It’s been well established that Coach Paul Chryst does not find recruiting to be one of his favorite things. His approach has annoyed, puzzled and infuriated plenty in just a short time.
At times he can be slow to offertalent. Ostensibly based on wanting to see them in a camp or meet with them first. Yet, he’s jumping right on that sophomore QB/punter in Wisconsin.
That’s just a side bar. The issue is that the players he gets to commit — by and large — are not highly starred. A good chunk are players with their biggest offers from MAC schools and lower tier major conference teams.
Like it or not, the recruiting rankings are more than simply guesses. It’s why there is more excitement when a 4- star or so player gives a verbal.
For every Aaron Donald or J.J. Watt that rises well above his star ranking out of high school there are more like Jadeveon Clowney overall in the NFL Draft. Especially versus the total number of 4- and 5-star recruits in each class. The recruiting sites do a better job than we like to admit.
This is a very good piece about how recruiting sites do their evaluations. Their secret sauce or algorithms aren’t revealed. Just a good insight on how each tries to do their evaluations.
Luginbill described the world of camps and 7-on-7 teams as “scary territory” because they insert middle men (i.e. coaches, trainers with a vested interest) into the recruiting process.
He also spoke about another factor that ESPN.com doesn’t value highly in its rankings: scholarship offers. Since the NCAA moved the deadline for committable offers to be made from Sept. 1 of an athlete’s junior year to Aug. 1 preceding their senior year, the amount of offers has skyrocketed.
Coupled with passionate fan bases and college coaches who may offer a player simply because another in-conference school offered, many players rack up 30-plus invites — some of which are committable, some of which aren’t.
“The whole offer thing always irks me,” Luginbill said. “But when I bring it up to people and explain it, I usually get, ‘that makes a lot of sense.'”
Rivals.com makes no apologies for using the camps in evaluations. They make the good point that coaches use them as a basis to make offers so why shouldn’t the recruiting evaluators.
No doubt that the higher rated stars are lesser risks and can provide immediate benefits, but there is a science to coachng them up and fitting them within a team concept.
Pitt can never recruit with the big boys anymore, so like it or not, the PC approach is necessary
None of this, of course negates the point that the 4-5 star loaded teams generally will be more successful than those with mostly 2-3 star guys. On the other hand I believe you can successfully compete with these “loaded” teams if you recruit pretty equally with them at the skill positions and recruit 2-3 star guys for the trenches who have the same or potentially as upperclassmen will have equal physical measurables to their higher rated peers coming out of H.S.
Hopefully they finish strong. I like that we are getting kids from FL and Ohio. Too bad we missed on the kid from NJ but you can’t win them all.
Bring on those future pass rushers.
Still, we have got our share.
IMO the four- five star players are fairly easy to identify. It is the next group down that make or break programs, and that is where the focus on the top tier argument runs off the track.
Stars being awarded based on “who has offered” is a poor way of obtaining those stars. It’s as if a Big Ten staff or others in a rating service mind are better recruiters than other schools. That’s where it gets subjective. And the subjection is deferred to the “name” schools. It shouldn’t. There have been some damn poor coaches at Michigan, Tennessee, and on and on. It shouldn’t matter if one of those programs offers and a recruits star rating suddenly ratchets up the ladder.
Mack Brown is the classic example of a guy getting almost every 4 and 5 star recruit he wanted, but ran 5-7’s on a weak schedule for several years.
Contrast to TCU, where Patterson for many years took kids they identified and won big.
Yes, the program should pursue the 4 and 5’s and best available talent, but in the end the program makes or break on how well they evaluate and recruit players that fit the system and are all in.
But you can still go to the prom even if you can’t get the prettiest girl in school to accompany you. Often have just as much fun and not have to deal with a ton of baggage that tends to come along for the ride with the good lookers.
Right now, Chryst is doing the best he can with the guys that have accepted his offers, IMO. He has even dumped a guy who was a really good looker, AKA Rushel Shell, simply because he got fed up with the negative baggage that came with that package. Is Chryst going to be able to hit it out of the park with this crew that he’s assembled up to this point? The jury is still out on that one, but one thing is for sure, this team is morphing into a real synergistic TEAM.
You can feel it and it is confirmed by the players when they’re interviewed. That just could end up being Chryst’s Ace in the hole. A bunch 3*s playing as a TEAM can produce success.
