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February 5, 2015

Post-Signing Day Hangover

Filed under: Football,Recruiting — Chas @ 7:10 pm

Okay, Pitt didn’t exactly set things ablaze with the 2015 signing class in national perception. Even before the coaching change this was going to be a small and not considered stellar recruiting class. Size matters in the calculations of class rankings. It is just a question of by how much.

Why does size matter? Because the bigger the class size, the bigger the impact on the team. Even if the class isn’t loaded with 4 and 5-star talent. The more players, the more likely — just based on quantity — there will be players that matter.

As each recruiting site weighs size differently, the impact is more noticeable. And obviously disagreements in the value of individual recruits.

So, here’s how it looks for the four major sites with Pitt.

ESPN.com : 48th, 15 commits counted, 3 4-stars, 11 3-stars.

247.com: 62d, 14 commits counted, 2 4-stars, 12 3-stars.

Scout.com: 63d, 13 commits counted, 3 4-stars, 8 3-stars, 2 2-stars.

Rivals.com: 72d, 14 commits counted, 2 4-stars, 8, 3-stars, 3 2-stars.

Scout.com was the only site that didn’t include the JUCO signing of Allen Edwards. ESPN.com included transfer QB Nate Peterman to some degree.

At a certain point, class rankings become useless. Probably around the 30th spot.

Kansas, for example was given the 60th ranked class by Scout.com — 2 spots ahead of Pitt. They signed 27 players. 17 were 3-stars, and the other 10 were 2-stars or less. Or Syracuse which had the 62d ranked class in Rivals.com’s rankings — 10 whole spots ahead of Pitt. They had a 25-man class with 13 3-stars and 12 with 2-stars or less.

Pitt had the smallest recruiting class among power conference schools, by far. Check that, it was among the smallest in D-1 football. Michigan also had a 14-man class. After Michigan and Pitt, the only schools with smaller classes were Hawaii, Colorado St. and UAB(??).

Head Coach Pat Narduzzi may have been spinning a bit when addressing the issue of the small class size.

“We could have added a few more prospects,” Narduzzi said, “but if there is doubt in our coaches’ minds and my mind, we are better off to play it safe and save one.”

He’s also not wrong. It’s better for both sides to not just look to fill the class out — then be faced with running off a kid or having him leave because he felt misled about his opportunity.

And frankly, Pitt’s 2016 class will be tough to reach 20 members. The senior class will only be 11 members. A couple scholarships remain available from this year. Assume some attrition following a coaching change between spring practices (which starts March 15) and the end of December. A class size of 18-20 would be about right.

The new Pitt coaching staff isn’t going to waste time trying to land recruits. Plenty of offers went out today for 2016 kids. The cycle begins anew.





TX… reserving judgement.

The only point I’m making is that Narduzzi isn’t that “ACE” Recruiter he was being made out to be.

A REALLY Good Defensive Coordinator… by all appearances yes.

But not the Guy who comes into the Living Room and IMMEDIATELY wins Mom, Dad and the Recruit over.

He’s obviously going to need to prove himself to be a WINNER to be an effective Recruiter.

Comment by PittofDreams 02.05.15 @ 10:29 pm

Emel… “sorry self.”

To quote an infamous Blather Poster… “LOL”

Comment by PittofDreams 02.05.15 @ 10:31 pm

Thought you’d enjoy that PoD. LMAO

Comment by Emel 02.05.15 @ 10:43 pm

Emel, thanks for the PSU Coach’s link.
Did you notice they had a coach for “Performance Enhancement? I wonder if Sandusky always went to see him?????????

Comment by pittman4ever 02.05.15 @ 11:11 pm

WBB…QB …Peterman is the leader of the team. I while Voytek
Improved as the season went on, he was never a leader. How could he be after Akron. I predict Peterman wins the job outright and leads us out of the wilderness.

McKee will be great and God knows we need help on D.

Like I said earlier and POS has stressed. It’s all in the results.

But POD…I am all in on the tone and appearance of competence set by the new staff. I needed it, we needed it and Pitt needed it. In all my years, I have never been as down on Pitt Football as I was this year. A miracle of lifelines has been thrown to us in the new boss and staff at Pitt. Let us enjoy it a bit …please!

Comment by Dan 72 02.05.15 @ 11:11 pm

Pedo State has a Performance Enhancement Director?

Comment by KeithS 02.05.15 @ 11:21 pm

Just be glad to don’t live in Harrisburg….

link to pennlive.com

They want the statue to their false idol back and they want it now.

