Since Chas and Justin are doing such a great job with the day to day recruiting news coming out of the Southside I thought I’d chip in a bit with some background info I have picked up over the last two years…
Now that recruiting has heated up a bit and there have things to discuss here’s some info that pertains to Chryst and his 2013 & 2014 recruiting. First off, if you didn’t already know, this staff doesn’t formally offer and/or accept a commitment unless;
1) They have seen the recruit in person in a game or in a PITT camp (preferably both) and visited with him personally;
2) They have visited the recruit’s HS and talked with his family, teachers and football staff there and;
3) Have had done a detailed and complete academic and personal background review on the recruit by coaches and members of the PITT Athletic Support Staff.
Let’s be honest here – they are looking at arrest records and asking about previous legal problems for any over 18 also. How far they can legally go into that depends on the privacy laws of the state the recruit lives in. All that takes some time especially with kids who might rise up on the recruiting big board after the camps.
So this is also what Chryst said he would do right after he was hired. This is what fans who complain about “slow play” recruiting don’t understand. It is once they have seen and visited with the kid, determine they actually want him, then feel comfortable about him actually wanting to be at PITT with the standards listed above and do they start the pressure.
That “him actually wanting to be here” is a key component now and one that seems to drive fans crazy because it entails having the recruit take visits elsewhere and then making a solid decision. The last thing Chryst wants is a disgruntled player on the roster who has second thoughts about his choice and thus will transfer later. That screws everyone in the long run.
If PITT truly wants him and see him being part of the plans the staff have, and the recruit truly wants to be at PITT then that player will most probably see decent playing time over his career. That is very important if you are building a program that will be strong in future years also.
BTW – the whole emphasis on academics and doing new and ‘extended’ research into the recruit’s background has been specifically mandated by the PITT administration as was their promise to change the way they do business after the Sports Illustrated scandal broke.
“Before this rash of arrests, Pitt had no procedure for screening football recruits for past trouble with the law. But after Knox’s arrest Pitt’s athletic department implemented a new policy requiring coaches to seek more detailed background information on potential recruits.
“This evaluation is not a legal criminal background check,” the school said in a statement. “Rather, it is a checklist of questions that attempts to gain greater knowledge of the behavior and citizenship of an individual prospect from a variety of people.”
I don’t think PITT fans realized just how much of an impact that article (regardless of how simplistic it was) and the revelations it held shook up the PITT Administration and Board of Directors. It took the problems that the program was having out of the football only arena and made it national news in a different way.
That article was printed on March 2nd 2011, but the background here is that Pederson and Nordenberg were approached by the writers for interviews and were briefed on the findings some months earlier… so PITT knew the bomb was going to drop and started making changes. Part of those changes was a different approach to recruiting than was in place previously.
The program of closer scrutiny into the recruit’s academic and personal pasts didn’t really get formalized and on the ground until about the middle the 2012 recruiting cycle. I believe it had to be formalized and reviewed/approved by the University’s legal staff before it could become actual athletic department policy.
It really kicked in for the class of 2013 recruits. So, as much as it seems like all this is because of Paul Chryst’s character and his wish to have a straighter and less problematic (and more respected) program, keep in mind that it is also required by the administration.
As always there will be exceptions and acts done by recruits after they arrive at PITT that the staff has no control over. That happens at every school and with every HC. PITT’s deal is to take stronger and more proactive steps to minimize the chances of that happening here in the future. That takes longer time than just getting the kid into the facilities and trowing an offer at him. We’ll see how well it turns out.
So, we can bitch and moan about a team full of ‘good guys and scholars’, and we’ll never actually have that, not being the formula for winning football games but all we have to do is look at the last two years (three really) and ask ourselves if all the problems with arrests, suspensions and transfers are worth the sub-.500 seasons we’ve produced.
I’ve no problem so far with Paul Chryst’s recruiting. To me it is hard to really judge the value of a recruiting class until they have actually acclimated to college life and college football and done something to show their scholarship worth.
In truth I’m more concerned about his game day coaching at this point and we’ll have a new season to dwell on and discuss that soon.
I don’t have concerns about Chryst gameday coaching as I do with his recruiting.
If the recruiting was implemented as you say and in a previous post, Pitt would not have gone after Robert Foster. To my knowledge, he still hasn’t cleared NCAA clearinghouse due to GPA/SAT.
On the other hand, look at Martin from Harrisburg the #2 RB in PA. Pitt was the 13th school to offer him. The 1st to offer was Rutgers (who offered 3 months b4 Pitt) and he chose Rutgers. If Pitt can’t be 1st to offer to top recruits in PA, then “Houston, we have a problem”.
We will see come 2014 season. This season Chryst will get another pass regardless of his record.
