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June 29, 2013

Is VT the Model, Or Just Fools Gold?

Filed under: ACC,Conference — Chas @ 9:14 am

Pitt officially joins the ACC on Monday. I’ll skip the snide commentary on the pretty-boy country duo concert that Pitt has to promote the move. This past week also marked the ten year mark of Virginia Tech and Miami joining the ACC. No one disputes the success of the move financially. For Virginia Tech — much more than Miami — it has been an unprecedented period of growth and success (except for the whole basketball thing) in their athletic department.

Nothing has transpired since to counter what Hokies athletic director Jim Weaver told me in May 2008 about the move.

“The best thing that has ever happened to the university both academically and athletically is the invitation from the Atlantic Coast Conference,” he said then. “There is absolutely no downside. None.”

Indeed, ACC membership has enhanced Tech athletics financially, competitively and academically. And while the Hokies’ non-revenue sports don’t approach the elite level enjoyed by league rivals such as Virginia, Duke, North Carolina and Florida State, they have improved exponentially.

That progress is most evident in the Directors’ Cup all-sports standings. From 1994-2004, Tech’s average finish was 91st, its best 63rd. Since starting ACC competition in the 2004-05 academic year, the Hokies’ average finish is 43rd, with bests of 35th in 2011 and ’12.

Labeled as a “football school,” Tech has won four ACC championships in its marquee sport. During the same nine-season span, Florida State has won two football titles, Clemson, Wake Forest and Georgia Tech one each, the latter vacated due to NCAA sanctions.

But the Hokies’ non-revenue programs have been far more successful than anyone envisioned, earning ACC titles in men’s and women’s track, men’s cross country, softball, wrestling and men’s golf.

Obviously, the football success overshadows everything, but don’t discount the overall success that the athletic department is enjoying.

Now I don’t think that much of the Director’s Cup. In no small part, because for a school like Pitt, things are stacked against Pitt. It favors huge sprawling athletic departments that compete in certain sports. The more sports in which the a school simply competes, a school is already assured of finishing at least in the middle of the pack.

Pitt doesn’t field teams in many of the teams that are counted in the Director’s Cup (like men’s and women’s lacrosse). Heck, Pitt only offers 17 athletic programs in the athletic department and the Director’s Cup tabulations are based on 20 athletic programs. By contrast North Carolina offers 26, Virginia has 23. Even Louisville offers 24 programs. Go figure in the Director’s Cup standings UNC finished 8th. Louisville went 38th and Virginia 20th. Pitt had a horrid year and finished 109th.

But that’s a bit of a tangent (a bit?). The point that I was trying to make is that VT has made great progress in all their programs as reflected in their movement in the Director’s Cup. They’ll never compete for the top of the list, but they look respectable.

As they have had an increased athletic budget they have expanded their athletic department modestly, and put more money into all sports. They haven’t gone out and made expensive coaching hires in the other sports. In fact they have been downright cheap. Their last six coaching hires in the athletic department have all been from promoting from within (including their baseball coach this past week) — with less than stellar results it seems.

Still, the football success and improvement in the Director’s Cup makes it look like VT would be what Pitt would want to emulate (only with basketball success as well). But is that really the case?

Here’s the thing that must be acknowledged. Even before Virginia Tech entered the ACC, they had a football program that was not just stable and successful. It was thriving. They had played for the national championship only a couple years before. They were already making investments in their athletic department and individual programs. They also entered the ACC at what can only be considered the perfect time.

Florida State was just starting their stumble and bumble period. NC State was reached a brief moment with Chuck Amato and were sliding back. UNC never could quite make it. Miami was also falling. Clemson was Clemsoning. From a football standpoint, they came in and at a perfect time to be a force, and — absolutely to their credit — took advantage of it. The Hokies maintained their top-tier position. Until this past season, their stumbles were still much smaller than any other program in the ACC.

I hate calling it simply luck for Virginia Tech. They just happened to have the best timing. Things actually worked out as well as could be hoped. The only luck was in the timing just happening to be perfect.

It reminds me of the Cleveland Indians in the 90s. The perennial mess of a franchise that became the model in 1994-1995. They invested heavily in their farm system. They forced the new stadium that was lovely and loaded with new and bigger revenue streams. And somehow it all timed out exactly at the right time.