Comment by Tony in Harrisburg 02.06.15 @ 12:10 am

>>>>>Pedo State Performance Enhancement Director<<<<<<

link to gopsusports.com

LMAO

Comment by Emel 02.06.15 @ 2:20 am

Naturally….he is kinda Creepy looking !

Comment by Emel 02.06.15 @ 2:22 am

I don’t see this recruiting class being a positive or a negative for Narduzzi, no 1st classes are for any HC coming in with only a month or so to recruit. I do think we’ll see a lot of kids leaving after the spring practices so that HCPN can get a bigger 2016 class… that will be something to keep an eye on. If we lose a couple players in needed positions it could get tricky. Not every returning player loves a new coaching staff for various reasons.

So far I give HCPN good credit for the energy and hiring of his staff and the aggressive manner they have conducted their business so far. As far as I’m concerned Narduzzi gets a full pass from any real criticism until the games actually start being played.

Some of us fans took heat because we weren’t jumping up and down as he recruited but in my case I had already resigned myself to the fact that he wasn’going to land any great surprise recruits. His losing those three recruits hurt a bit but that is way more on the kid’s and their parents then due to Narduzzi himself. He will do much better next class.

I have a new article on LOI Day I’ll post soon but the positive and strong emotions shown by the staff coaches and fans was fantastic.

Comment by reed 02.06.15 @ 5:30 am

What everyone misses is that stature of the football program is the biggest recruiting tool. Yes this is an entergetic new staff, but, Pitt’s record was 6 and 6. Losing 3 “committed” recruits took the class from 18 to 15. Narduzzi and his staff have a lot of work to do. I got excited and probably expected a little to much. This coming season the Panthers have to do better on the playing field. If they do, recruiting will become easier.

Comment by Justinian 02.06.15 @ 6:52 am

Dan 72, Your posting @ 11:11 just above proves you don’t know what you’re talking about.

Voytik was sick before and throughout the Miami games (and vomited a few times), yet bucked it up and led his team to a much needed win. His leadership skills have been praised be coacxhes and teammate.

On the other hand, what gives youthe impression that Peterman is a leader — because he graduated early? The last game he started for Tennessee, he was taken out after only 2 series and replaced by a younger player. I don’t doubt he has skills, but his stats and PT for his 3 years at UT is very unimpressive, to say the least.

Coaches and players aren’t the only ones who praised Voytik’s leadership skills, here is an excerpt from Dokish blog from yesterday and note what he lists first as traits:

Voytik has brains, leadership ability, toughness, good mobility, and a good enough arm. But his arm proved inaccurate often last season despite a 61.3% completion percentage. In the last six games, however, he completed 64.6% so he was clearly improving. He also had 7 touchdowns to just one interception in the last six games. Those interception numbers are obviously fantastic but 7 touchdowns in 6 games is not going to cut it this season.

And BTW, McKee has been recruited hard by Oklahoma, Wisconsin (before and after coaching change), Mich State (same), Nebraska and many other big schools.

I suggest you do a little research before you write.

Comment by wbb 02.06.15 @ 7:04 am

correction: replace Nebraska with Arkansas. WVU also recruited McKee as well as several others.

Comment by wbb 02.06.15 @ 7:10 am

Gil Brandt, former Dallas GM and respected drart analyst tweeted the following .. for those who continue to think Mark Meyers was a mistake

Gil Brandt @Gil_Brandt ·
John Carroll QB Mark Meyers is getting lots of looks by scouts. Chance to be drafted. Same Ohio school Shula, London Fletcher attended.

Don’t know if he will be drafted but just realize this:
– after a redshirt freshman year, the coach who drafted him was fired and
– replaced by a much difference offense that didn’t fit his skills, then
– a 3rd coach comes in and he sits patiently hoping for his turn
– when in the late summer of his 3rd year, he finds out that another high-profile QB is transferring in and is pegged to start the following year
– and then after all of that, he transfers.

He did not turn his back on Pitt nor was he this 4-star failure that some people here make him out to be … whether he was drafted or not.

Comment by wbb 02.06.15 @ 8:06 am

you may remember a year ago that Brandt was the first to say that Savage would be drafted, maybe as high as 2nd round. Again, Meyers may not get drafted but I believe he is much better than many here thinks

Comment by wbb 02.06.15 @ 8:08 am

POD was against the hiring of Narduzzi all the way thru the coaching search. He is only continuing his narrative.

What exactly is the criteria for an ACE recruiter designation anyway? Seems subjective to me. I think it’s premature to pass any kind of judgment in that regard. Let’s give him a full year on the recruiting trail with a season on the sidelines first.