Here are some facts about Sheard:
– he was considered as an exemplary person/student/atlete throughout his career at Pitt
– he was voted team captain AFTER the incident
– despite throwing a guy through a glass door in the presence of police officers, he was let off only having to pay damages (knowing full well that this guy was a racist instigator)
– he graduated on time and became part of the NFL rookie team, and is very well liked up here in Cleveland
Bottom line — you could have had the FBI, CIA, SSS and the Royal Mounted Police vetting Sheard while he was being recruited and he would have passed with flying colors … and this incident still occurred!!
Now Wanny did recruit Knox and Peeler back in 2010, but their problems were well known (it didn’t take any excessive background check to know these thing) .. and of course the gamble failed miserably.
Nonetheless, looking at the character of the recruits are admirable, and hopefully Pitt will be a very competitive ACC team with players reminiscent of the Naval Academy (WHOOPS – BAD EXAMPLE.)
But just remember this … two Pitt FB coaches were let go in the past 10 years to the delight of many on this website due to the fact that they supposedy could not bring this program to ‘the next level.’
kind of player the ones he really wanted,
but if he is takeing less talented players
to make the AD look good .
if he has to pass on a good player becuse of a rule that might be to harsh.
then we are doomed for 6 and 6 season for ever
i dont like this news.
that might be why TG left if so i under stand
this does piss me off a bit.
Nordy and Steve took their one shot by placing their trust and a high salary on a Fraud … and now, they’re content with the handsome, annual payout and stability offered by the ACC.
Personally have no problem with the admins policy in respect to recruits because it minimizes the number of bad apples in your basket and ensures a healthy team mindset, composition and striving to be the best student athlete you can be.
As for HCPC, I suspect he learned a lot last year in regard to being a HC. I too look to see if he improves in the areas of game management, preparedness and the multitude of ancillary duties a HC deals with.
With or without the admins policy the most important thing for Pitt football is to win. Win more games than you lose and nest season win more than the last.
YALE–Football and hockey bar brawl. Arrests
HARVARD–Huge cheating scandal. Involved Hoopers.
PRINCETON–Former soccer coach. Child porn.
DARTMOUTH–Rugy rape, Hooper intent to distribute.
CORNELL–Wrestler rape.
COLUMBIA–Football, hate crimes.
Only two, because their names, Penn and Brown are ambiguous, I didn’t find any during my 5 minute Google search.
Penn, everything came up Penn St. (LOL) and Brown, well, you can only imagine. I’m sure I could have done a refined search, but, I think this enough.
It’s all over society as we creep further and further towards the abyss!! LOL
– Auburn won a national title in 2011, and its coach is already fired
– Big time programs like USC and OSU has been placed on probation … and UNC and Miami are sure to follow
– the alleged bastion of NCAA compliance not only had more arrests over the past decade (than Pitt), its adminsitrators committed the most heinous deeds ever associated with college sports
When schools starting raking in annual revenue around $100 million dollars, priorities change.
1) no amount of background checks would have predicted Sheard’s behavior on that one evening
2) Wanny was aware of issues of a couple of his recruits (no background check needed because it was well documented) and apparently the AD had no problems with it.
Knox had a very sorted background …. but, according to Rivals, here is a partial list of schools that had not only recruited him but OFFERED him … Wake Forest, Maryland, Boston College, Michigan and Penn St.
that the reason he left was becuse the AD was
sticking his nose into football to far and giveing TG a hard time.
it is my guess and just a guess that pederson
said said you cant recruit this player or that player.
and TG felt he could not build a winner that way
and so he left.
if that is so i would have left also but i would
have had a team meeting with my players i would not have left like a theaf in the night.
may be pitt wants it so cleab that it is a pain and we will never win and they dont care
so they say do what you can with hand cuffs on
Getting to really know your potential recruits by meeting their families, seeing them in their natural habitat and getting to know them as people beyond just as athletes can’t hurt in the least when recruiting.
Does it limit the recruit pool, probably, but ID your priorities and be happy with the results you get. Sure Pitt will still have it’s share of behavior problems with their players but the policies inacted above are steps in the correct direction if you want to minimize those issues going forward.
“As always there will be exceptions and acts done by recruits after they arrive at PITT that the staff has no control over. That happens at every school and with every HC.”
Sheard’s action fell under that precept – however your stating that the Sheard incident was the main issue in that SI article is incorrect. Sheard was used as an example of the troubles the PITT program had but the writers also included the other three violent incidents we had in 2010. However, that article was going to be written regardless of if PITT had player problems or not – it would just have been another school.
