee owned by Maryland to the ACC ????
Tweeting Garner will make decision today at
6:00 news. Someone then added, that it will probably during one of the two sports segments,
6:20 or 6:45 ish.
Also tweeted something a bit ambiguous.
Said it won’t be the only one, KDKA is your station for recruiting, etc. etc.
Didn’t say that there will be more than one today, left it open to interpretation.
More than one today?? Or keep watching KDKA, we’ll have more in the future??
years, i’ve seen kids pull out a different hat other than Pitt, PSU or WVU and suprise everyone
so I don’t think it’s a lock.
Explain to me what they bring as a bball member.
Admittedly they were good this year, but did it add anything?
The Big Ten must have told them no dice or that’s where they would have gone.
ACC Network – very complicated issue. ACC would have to buy back 3rd tier TV rights and then take the risk the ACC can make more $ to overcome that huge expense. Probably much safer to let those rights expire or get much closer to expiration.
ND and the ACC have a agreement to play the 5 games annually for a specific number of years, can’t remember but it is something like 10 years. ND cannot join another conference during that period. After that, it is up for renogotiation.
Well, Conner surprised the kid a short while ago by attending his birthday party. Conner refused a piece of cake as he is losing 15 lbs to play at 235.
Never thought he was 250 to begin with but maybe he was. Not sure why he’s losing but sure he knows what he’s doing (maybe because Nard likes his DEs thin and quick)
Comment by Frank MD 06.18.15 @ 9:36 am
Yes – the B1G Commish said as much. They added them to keep PSU in the fold. And it works. PSU will now never leave the B1G.
FWIW, I wanted Pitt to go to the B1G badly. We would have presumably taken Rutgers spot so OSU, Michigan, MSU, PSU, and Maryland every year in the division – tough to win but my god the games would be great. Plus instead of about $20M per year in ACC money we’d be getting $30M+ in B1G money.
Had BC not vetoed UConn who was the ACC’s first choice ahead of us, we’d like be in the Big XII with WVU – that would’ve been awful.
My next thought dwarfs in comparison, I get that, no one has to yell at me.
However, the Olympic sports, especially at a place like ND, do have people that throw their weight around as much as they can.
Not football or hoops certainly, but they are not just dismissed though.
Evidenced by ND not just throwing the Olympic sports in with the old Big East or the new American Athletic Conference.
There are a lot of people at Notre Dame, fans, faculty, coaches etc. etc. that demanded the Olympic sports end up in a Power 5 conference.
Being in with a “little” group wasn’t gonna happen. No matter how big football and hoops are, the other 12-16?? Olympic and womens teams were not just gonna be tossed aside on a heap playing second rate teams and having a second rate schedule.
That’s where I thought the ACC and Swofford should have held strong and called their bluff.
They weren’t ever going to the Big Ten, too much animosity on both sides, and the Big Ten stated either all in or not in.
The other thing ND floated out there, was the Big 12 could be an option.
Paaaleeease!!! I said this then, and now with the hind sight of seeing West Virginia, it’s even more obvious.
There was no way ND was ever gonna constantly send their women/s soccer, men’s tennis, women’s lacrosse,
volleyball teams etc. etc.
to Waco, Lubbock or Stillwater. No way.
I really thought the ACC had the leverage.
MOOT POINT, it’s done, and my above blathering, I’ve said a million times before.
My point now, possibly in the future, maybe 2-3-4 years from now???
Could the ACC not say to Notre Dame, after they are cemented in the ACC in all sports except basketball, well into all of the dynamics of the conference after a total of 5 or 6 years or so,
“hey, we’ve decided we’re going to 16, and we need to have you all in.”
What’s ND gonna do??
Notre Dame feels most at home.
ACC will catch up to B10 money eventually because we have more population and growth and SE FB players.
Texas A&M might be a winner just because they moved out of the shadow of Texas.