The park opened. The fans came. The farm system talent panned out at a remarkable rate. They started winning. The fans kept coming since the team kept winning. It was not simply a miracle or luck in the timing. It was claimed to be from meticulous planning/scouting/development. Everyone wanted to believe it because then it could be copied. It could be reproduced by others.

After that, every franchise from the Pirates to the Tigers to the Mariners to the Rangers to the Padres and so on tried to copy (or at least claim the same plan). Not to mention sell that to their fanbases and municipal/county/state  governments to pay for that expensive new ballpark as what they could do. That they would get their new ballpark to bring in/back the fans just as their new and improved farm system produced the talent and then there is a winner. The fans would keep coming. The civic pride would swell. The money would flow to the area. All would profit.

No one else, though, could nail the precise timing. The Tigers opened Comerica and struggled for several years. I think we all know about the Pirates. It takes more than words and an outline of a plan. It takes a lot more pre-planning and earlier investment. And even then it still requires a significant amount of luck to have it all come together at exactly the time you project.

Virginia Tech has a lot of what Pitt should and want to aspire to achieve as they enter the ACC. There’s plenty to learn and even emulate from what they have done. It’s not going to be nearly as easy as it now appears to have been for the Hokies.





I contest the statement that the best thing that ever happened to VT athletically was the ACC. Fact is that VT was a no-name independent in the early 90s, joined the Big East, and by the end of the decade was playing for the national title.

I even doubt that VT would have been invited to the ACC had they just were no-name independent VT (formerly VPI)

Comment by wbb 06.29.13 @ 1:36 pm

What VT has had in FB over the past two decades plus has been coaching stability … a foreign concept to the Pitt AD

Comment by wbb 06.29.13 @ 1:40 pm

Interesting stuff, Chas. Thanks.

Comment by steve1 06.29.13 @ 1:40 pm

It was of course a god-send to the Hokie nation that VPI & SU joined the ACC (in no small part assisted by their supposed rivals up at TJ’s school in Charlottesville- Wahoo-d a thunk it?) That wasn’t luck that was pure Virginia politics. Stumbling out of the Metro, into the BEast with their relatively new alumnus head football coach from Murray State, that was luck! That luck actually put VT on the collegiate field to compete. Prior their claim to fame was a Peach Bowl invite, DE Bruce Smith and QB Don Strock. A nine win football season brought cartwheels from the faithful, who had been Doolyied for so long. They actually were better known for NIT BB championships, Dell Curry and Don Beecher. Hard to compare a land grant farm school to an urban college, the apples and oranges argument. Yea I gotta go with the fools gold contention, their was luck involved, more a bolt of good fortune out of the sky and I don’t mean the one that hit Lee Corso’s car at an ESPN football broadcast! Hail to Pitt! UPone

Comment by UPone 06.29.13 @ 1:53 pm

See! VT was such a no name, I didn’t even know they were a member of the Metro before they joined the BE.

Comment by wbb 06.29.13 @ 2:08 pm

I second that, wbb. The Big East was the home that Va.Tech grew up in. The BE also was a safe haven for Miami after their NCAA penalties.

Comment by Chuck Morris 06.29.13 @ 2:37 pm

Pederson recently said all sports will be “fully funded” except mens soccer.
For those that don’t know, fully funded means the max number of scholarships allowable per NCAA. Please note, aside from football and basketball, most other athletes get partial athletic scholarship plus whatever other aid they can qualify for.
Next step is to make sure all the other sports are competitive before adding more sports ie. LAX.
This is a big step.

Comment by Pitt.Dan83 06.29.13 @ 3:46 pm

Agree with wbb

The BigEast made VPI, as it was known as for most of it’s football existence. And that was a none to glorious past before Beamer got them on track after a rough beginning to his tenure.

The BigEast was pretty good for everyone in football…….except PITT !!!!

(well maybe Temple too ) sad very sad

Comment by EMel 06.29.13 @ 5:09 pm

PITT’s football fortunes are due for a change.

IMO, we’re either going to be really good or really bad.

