I’m going to wait to excoriate. But I won’t deny being highly confused.
Todd Thomas has had two ACL injuries. On his second injury, he continued playing the rest of the 2011 season and delayed surgery — which cost him the first few games of the 2012 season. He has managed to overcome plenty of pain.
Yes, he had a brief, motivational demotion reminder to start camp. But he seemed to get it.
So, before I declare Thomas to be a man of weak will or lacking heart or anything else. I’m going to wait to see if there is any more to this story.
That or I just might start drinking early.
UPDATE: Okay, maybe you can start excoriating. WOW.
Devin Street on Todd Thomas leaving the #Pitt football team: "Some guys gotta go, and he wasn’t on board so I can’t do anything about it."
— Chris Peak (@PantherLair) August 7, 2013
paul chryst mediocre for all you who thinks he walks on water what has he done so far nothing a 6 and 7 record and run 25 players off the team
hired a DC who has no experence
and has recruited more 2 stars then any outher coach at pitt.
you want to belive in him but what has he done nothing that great .
we will soon see if he is any good but right now all he has done is add to the never ending bull shit that surrounds pitt football.
I’m pretty much a pacifist. I don’t require your sympathy though.
I do believe entitlements are a red herring. It is more likely our financial dilemma was caused by Wall Street and our propensity to fight multi-trillion dollar unnecessary wars.
If you are old, you are like me one of the so-called entitled on Social Security and soon to be on Medicare. Which we have all paid into all our working lives. Entitlements which we have earned.
What I don’t understand is why you want to give these kids who aren’t willing to earn it a pass.
All the stars, State Champions, All Americans that I played with or knew personally, earned it with hard work, they didn’t expect anything handed to them. They sure didn’t quit when things didn’t go their way.
Old Pitt Grad, I respect your right to your opinion. Obviously we are both passionate about Pitt. Forgive my poor choice of a word. Also, I hope your money holds out, having recently retired, I am getting used to living on a fixed income and have the same concerns.
By the way, Pitt’s current academic standing is the highest ever. Certainly not because of Football.
Chryst is a blue collar, meat and potato guy who is sincere in his efforts. I think that he has the ability to sell the University and his “vision” for the football program to those recruits who want to listen. He is a good fit for a blue collar city like Pittsburgh, IMO.
This is the important point, I think that Chryst has a defined concept in his head of the type of person that he wants in his program, and possessing the ultimate athletic ability is not the primary characteristic that he’s looking for. Whether his plan comes to bear successful results, only time will tell, but one thing this team will not have in the future are Prima Donnas who possess incorrect attitudes.
Chryst knows what he wants and he is straight forward in his process of getting there. Can he attract the athletes that he NEEDS to win while proceeding down that path will be seen come about season 2016, if he is still around by then to see the fruits of his efforts.
In the meantime, the guys that he recruits will be here because they WANT to be here, and is that so bad?
if he is on the ball on top of things we just want to belive it he has really done nothing.
we wont know for sure till the end of this season
if his way is the right way he could be blowing a different kind of smoke than TG.
if it were not a pitt coach that ran off 25 players and hired a DC WITH NO EXPERENCE.
would you still think he knew what he was doeing
ask your self that and all recruitrd every 2 star he could find if it were a coach at some outher school what would you say.
He’s only going into his 2nd season.
I wouldn’t have expected him to do anything great yet.
He’s also, what the 5th or 6th coach in a few years. He has a mix of players from all over. Players that have had 3 or 4 coaches.
Quite a few bad eggs, or at least confused eggs.
I don’t know the guy, have never met him, but doesn’t he at least get a few years, a full cycle of his recruits, before we say he stinks.
I mean, in year four, if we still stink, then he stinks, I’ll agree.
Right now, after inheriting the mess that was Pitt, he’s to do miracles???
These are not excuses. It’s reality. We’ve all been watching this mess, haven’t we???
I don’t have his back, I don’t say he can’t do no wrong, I don’t personally know him, I’m not covering for him, and I don’t think he walks on water.
Take Paul Chryst, the person out of it.
My opinions, are on the current Pitt football coach. His name could be James Smith or John Jones or Current Resident.
He’s only going into his 2nd season.
Wish I had the crystal ball a few of you have.
As for this kid… he quit..
–on his career,
–on his team,
–on his teammates
–on his college education.
Period end of story.
So he is demoted one day and the coach “calls him out” in public and he can’t handle it?
any people have a problem with this… all the typical folks too… but oh, for sure at Alabama, ND, USC, Ohio State, LSU, et. et.c… they neeeever say anything negative about their players in public??