This season should be a good barometer on whether Chryst is on the correct track or not. The jury will be quick to return a negative verdict if he doesn’t have success THIS season, since his honeymoon with Pitt fans is just about over.
Therefore, Coach Chryst has it right IMO, get these kids under his tutlelage an education that they’ll probably end up utilizing in their futures much more than any straight football coaching techniques that he couldn ever provide them with and you’ll be doing these players the best service possible.
Winning isn’t everything, in thise process, although many lose sight of that fact when discussing major college athletics these days. I think that Coach Chryst already fully understands that, coming from a coaching family tree. His legacy will be a solid one, concerning the future of his student athletes, irrespective if he ever accomplishes major success on the playing field or not.
There’s a lot more to Panther Pride than just if our teams are winning championships or not.
Re Doorson, I for one am really happy about this. Good opportunity for him and for us.
I’ve calmed down about the stars and stuff.
I like 4’s and 5’s better than 2’s and 3’s too. Who doesn’t???
However, simply, we will easily be able to tell whether he is building a good, solid program in the next two years.
Great thing about sports, you’ll see the results on the field, court, diamond, ice etc. etc..
I think he’s on the right track building.
Now, what he needs to do, is take the next step and get us to 8-4, then 9-3 and even dare I dream 10-2. Better bowls.
Then have those years be our norm.
If that happens, then we will get more 4’s and 5’s.
Compete with Alabama or FSU, of course not.
But, when you win, the recruiting gets better. That’s a fact no matter who you are or where you play.
Hopefully he has the ball rolling.
Time will tell.
p.s. In the past, I’ve been worked up over the recruiting, but that was usually in replys to certain agitators on here of “poor recruiting”.
Hey, they may be right. Not gonna get my blood pressure in a huff over it though.
I’ll be able to tell easily whether his system worked, right on the field.
I always liked hiring “character guys” in sales. Less babysitting required etc. less egos etc.
I also think that 2’s and 3’s are easier to shape as a team, and HCPC highly values the concept of “team”. We’ll see how it all works out in the Fall
Were you always this smart or has it just come since you retired and moved south? Love the prom analogy. Think about how many girls who were drop dead gorgeous were also total head cases.
I was more than willing to “coach up” a decent looking girl in high school. Too bad that most of them resisted my recruiting efforts.
H2P
HTP
(Pat White was rated a 2-star athlete (not even a QB) coming out of college)
So, I think the staff have done a good job recruiting within the realistic limitations. They’ve gone after the high-end talent that they felt they had a chance of actually getting, and have gotten a small but increasing number of gems in each class. Outside of that they’ve spent time making sure to get the best available to fill in spots and build depth – something we haven’t had for a long time.
The trouble with Wanny was that he concentrated far too much on the 4/5 star guys, thinking that it was still 1980 and he was going to fill-up a team with them at Pitt. Yes, he did manage to bring some of them in, but not enough to maintain any depth. His staff spent so much time on stars that were most likely not going to come here, that they lost sight of the bigger picture. Their classes had a few stars at certain positions, but gaping holes everywhere else, and it showed on the field big-time.
I’d rather they make sure we have an O-line that’s three players deep at every position with big 3 and 4 star guys, than waste time catering to a bunch of 5 star skill guys who will never come here, and that’s the route HCPC seems to be taking right now.
However taking the ugly girl to the prom? That’s where the line is drawn. For one night I would take the head case over the life long ridicule from my buds for waking up next to a whale.
I like the plan. Pitt puts a couple 8-4 seasons together with three stars, his sales pitch starts to sound like this. Hey kid, we win 8 games consistently with average talent. You are a difference maker and I believe you can get us over the top with one or two more wins during each campaign. Now commit to me cupcake and we will win this neat ACC League.
Seriously though, don’t sweat the three stars. There are way more 3 stars than 4 and 5 stars combined. It’s finding the right ones and coaching them up to perform as a team. This is exciting stuff going on if we could only lose our AD.
We have recruited mediocre for various reasons over the last 3 seasons and it shows.
The coach up philosophy only goes so far with players that are limited in ability. You need talent to win on a consistent basis and the 2014 season should be 8-4 anything less a disappointment.
The 2015 season will be Paul’s make or break year and with the difficult schedule I cannot see them breaking 6-6 unless the coach-em up talent really takes a step forward.