But I don’t expect us to be very good this year.

Neither does 5 Dimes. They rated all 125 FBS schools with a projected over/under on wins.

He she is :

link to cbssports.com

Only condolence is the Hoopies are on par with us, while the Pedos……..well…see for yourself

Comment by EMel 06.29.13 @ 5:15 pm

btw Nice to see CBS promoting sports betting.

🙂 What a joke these networks have become !

Comment by EMel 06.29.13 @ 5:21 pm

Further VT…The Hokie nation,is becoming restless. A bit of grumbling even impacted HCFB and the sacred football grail, causing him to shake up his coaching staff. Stinespring was fed to the dogs (figuratively of course). Ever wonder why with his reputation DC Bud Foster, can’t land his own program? Plenty interviews, always the bridesmaid! Nah Frankie is still king but son Shane Beamer (proposed heir apparent) may end up DOA from Paternoalism (See Jay’s obit!) But I digress the perceived problem is the AD Jim Weaver, imagine that, an AD under scrutiny. Since the firing of head mens BB Coach Seth Greenberg and the team’s rapid decent their have been rumblings that Weaver isn’t putting in the time. When you see the mens BB team play this fall w/o G Eric Green (Utah draft pick)you will be shocked that this is an ACC team. Let me be the first to predict an ACC win for the Pitt ladies BB team over the hapless Hokies. Where Weaver hired this womans BB coach from, yesh, under a rock. Anyway lately the Sooners just stormed by for the NCAA Regionals and left with Pete Hughes VT’s successful baseball coach. It took Weaver two minutes to authorize a search comm. (1 man) and walked down the hall @ Merriman Ctr. and poked his finger in a guy’s chest and said your it. No an unhappy Hokie nation get’s to hook up soon with Bama. Hope their QB isn’t killed as their best RB is questionable due to pending criminal charges. H2P! UPone

Comment by UPone 06.29.13 @ 6:30 pm

@Upone, come on man, if you really want someone to read your entire post you have to start a new paragraph every once in a while.

Comment by Dr. Tom 06.29.13 @ 6:52 pm

nice post. Thanks..

Yes Dan, agree and the fact Pitt still has Lacrosse as a clube sport shows that it is not a ‘full’ athletic program.

Lacrosse is blowing up across the country and has been in this region for 10 years. It became the major sport for my twin boys and is a great sport to keep playing in college and beyond.

RMU has a full team but we don’t?

Comment by Pittscript 06.29.13 @ 8:07 pm

Doc, I’m also an advocate of paragraphs. But, damn, UPone gets a pass for his informative rant.

Comment by steve1 06.29.13 @ 8:11 pm

I was done for the evening Steve but thanks for the pass. Tom’s point is well taken and since he been appointed Chair of the Grammar Committee for this blog feel sorry for him. He’s got his work cut out for him. He must be a do professionally to make a comment like that. Don’t get stuck with the sergeant at arms for spelling job Tom, you’ll end up throwing yourself off the Clemente Bridge.
UPone

Comment by UPone 06.29.13 @ 8:50 pm

Keller Chryst staying home, no shock there.

Comment by Iron Duke 06.29.13 @ 9:27 pm

I hope that the new Chancellor decides to hire a new AD and convinces Smiling Steve to retire.

Lacrosse? Okay, but at the risk of sounding like a damaged CD…ice hockey should come first. Boston College manages to have varsity hockey. So does Robert Morris, who hosted the NCAA Frozen four at the Consol Energy Center this spring. I care not that it isn’t an ACC sport.

Comment by Penguins Fan 06.29.13 @ 9:58 pm

IRON DUKE none at all i think most knew he would not come to pitt
the next pitt QB i think will be wade freebeck from FL

Comment by FRANKCAN 06.29.13 @ 10:08 pm

What….nobody thought Uncle Paul would land his nephew Keller ? I believe PC was also the kid’s Godfather.

I’m some what disappointed, I was under the impression Keller was a lock to play for his Uncle/Godfather. I think the BOT was too !

While I like him not bowing down to Shell, how can you not land your nephew/godchild ???

Comment by EMel 06.30.13 @ 1:17 am

Well there’s always the kid from Maria Stein, Ohio.