Comment by JCE 02.06.15 @ 8:28 am

What IT comes down to is POD being BUTT-HURT that Pitt didn’t choose any HC from HIS list of candidates. PeRIod.

Due to THIS, he is now GOING to jump ON every perceived negative and spout OFF on how Narduzzi ISN’T this or that. This WILL continue and eventually he will BE right ABOUT something as THE Blind Squirrel sometimes finds THE nut and Pitt beats Miami.

If IT bothers anyone, JUST look for CAPITAL letters strewn throughout a post AND then skip it.

Comment by pghFred 02.06.15 @ 8:35 am

Hey guys, off topic but i dont know who used to always provide the update of “games that can help Pitt’s RPI today” but that was helpful so i knew who i was rooting for during the games.

Not sure if there is somewhere that i can find this info but any help would be appreciated

Comment by rhyno527 02.06.15 @ 8:36 am

JCE, it is solely based on his recruiting record at MSU, where he had the rep of an ace recruiter.

Certainly, it is impossible to predict if he will be a successful HC, but I must admit I was impressed by his staff hiring, which seems to include many other good recruiters.

But the hiring that is most impressive was him hiring an OC who he didn’t know at all, yet he realized that above anything, it was his most important hire. Like Narduzzi, Chaney is accomplished and comes highly recommended.

I like our chances.

Comment by wbb 02.06.15 @ 8:37 am

jce – I was waiting for someone to point that out!

No one can reasonably judge any coach on recruiting when they had less than a month to put a class together.

Comment by pghFred 02.06.15 @ 8:45 am

wbb, I’m with you on that. I like the staff that Pat Narduzzi has put together. I also liked what I saw from them in the few weeks they had to recruit. In coming year, they will have adequate time to get out there and begin to build some relationships with their perspective recruits. The new staff has a talented offense and a young team. I see the glass as half full.

Comment by Justinian 02.06.15 @ 8:50 am

You start a new job. In week six of the new position, a brand new one for you, a co-worker ,let’s call him PODley PODerton, leans over and tells you your work is mighty unimpressive. You should be putting forth a greater effort. “Close the deal”, he says.

“But… But I just started, I was left scrambling trying to clean up after the last guy that was here.”

That’s not good enough for PODerton, he expects you to perform even better than your predecessor. “Hit the ground running”, he says “CLOSE THE DEAL.” To him it’s obvious you aren’t working hard enough or else you would have already achieved the success of your counterpart in the greatly-endowed company across the street. PODerton, who actually has never worked your position, or even in your department, (in fact you’re not even sure if he’s allowed in the building), scoffs at your rebuke. Sure, it’s a hard job and he has high hopes for you, but, as is, the performance he’s seen in a truncated sample size doesn’t impress him.

Your co-worker proceeds to spread his opinion in the breakroom and across the company. He needs to let people know you’re not performing to his lofty expectation. He plants the negative seed of discontent across the organization. Soon people are all looking at you like “What’s going on, man?”.

Then you go home, put on your mask and defend the citizens of Gotham City.

Comment by tacocat 02.06.15 @ 8:53 am

POD, just remember this .. if you want to start comparing, all HCPN has to do is to win the opener vs YSU that would give him the edge right off the bat.

And then the 2nd game is at Akron

Comment by wbb 02.06.15 @ 8:59 am

Perhaps poll a random 50-100 Wisky fans right now and ask them if PC is tweeting, rallying fans, speaking on radio and TV segments, generating student excitement and I’m pretty sure the response will be “no, not at all” I think I’m good with the anti-Chryst

Comment by John 02.06.15 @ 9:15 am

wbb – You are correct Myers didn’t ‘turn his back’ on PITT at all.

As a matter of fact I have written on here often that Myers did PITT a huge favor, more than most fans realize, when he stuck with PITT during the 2011 year when Gonzalez was suspended through fall camp and the beginning of the season. At that point Myers was the only other viable QB on the roster with Sunseri after Bostick and Janocko left after the 2010 season. I know from talking with Myer’s father before at the 2011 spring game they wanted to transfer over the summer but when Gonzalez in July Mark decided to stay which was completely unselfish on his part and probably hurt him in the long run as Graham was never going to play him, even though he asked Myers to stay and that he’d get PT.

What did happen though is that Myers got so disillusioned with Graham after the 2011 fall camp, when Trey Anderson was brought in right before camp and Graham automatically jumped over Myers to the QB2 spot, that Myers pretty much checked out of the program, didn’t really learn Graham’s playbook and bided his time until the end of the season when he could transfer. But again, all that was predicated by Graham’s actions and dishonesty in his dealing with Myers and his Father.