This kid is BIG TIME.
First I’ve seen that I dare to say actually reminds me of Tom Brady…. in build, in the way he throws… but most importantly in how he commands the Offense.
And he punts too. BOY DOES HE EVER!
over a 5 year period, as an example, we will definitely get back to getting a few 4’s and 5’s.
Local kid that wants to stay at home, a kid who wants playing time.
A kid who see’s we’re winning.
A kid that sees HCPC is regularly sending some kids to the pros.
No delusions of getting 10 to 15 4’s and 5’s.
Start winning and we’ll get a few, like we have in the past, even during the last 30 years.
What happens if in 2015 and 2016 we’re
still at 6-6, 7-5, 5-7??? Those same numbers that OPITT mentioned +/- 1 or 2 every year???
I don’t know, put Chryst down as another notch in our belt I guess, with the others from the last 30 years.
I do feel a glimmer of hope with this guy though.
Ya, I’ve felt it before, because many times as Pitt fans that’s all we’ve had, but this time, I feel it genuinely.
We’ll see.
I guess that might mean his UPSIDE could be a little less. Oh well.
Duke, with a boatload of 2 and 3 star rated kids just provided us another example, right in our own very conference. Winning the Coastal Division and giving Johnny Football and SEC Texas A&M all they wanted in the Peach Bowl, just last year.
And guess who was one of the few teams to beat Duke.
Little ole us.
So last year’s recruiting netted us, Cameron Johnson and Ryan Luther. Two local kids, neither of who were highly rated. And a local kid transfer who Dixon knew was coming the previous year.
Seems like the early 70’s all over again.
I sure hope this Smoke guy can recruit, another couple classes like this and we will be a doormat eventually.
Travon Chapman is mentioned. Kid wound up at a Division 2 school (Ashland) and didn’t exactly light it up there.
52% completion ratio
Only 128 ypg
1154 yards
9 TD’s 3 picks
Sacked 15 times
54 rushes for 76 yards
Local division 2 schools are like Seton Hill, Edinboro, California (Pa), IUP, Gannon & Slippery Rock.
So looks like he wasn’t D1 talent. Not anywhere close, at least his freshman year.
This recruiting is so crazy anymore you can’t be sure of anything until you see the kid in a Pitt uniform.
Nobody even knew that Doorson decommitted on his NLO back in January until today or yesterday.
If Chryst is smarter/shrewder this season, we win those games and go 9-3 instead of 6-6. And if we keep racking up guys like Grimm, Johnson, Bookser, Jennings, etc, we win games vs. VTech and probably Miami, putting us potentially at 11-1/10-2 and being in there vs. everyone but FSU for now. Not too shabby.
Taking off my Blue & Gold tinted glasses, PC has proved to be a pretty ordinary game coach, maybe even below ordinary. Lots of questionable decisions. And if it had been Wanny, the term, boneheaded would have been liberally thrown around.
And while the Clemmings project seems to be working, the offensive line as a whole was horrendous and a major reason we lost several games we could have won.
So it remains to be seen whether they can groom Johnson, Biz, Jones-Smith, Grimm, etc into a cohesive O-line.
And that is paramount this season with a very inexperienced QB coming in.
I agree. If the OL opens holes for the runners and gives the quarterback time to execute a play or improvise, we are sitting in high cotton. And, we have some big boys ready to do just that.
H2P
For every game Pitt probably should have won, you could name another that they probably should/could have lost. They were a mediocre team, and that’s what mediocre teams do – ride the roller coaster.
Speaking of special teams, I hope Pitt finds a return man this year other than Boyd. TB is awesome, but I hate to lose him to an injury on a kickoff return.
Dr. Tom, I think next season seals HCPCs fate. I don’t think we’re quite there yet, eas(ier) schedule or not.
Duke — good points, but in my view those close games were really lost on decision making versus player execution or talent. I mean, clearly he was up against it vs. FSU and no one faulted him there, but the rest of the schedule was pretty reasonable and it seemed he hacked up a few that a better coaching day would have salted away…just imho.
I do believe he shows a learning curve and willingness to adjust, unlike Wanny did, and that has me optimistic.
I suppose it’s that Chryst sees what was done at Wisconsin with kids that weren’t really highly rated and thinks he can do the same at Pitt.