What’s his name ! Adam Sandler er something !

Comment by EMel 06.30.13 @ 1:20 am

Pitt has a small athletic department for a school its size.
Look at the Ivy league–hell look at Bucknell.
Strip away the football program and Pitts’ athletic teams resemble Duquesne.
Simply put, Pitt is not in the mix for athletics. Not even close. I bet if you put Cyanide Steve’s salary per sport, he comes out as the highest paid AD in the country.
That is absurd!
But hey, someone has to be 109 don’t they!

Comment by Sfpitt 06.30.13 @ 4:05 am

Speaking of Va Tech, he is a story of one of its local commits. This was brought up last fall on this blog how it seemed to be a mystery that he never received an offer in either FB or BB

link to post-gazette.com

Comment by wbb 06.30.13 @ 6:41 am

clarification — never received an offer ‘from Pitt’ ….

Comment by wbb 06.30.13 @ 6:42 am

“I saw a werewolf drinking a pina colada at Trader’s Vic, and his hair was perfect”

– ‘Werewolves of London’ Warren Zevon, 1977

link to triblive.com

Comment by wbb 06.30.13 @ 7:09 am

wbb, Bravo on the Zevon, how appropriate!

Comment by Iron Duke 06.30.13 @ 7:47 am

Odd, how we’ve been competitive with VT. Best win last year.

Call me crazy, but I think we are going to surprise some people in Football this year.

With a better O-line, and strong Tight ends we should be able to control the ball. Finally with a q-b that can throw more than 10 yards, we can go down field once in a while.

With the defense staying on the sidelines, they should be good enough to get some three and outs.

Donald will be playing for a pro contract, linebackers are better and d-backs are strong.

Hopefully, no more deer in the headlights at crunch time.

Comment by gc 06.30.13 @ 7:50 am

Frankcan, thanks for the heads up on young Mr. Freebeck. I know we get scolded for doing this on here, but not a very impressive list of interested schools. Not Stanford, but SAMford…hmmm.

To spin it the other way, at least he’s from South Fla.

Comment by Iron Duke 06.30.13 @ 7:52 am

IMHO, HCPC has known for quite some time (probably a few weeks) that his nephew wasn’t coming to Pitt. I am sure he knew long before the Stanford decision was officially announced. This is why, IMO, he has been actively recruiting another QB –Freebeck? (with a similar rating/potential as Bertke). The plan has always been, IMO, to redshirt the least ready of the two QB recruits so that they will be in different class years. If Chapman eventually gets off without a trial then having these guys who need lots of development time (2-3 years) before being fully ready for prime time is not a big problem. If Chapman winds up permanently dismissed from the team, then there could be a problem this fall but only if both Savage and Voytik were to get injured.

Comment by pitt1972 06.30.13 @ 8:11 am

@Upone, don’t be hatin my constructive criticism if my point actually was, “well taken”. Anyhow, you’re hardly on my radar since I expend most of my efforts with FRANKCAN, now if I can just get him to use that darn “shift” key for upper case letters. LOL, just funnin with you Frankie.

I like hearing the pre-camp optimism from gc, each and every season, hope springs eternal. One important point that he left out of that post however is that HCPC & Co. will have one full year of coaching under their belts at Pitt, which will be huge in regards to improved coaching this season. Many have complained of the House hire, due to the no DC experience issue but that in itself adds continuity to the defense utilizing the same coach stepping up into that DC position. The same personality, coaching style and familiarity trumps the anticipated learning curve at the DC position, IMO.

The players also will benefit from having the same staff and system in place for two seasons in a row and that hasn’t been the case for three seasons. Consider that ONLY the upcoming RS Seniors on this squad have had that advantage in their Pitt careers and it is pretty amazing that Pitt has been able to keep their heads above water in the W-L% during that troubled period. That is probably going to be the ultimate wild card affecting the unknown upside potential of this squad in 2013.

I’m also encouraged by the fact that with the Pirates 1st place standing in the division, the hometown crowds have come out to support the Bucs. As many others on this blog have suggested, the cure for the empty yellow seats of Heinz Field at Pitt games has a simple solution, just win baby, win!