Comment by Reed 02.06.15 @ 9:18 am

There are so many metrics one could weigh when judging the ability to recruit. Does bringing in the max number of stars make one an ace? Or is it ability to find diamonds in the rough? Or is it recognizing traits in kids that will make them successful players in your system? Or maybe it is just how the media perceives the recruiting job you did. It’s a mix of all of that. Narduzzi had years at MSU to lay groundwork for the success he had there. I think it is fair to say he was a bit handcuffed when it came to this class at Pitt due to his short window. Regardless of that I was still encouraged by the results. To call him a disappointment already just stinks of an agenda.

Comment by JCE 02.06.15 @ 9:18 am

^^^ “…when Gonzalez got suspended in July…”

Comment by Reed 02.06.15 @ 9:24 am

I have taken the time to read everyone’s opinion on this new coaching staff’s recruiting results. This subject has produced some heated debate.

I’m at a complete loss about PoD’s disenchantment with Narduzzi’s last stitch efforts to preserve the original class while shoring it up at the same time at positions of need.

It was essential to keep our 4 stars, he accomplished that. It was extremely important that he brought in a QB to replaced Hornibrook who followed Chryst to Wisky. He did that times two, not only offering DiNucci, but also bringing in a ringer from Tennessee who has game experience, age and is immediately eligible since he will be a graduate student. This actually is the cherry on top of this class if Voytik goes down with a season ending injury, because behind him otherwise we had only Bertke, a RS freshman. This would have been a HUGE PROBLEM in 2016 without Peterman coming in HUGE!!

We lost two of our three starting LBs and we have no depth at that position. Narduzzi in response brings in two LB’s in response to that big need. McKee and Brightwell aren’t bottom feeders either with only MAC offers who were glad to get a better Pitt offer. Both of these kids were highly coveted by multiple power 5 programs, PLUS both are fast twitch quick ball hounds, JUST the type of aggressive players that Narduzzi wants for his team. Two slam dunk commitments to solve that LB dilemma.

The only place he came up short was on the DL. Losing Curtis on signing day really hurt but if this JC transfer, Allen comes in ready to pass rush at DE he could lessen the deficit apparent at that position.

So who got the very First offer from Nard Dog? Anybody know? It wasn’t anybody in this 2015 class. It was some 2016 stud recruit. Narduzzi came in looking forward to 2016 right of the bat. He is on task for 2016 already, many other 2015 targets have already secured Pitt offers. This guy gets recruiting. PERIOD.

PittofDreams, you got rocks in your head on this recruiting rant issue of yours. Pull your head out of there, you’ll be needing to drop a Duce soon and it will only be in the way.

Comment by Dr. Tom 02.06.15 @ 9:40 am

Thanks for the background on Myers, Reed and wbb. I wasn’t aware of all of the back story. As Paul Harvey would say, “Now, you know the rest of the story.”

Comment by Jim 02.06.15 @ 10:01 am

@ Dr. Tom:

Good recap of Narduzzi’s short window recruiting efforts. He accomplished the things he absolutely needed to do (Whitehead, transfer vet QB, etc.) and added some nice players that were on the fence or were not even considering Pitt. He resisted adding bodies for the sake of volume and to get a higher recruiting ranking.

It wasn’t a HR because he lost Curtis and a couple others at the end. But, I’d say it was a leadoff double where he just missed getting all of that slider that painted the outside corner. I think the precious star ratings will go up in next year’s class. More importantly, I think this staff knows what they want to see in recruits, and they are going after it.

Comment by Jim 02.06.15 @ 10:06 am

Face it, the last 4 1/2 years have been a total soap opera for Pitt FB.

But now with a new chancellor and new coaching staff, it’s time to look forward. I don’t expect that we all won’t look back here, including me, but if there was ever a time to move forward, I would think it is now.

The new staff and the new chancellor will be judged on their performance, and the jury should be deliberating for quite a long time on both.

Comment by wbb 02.06.15 @ 10:11 am

wbb – it is coming along nicely. When I heard Chryst was leaving I wasn’t upset at all, actually kind of chuckled because that is just “The PITT Way” it seems like. The first concern I had was who would be HC since I had no idea SP was getting fired. Now that I’ve gotten to see Narduzzi in action over the last six months and in person and up close on Wednesday I feel much better that he’s the right choice – a large part of that is his staff choices also.