Chryst didn’t even say anything ‘negative’ either.
Street’s comment says it all.
Get with the program or don’t let the door hit you in A$$ on the way out…
By the way Frankcan, I don’t think he walks on water, he like most of us is entitled to a few mistakes. Maybe his DC choice will be one, but let’s give him the chance to fail before we call him a failure.
I think it will take 3 or 4 years at best to turn this thing around. Maybe Chryst can do it maybe he can’t.
I think it is hilarious how many now miss Wanny, when at the time most wanted him gone. I like most were frustrated that he could not win the big one and was ok with his dismissal. The Cinci game was pretty frustrating.
The Shell episode and now Thomas are frustrating. They both came from nowhere and seem to lack reason. Of all the guys to leave, they were the only two impact players so the 25 or 26 does not concern me. Shell would have run for a lot of yards. Thomas still may make a lot of tackles, but football is a team sport, with team rules and standards. If he comes back he has to put the team first.
In any case Long live the Team.
Jimmy McGinty: Winners always do
As for Street he knows what speaking your mind can do “Jon Baldwin” when the drat comes around.
My professional exerience and academic training makes be certain of one point. Individuals are motivated by different approaches. Most individuals are motivated by positive reinforcement. Football players unlike the general population have often been controlled by fear and negative reinforcement by their coaches and families.
The point is successful managers do not treat their charges in a standardized fashion they take the time to understand what method motivates the player and uses that to buy into the teams goals and subordinadte his natural self interests.
Apparently Chryst and his staff do not understand this fundamental concept of human behavior.
Chryst is beginning to appear to be the new Foge Fazio who reached his level of competence as a coordinator.
Even inmates respond better when treated with respect and dignity. Since their certainly has been no transparency in the government, corporations, or the mainstream press since 1980 we know nothing except what the coaching staff tells us and certainly only a fool would believe what management tells you about someone they consider a disruptive subordinate.
What is really needed is tough, honest investigative reporting in Washington, Wall Street, and athletic progams
Academics matter, but when it comes to college football, winning matters too. Pitt should model Cincy (a school that has a fifth of the tradition and a program that is at least five times better) as to improve football. Why can’t a university with a 2 billion dollar endowment that shares facilities with a world renown pro football organization just try a little harder?
I’m no coach, but I know I could have handled the clock better than the neat coach these guys hired.
The coaching staff itself, Chryst in particular, has had nothing but positive things to say about Todd Thomas, even in private conversations with his HS coach…
“Thomas’ high school coach at Beaver Falls, Ryan Matsook, said the news surprised him. He said he received six voice mail messages from Division II coaches wondering about Thomas’ availability.
Matsook said he didn’t detect any dissatisfaction from Thomas when he joined his players this spring in the weight room.
“I speak quite frequently with Chris Haering (Thomas’ position coach at Pitt), and he never had anything negative to say,” Matsook said. “Todd is competitive. Every kid will get complacent, but the thing that always motivated Todd was if you put anyone in front of him or sat him for a quarter, he always responded positively.”
That quote strikes to the heart of the matter in this issue – for one it shows that ‘motivation tactics’ have been needed as far back as HS with Thomas.
But if you read what Chryst has actually said publicly you’ll find that is has been overwhelming positive regarding Thomas place on the team and Thomas’ character itself. Telling a layer that he needs to concentrate more to remain a starter isn’t insulting in the least – it is a first step in trying to keep the player himself moving forward to staying a starter.
But here.s what is really disappointing. Thomas is one semester away fron graduating and then would have a full year of football scholarship left to basically have a year and a half to work towards a Masters. He’s been a good student and has balanced the two well – up until yesterday. He is cutting off his nose to spite his face.
I think we may see Thomas have a change of heart with this. I just now got off the phone with some smack dab in the middle of the football program and he told me that he just had a lengthy conversation on Monday morning with Thomas and Thomas’ attitude was very upbeat and very much engaged and looking forward to playing this season. It came a a shock to him and everyone else in the program that Thomas did what he did.
It is an absolute joke to say that Todd Thomas quit because he didn’t want to work hard. The kid came back from TWO ACL surgeries. This isn’t some Shell situation where we heard how he was lazy and never practiced. To the contrary everyone seems to like him. Seriously, how poorly does Paul Chryst have to misjudge how to interact and motivate Todd Thomas in order to make him quit? Really poorly. Bottom line, Chryst chose the wrong way to motivate his starting red-shirt junior LB. How about instead of publically calling out the dude day 1 coach Chryst talks to him after practice and says “you need to take it up a notch.” Then if Thomas doesn’t listen demote him. But instead Chryst chooses a day 1 stunt in order to try to show how big and bad of a boss he is to the rest of the team. It backfired.