If Coach Chryst can get that equation correctly calculated, then many of Pitt’s current issues will simply fade into ancient memory soon enough.

Comment by Dr. Tom 06.30.13 @ 9:31 am

Tom, glad I’m not on your radar and you can shove your comments about my posts up your… H2P! UPone

Comment by UPone 06.30.13 @ 9:58 am

nice article wbb… that is a headscratcher because he seems to be a ‘high character’ kid as well? Maybe they just missed him in their first year in part because a guy like Fraud did not have him targeted??

Keller Chryst, when you think about it, it is understandable this the kid is not coming here…. I mean its Stanford… education (Ivy league west), location, and just a bit of a reputation developing great quarterbacks.

The fact they are family could also play a role… often for ‘professional’ growth it is better separate family in terms of ‘working directly’ for an uncle.

his father is nearby and the HC of St 49ers was Stanford coach, etc. etc…. so he will be plugged into that football scene as well.

I personally would have been shocked if he did come to Pitt… and the fact he did not visit is less a slap in the face… if he had visited and there would hav been all the buzz about him visiting, interviewed (“so, how was Pitt?”)… and then he says no…

Better off that he tells a probable true story which is Stanford wanted him, he just finished a camp there… precisely as it is been spun in this article.

link to espn.go.com

Comment by Pittscript 06.30.13 @ 11:08 am

Here is a PG article about Nordy with quotes from area college presidents. Isn’t it refreshing when these people actually provide quotations about things they really know about (and should know about) as opposed to embarrassing themselves when they try to take on NCAA issues.

link to post-gazette.com

Comment by wbb 06.30.13 @ 2:11 pm

Now if the outgoing president at OSU would have limited himself to talking about things he knows about, academics and popcorn, he wouldn’t be outgoing!

Comment by wbb 06.30.13 @ 2:13 pm

Thanks for the Nordy article wbb! It makes a person proud to be an alum! UPone

Comment by UPone 06.30.13 @ 2:45 pm

lighten up francis..i mean upone.. nobody on the blog needs to shove anything, anywhere..

Comment by goalie44 06.30.13 @ 5:38 pm

link to collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com

Can’t see this kid keeping himself in shape for a whole year before playing. My guess is; we never hear of him again.

Comment by EMel 06.30.13 @ 6:08 pm

Academically as well !

Comment by EMel 06.30.13 @ 6:09 pm

EMel, looking at the comments after that article seems to imply that the word has gotten around about Shell’s recent history.

Comment by Dr. Tom 06.30.13 @ 7:11 pm

not surprised wvu is interested…

Comment by goalie44 06.30.13 @ 7:13 pm

Pitt gets another QB verbal. Wade Freebeck from ou of Florida. Had offers from Akron, Marshall, South Florida, and it also appears, Florida(?). 3 star on 247 and Rivals.

Comment by Mailman 06.30.13 @ 7:27 pm

ESPN has Freebeck as a 4 star, and Florida did offer.

Comment by Moe Greene 06.30.13 @ 7:31 pm

Here is Freebeck’s Rival link – 3 star. Scout has him non-rated.

Don’t know if he is better than Bertke, but believe this is a significant pick-up, if no other reason, he is from Florida

link to rivals.yahoo.com

Comment by wbb 06.30.13 @ 7:43 pm

Its official now with the Freebeck committ.

Chapman will be kicked off the team.

No college team keeps 5 scholarship QB’s on the roster. 4 scholarship QB’s on roster is typical.

Comment by Pitt.Dan83 06.30.13 @ 7:48 pm

Savage will be gone next year … would hope if they were going to drop Chapman, they would have done so by now … and not dependent upon how many QB commits they get.

It would seem that Freebeck was waiting on Keller Chryst’s decision.

Comment by wbb 06.30.13 @ 7:55 pm

2014 roster of scholarship QB’s is:
Anderson, Voytik, Bertle, Freebeck (Chapman? is kicked off team)

Paul Chryst knew Keller Chryst decision long ago. The chance of landing Keller was slim to none.
wbb, what are you smoking to think Pitt had a chance to land Keller.