But you are also correct that we fans look backward also because that is how we fans gauge current successes and because that is what we would be doing sitting at a round table drinking beer and talking PITT football. There is absolutely nothing wrong with it either as success have to be compared to something. The ’15 recruiting class is what it is – it isn’t a home run or a strikeout and truth be told we fans have no idea how it will stack up until the games start being played. But I go along with Dr. Tom – some of our 3* kids were heavily recruited and though highly of by other schools.

Comment by Reed 02.06.15 @ 11:12 am

Thanks for the background on Meyers. I watched he and Gonzolez play in the Big 33 and was so thrilled when Pitt got both of them.Meyers looked like a pro QB playing HS ball .I could never figure what went wrong at Pitt. He should have been a star and might have without Peterson Wanny fiasco. I Hope Meyers does well in the draft.

Comment by Pitt 60 02.06.15 @ 12:07 pm

What an insecure bunch of Kool-Aid Drinkers.

PITTifull

Comment by PittofDreams 02.06.15 @ 4:08 pm

What went wrong with Myers at Pitt ?

Kid had unfortunate timing, he came along at the same time as Tiny.

No way anybody was starting at QB but him.

Comment by Emel 02.06.15 @ 4:09 pm

Make that PITY-the-Fool. LOL

Comment by PittofDreams 02.06.15 @ 4:10 pm

Myers Dad should have realized with a QB on the roster who was a Pitt legacy, no way his kid was playing.

It’s similar to the coache’s son at Miami of Ohio who started for 2 seasons INSTEAD OF BEN ROETHLISBERGER.

Had the coache’s son been one year older, we would have never heard of Ben Roethlisberger most likely, as they had him playing WR to the coach’s son at QB.

Comment by Emel 02.06.15 @ 4:13 pm

I thought Myers might have thrived under Paul Chryst in 2012 but he took off before the fall camp. He kind of fit the big, tall, good arm prototype Chryst was looking for, but Emel is correct – if Sunseri was starting under Todd Graham there was no way Myers was going to get any sort of a shot.

I’m glad Myers has done well at John Carroll and hope he can get to the NFL. But that doesn’t mean he was going to be a star at PITT though. Just like if Flacco stayed at PITT there was no guarantee he was going to be a star. Sometimes a smaller school and smaller competition is what someone needs to shine, especially at QB.

Comment by Reed 02.06.15 @ 4:41 pm

Reed,

I think you’re missing Emel’s point. He doesn’t give a rat’s behind about Sunseri having played for Graham and how that may have influenced Chryst. He’s just grinding his usual Tino axe. It doesn’t matter how good Tino’s stats were over his three years. Stats lie to Emel’s highly trained eye. So does the opinion of three different head coaches who started Tino. That includes Dave Wannstedt for whom Emel still carries a torch. I have never understood how he reconciles that fact.

Comment by Barvo 02.06.15 @ 8:15 pm

I thought the same as Reed that there should have been a competition between Tino and Bostik … but the scenario that Graham had to play Tino is the silliest ongoing thing on this site. The fact is that thee was nobody on that roster that was equipped to run Fraud’s offense, especially Bostik who didn’t even play his final year.

The one play I remember Meyers in Graham’s season was a dropped interception in the end zone by a Lousville DB.

I keep saying this … with all of the excuses Graham gave for leaving Pitt like he did, why wouldn’t he say that he was forced to play a QB? And why would you invest so much in a HC and staff anyway, ad then force his hand? …. again, the scenario is silly.

Comment by wbb 02.06.15 @ 10:31 pm

But one more thing bout the Meyers timeline. While had been thinking about transferring out for over a year, he actually didn’t leave Pitt until mid August in 2012, about 2 weeks after the news that Savage was coming in. In fact, Meyers transferred so late that he didn’t even play in the 1st game for John carroll that year. He did take over in grand style for the 2nd game after only a week’s practice though, and never looked back.

This tells me that he even considered staying the course, since he still had 2 years to play after Tino graduated …. but savage coming in was the last straw.

Comment by wbb 02.06.15 @ 10:54 pm

to correct the timeline on my post above, Savage transfer was announced in late June 2012 and Meyers transferred the 1st week of August

Comment by wbb 02.06.15 @ 11:07 pm

wbb – that is a good point. Savage had to sit out in 2011 and Myers knew he wouldn’t get a chance with him on the roster.

Myers was a good kid but not the prototype jock that some coaches want on the roster. He was much more laid back and wanted football to be more fun than stress.

Comment by Reed 02.07.15 @ 8:38 am

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