If it was just Todd Thomas leaving, or just Shell leaving or just the strange hire of a completely unqualified DC or just a poor recruiting class or just poor game day decisions then I’d let one or two slide. But the combination of all these factors show that Chryst doesn’t what you need to be a successful head coach. Chryst just doesn’t have the people skills required for a head coach in college football. People skills help you recruit, people skills help you get really qualified assitant coaches, people skills ensure your players play hard every game (and not half the games like Pitt did last year) and people skills make players buy into your system and prevent them from quitting.
Seriously, Chryst couldn’t really captilize on the momentum of entering the ACC for recruiting, how the heck is he going to recruit after a 3-9 season? I’m sure really good players are going to be lining up to play for an inexperienced head coach with a losing record. It was key for Chryst to win right away.
Finally, stop all the stupid nonsense that Chyrst is purposely choosing lower stars because they actually work hard. There are plenty of 4 and 5 stars that work hard. Chryst just doesn’t get any. Saying Chryst doesn’t want top talent is basically a guy saying “oh I would never go out with a model because they are all crazy and demanding.”
Even the koolaid drinkers on the Rivals and Scout boards have turned on Chryst or have opened their eyes to the deteriorating situation.
Most have come to the understanding that Chryst will/should be gone after the 2014 season before its too late. He is being compared to Foge Fazio and Paul Hackett as good coordinators but terrible HC.
Do you work for NBC, CBS, or ABC??? LoL You have taken the liberty to throw someone under the bus because you don’t agree with them. Everyone has watched Chryst’s interview and the FACTS show he said nothing to cause this. So, like a good liberal news man, you create a hate column based on no to little facts. The man has been here for 1 season. Obama has been Pres for over 5 years and my guess is you’re still supporting him. At least give Chryst a 2nd year before you character assassinate him.
Wake up people. Maybe that is the reason Pitt has sucked.
Anyone that manages people knows you need people with the right attitude. Not quitters.
You obviously never held a management role.
Go take the course Management 101.
You will read about Pavlov, Watson, Skinner. I suggest you take that course.
Right now, we have a coaching problem.
men I can be proud of than 12 wins per season with
boys I’m ashamed of!!
inmates reference is used all over the work forces.. it doesn’t matter what race u are its a term meaning that the management is not going to take it. I used this term many times in the restaurant field, and nobody took it as racial which it seems u r implying
You guys, who are so quick to condemn, casting undocumented accusatorial speculation in the guise of facts are the epitomy of hypocrisy! You want to see true unfounded public ridicule, then read your own posts then go take a good long look at yourselves in the morror!
Coach Chryst got hired to do a job. He is in the process of doing that. He has a team full of individuals that are all different and unique. He is changing the culture and mindset of this team whether each and everyone of those individuals appreciates it or not. Right now he is the guy in charge and he is the guy that is responsible for what is best for THE TEAM, not the individual.
Shell made a unwise, immature and ultimately remorseful decision. That’s HIS problem. Enjoy playing for the Mountaineers. Apparently Todd Thomas didn’t get the memo from that example and has followed in those same footsteps. HIS problem, not Chryst’s.
When Chryst starts throwing guys like Thomas off the team and rationalizes it by publicly stating the that guy was dismissed because he was uncoachable or a bad influence on the rest of the team, etc. THEN you guys may have some ammunition to back up your BS about what Coach is doing so wrong with this team. But for right now, the only guys who are responsible for train wrecks like Shell and Thomas leaving are themselves.
Wake up and smell the coffee!
Exactly. Perfectly put. Thank you for stating a rational and cogent (and I might add, adult) description of what’s going on, both as to the Pitt team and to some truly unbalanced posters that seem to have nothing better to do than rip Pitt.
HTP !
All he said, when asked a question about lighting a fire, was “I hope so”.
He also complimented him several times before and many times after that.
Unless I’m still missing something, that is what we’re talking about right???
A stunt??? What a bunch of candy asses!!
Done with this subject. It got way to many posts for something that didn’t deserve 10 comments.
It sickens me to see how sports has become ALL IMPORTANT to some people, trumping all else.
It saddens me to read how some feel that we need to WIN, WIN, WIN….at any and all costs. Maybe these folks should just focus on professional sports teams where winning IS the primary focus. Pro/Major league teams aren’t in the business of developing young men (and women), they are in the business to win and make money. There is no pretense that they are there ‘to make sure young men/women are ready to enter society’.
Pitt is a University that happens to field a football team. The University, as a whole, is what matters.