Comment by Pitt.Dan83 06.30.13 @ 8:05 pm

Dan 83, where is it that I said that? I never thought that.

All I know is the Keller committed to SU, and 2 days later, Freebeck committed here

Comment by wbb 06.30.13 @ 8:20 pm

nice insights and links wbb, thanks.

Comment by Pittscript 06.30.13 @ 9:18 pm

As per the Directors Cup, and some comments I made about it.

First, much like the star ratings and recruiting rankings, the Directors Cup is only a barometer.

No one accused me, but I would like to state on my own, I did not conveinently leave out that it goes by 20 teams, or up to 20 teams to get the scores that make up the rankings.

I knew that going in, and wondered why we don’t have 20 ath. sports for men and women.

Actually, it brings up another point of our Athletic Director.

Why do we only have 18 sports? The university is rolling in money for research, SP said donations are up in sports. The university is supposed to be an academic juggernaught and powerhouse now.

(Cue in known excuses for eveything Pitt at this time. Not enough money, not enough enrollment, urban campus, not enough alumi, not enough donations, cold weather school, pro sports town, private school, pubic school, state related school, private school with public ties. etc. etc.)

Anyhow, figured I’d do a little research just for kicks. So along with the school name, next to them will be their Directors Cup rank, #of varsity sponsored sports and undergrad enrollment of the school and pub or priv.

SCHOOL—-D.C.Rank—–Sports—–Enrlmnt–Pub-Pr.

N. Car.—–8———–25——–18,579.—PUB.
N.D.——–9———–22——–8,371.—-prv.
Fla. St.—-11———-19——–31,851.—PUB.
DUKE——–12———-24——–6,484.—-prv.
Virginia—-20———-25——–10,951.—PUB.
NC ST.——34———-21——–26,176.—PUB.
VA TECH—–36———-21——–23,859.—PUB.
Louis.——38———-21——–15,893.—PUB.
Syracuse—-39———-18——–14,798.—prv.
Maryland—-44———-19——–26,826.—PUB.
Clemson—–52———-17.5——16,562.—PUB
Miami——-71———-17.5——10,368.—prv.
Ga. Tech—-74———-17——–14,527.—PUB.
B.C.——–76———-23——–9,088.—-prv.
WAKE FOR.—98———-18——–4,815.—-prv.
PITT——–109———18——–18,427.—Hybrd?

Well, one could use these numbers to make many different arguments, pros and cons, and all of the whys???

It does seem to show that schools with 20 or more sports are higher.

However, what is the excuse for being last (9th out of 9) with the schools that have under 20??

Ok, schools with the same # of sports or less.

Last again, 6th out of 6.

Can’t be enrollment, we’re 6th out of 15 in the ACC.

Public/Private, good number of both ahead of us in standings and number of sports.

Can’t be population. We’re 4th or 5th in city size, 3rd or 4th metro.

Could it be who has been running the ath. dept.?

Is it just a matter of ath. money?

Surely with the ACC money coming in, we should see improvement in our athletics, and should be able to field a couple more sports.

Perhaps mens and womens lacrosse, seems to be a popular sport across the nation, especially in ACC country.

Look out Wake, we’re setting our sights on you!!

*info from ACC wikipedia
**17.5, Clemson and Miami only do diving, no swmg.

P.S. if this chart becomes a mess when I hit submit, kindly dismiss and move on. I’m not trying again.

P.P.S. Gettysburg fantastic. Too many people but what are you gonna do, 150th anniv.. Left family out there, working tmrw and heading back out Tues.

Comment by Dan 06.30.13 @ 10:31 pm

I guess it came out somewhat readable.

I had all the columns lined up though.

Why does it decide to smoosh my columns together and delete some of my dashes to do this.

Oh well.

Comment by Dan 06.30.13 @ 10:32 pm

Here’s your interesting factoid for the day.

Losing steel industry, population decline, and on and on, one would think no one is left in W.Pa.

Here is the governments Metro Statistical Data on cities with “metro” areas. There are 381 metro areas according to the gov., Pittsburgh is still 22nd in the country.

Still a massive amount of people in W.Pa..

link to en.wikipedia.org

Comment by Dan 06.30.13 @ 10:46 pm

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