To that end, in the aftermath of yesterday’s news, I saw two crystal-clear examples emerge that shed some light on what has been the “culture” of Pitt football the last three or four seasons.
On one hand, you have the comments made by Devin Street – both on Twitter and to the media – talking about Thomas’s willingness to buy in, work hard and be a part of what the team was about.
On the other hand, you have Cam Saddler, who took to Twitter to call out Chryst for what he called “high school tactics”, accusing him of being on a power trip. He essentially argued in other comments that Thomas should’ve been running with the starters this year by default because of past performance, yet wouldn’t entertain the possibility that Thomas’s effort to open this camp may have been substandard and was the reason why he was relegated to the second team. He also seems to insinuate that different standards do need to exist for the team’s best players, drawing a vague reference to Shell as well. And for whatever it’s worth, some fellow Pitt fans pointed out this morning that Saddler changed his Twitter profile to read “Former Member of the Dave Wannstedt Pitt Panthers”.
I was a huge fan of Wannstedt, but it became apparent that there were major issues with the program. The off-field issues that existed were well-documented. On the field, I get the sense that things weren’t much better during his final season, given the way the team seemed to come out flat in big games (Miami, ND, UConn with BE title still in play), culminating in what sure as hell looked like the entire team quitting on him in the loss to WVU at home in 2010. The phrase “inmates running the asylum” was frequently tossed around and plenty of evidence emerged to support it.
I recall it being revealed at the end of last season that sometime prior to the start of the 2012 season, Chryst and his coaches went to a number of the veteran players – many of whom were “Wanny guys” – and asked them to be counted on to take leadership roles within the locker room. I recall it being said that as the season wore on, a significant number of them ended up doing the exact opposite, becoming little more than disruptive malcontents whose matriculation from the program would be a welcome step to move things forward.
(Tangent: To be fair, the attrition isn’t all on Wannstedt’s former players, either. A large chunk of the roster was brought in by Graham under the pretense of playing in a spread-option system. From an on-field standpoint alone, it was logical to assume that many of these guys would leave because they weren’t necessarily suited to play in Chryst’s system.)
Over the last several months, Street has emerged as one of the voices of the culture of the program Chryst is trying to build. There’s some irony there because for some time prior, Street was perceived as an underachiever whose play was sometimes characterized as lazy. There was speculation that he didn’t really come around until he sniffed around his NFL draft prospects and didn’t like what he heard, but whatever the motivations are, Street changed. To move this program forward, they need everyone on the same page and everyone buying in to the same degree.
I’ve argued this before here…it seems like when Walt and Wanny took over, there was significantly more patience within the fanbase through the first few years of their respective tenures. There seemed to be a common understanding that building a program and getting results takes time, and that there would be attrition and growing pains, and that it was a process that didn’t happen overnight.
So what’s changed? Why does it feel like Chryst isn’t being alloted the same, especially when it could be argued that he inherited a signifcantly more chaotic situation? I’m not saying people can’t be criticial or that there aren’t things to criticize; there certainly are things worth criticizing. It just seems as though there’s a huge gap in where expectations were with Wanny & Walt heading into their respective Year Two’s and where things are with Chryst.
Unless we get blown out of each and every conf. game and the team plays with no heart.
IMO, this is much to do about nothing and a LB that had 1 tackle for loss, 1 sack and 1 interception. Did the kid even play in the bowl game against Ole Miss ? If he did he was invisible. Hardly a star. He was a star in HS like so many of these kids are. He has done noting a Pitt for him to be labled a star.
And frankly I didn’t think Shell was that good either. I’ll take Ray Graham over Shell any and every day of the week as far as football skills.
Shell was another who disappeared in the bowl game when he was the starter.
Sounds like we have a few folks who believe in this entitlement culture in sports.
Sorry that crap didn’t exist when I played and society is far worse off with it than when it didn’t exist.
Biggest problem with that philosophy so far however is he hasn’t produced jack$hit to point to as an example of success coming from those efforts. Therfore he is an easy target for these self appointed armchair coaches to pontificate on what a moronic idiot we have as the head of the football program.
And how does Chryst react to such criticism? He doesn’t, he just keeps his mouth shut, his head down and continues to proceed with the same philosophy, continuing the process that initially made him such an easy mark in the first place.
If he’s OK with that, so am I. For his sake however and for the best interest of the team and University, I sure as hell hope that he knows what he is doing, because as of the current date, his first head coaching experiment is still a huge unknown regarding the ultimate results of the experiment.
You’re correct on the Bullshit comment though, we just disagree on who’s dishing it out.