The discussion of the Sheard-Douglas-Coleman-Knox incidents was a lead-in to the subject matter of the article which was the amount of players on the PITT roster, and on other Top 25 teams, who had previous arrest records and also that other schools, not just PITT, didn’t have strong procedures in place to look more closely at that prior to recruitment.
For the record I have never blamed any HC for individual actions taken by players because there is such a thing as independent action and free will – which sometimes leads to poor decisions on the players part.
Lets be honest here – and I was hoping that readers could read between the lines a bit also. Those recruiting formalities listed above are designed to serve more than one master. First, and I believe this, it is to get kids who have the character to succeed on and off the field at PITT. I understand that an previous arrest doesn’t preclude recruitment but that would trigger an even deeper looking into.
But they also meet demands from the Admin and BoT that changes be made in the football program. In all my conversations and reading posts, comments, etc… I have seen or hear anyone who didn’t think this type of oversight was a good thing. Plus those policies look good to the alumni, public and media. Now, if that was the only reason they existed I’d be really cynical but it isn’t and has been pretty much not even made public much.
It isn’t like if a recruit doesn’t meet our standards he’ll not be able to get a scholarship or education along with playing football elsewhere either. There are always other places to go.
Yet, I don’t remember anyone being concerned (including the AD) when he comitted … in fact, we were thrilled that we beat the likes of Michigan and Penn ST for a 4-start recruit
I think if Chryst sets it up right, and we start winning and stop the headlines for bad behavior, the 4 star and 5 stars will follow. No one on this blog needs reminding of the state of Pitt Football,especially over the last 5 years.
These policies are not to have only scholars on the roster but to have student/athletes who will be able to remain in the program for the full ride. Contrary to some fans beliefs very few of the kids are ‘dumb as rocks’ as they think and as they have been stating Foster is. If a kid meets the clearing house standards and the is willing to work hard off the field then he’s an ast and can do what is needed to stay eligible.
Of course the opposite is true – we’ve had at least two kids on the roster who went to prestigious private prep schools who didn’t do the work needed to stay eligible and had to sit out a year.
We’ve had many players come into spring and summer camps not having the SAT tests passed yet then they met it and had a full career and with a degree at PITT. That happens with at least one or two kids a year.
In effect these policies are skewed way over to the side of what kind of personal make up the recruit has and what his chances to succeed at PITT are.
i dont know but if it makes it harder on your coach then outehr coachs then it it is not his fult if he does not win.
do we want to win i am not saying er should recruit jail birds.
but we should be able to tecruit the same players as the outher schools.
i want a winning team not a sunday school
i want a even playing field i dont want pitt to be behind the eight ball.
this is abought wining games not little sisters of the poor.
i think pitt should be able to recruit the same
players as outhers if not drop dpwn a level
you eather want to be a major player or you dont
but if you are being held to a higer standerd then all the rest and i mesn the ND the dukes the ucla then you wont win it is not fair to pitt.
i am in the middle of a bunch of outher things
Bottom line for me is that I cannot envision another coach who could be doing better here right now. We saw what the high profile, ‘marketing campaign’ approach was and that was Fraud…
PC is a man with a plan and the feedback from every player and coach about these guys is positive.
Just have to see how it translates to the field… after the last months of revelations it is now understandable why Pitt teams could lose to low level schools.
One thing that will be certain is that Chryst teams will not be so fragile as to lose to such schools in the future. Whether he can get above 6-8 wins and ‘get to the next level’ definitely yet to be seen.
IF PC’s team executes to expectation this season we will get our ‘fair’ share of those folks come February 2014.
Again, don’t know why i bring it up, but thought a group of fellow Panthers should at least know, since the only part of the story ever discussed was Jason Douglas.
If all that you say is true, why wasn’t KK kicked off the team? Charges were dropped for Carswell, Williams and KK in exchange for community service.
What are your thoughts on Chapman? His hearing is 6/27. What should his discipline be?
Now, you tell me why he wasn’t put in jail or charged with more than a misdemeanor, but in fact, was only responsible to pay for damages?
I can tell you this for sure (and maybe Chas can confirm) … I never read anything but total positives about his character and work ethic from any of his Brown teammates and coaches in the local Cleveland papers.
link to usatoday.com
also reporting lb Quintin Wirginis from Fox Chapel.
328 pounda that is a good pick up
if true i am on cloud 9
if you check some sites list him as a dt some as a ot.
they do the same with the boxen kid some have him at DE some at OG.
but a 328 pound dt makes my day.
better and better.
i want more give me more let it rain commits
Pretty good highlight reel on Wirginis, too:
I’ll say this. From some of what you see in that highlight film, the kid has a motor that absolutely does not quit. I’m not sure exactly how he’ll translate at this level and may be a bit of a project, but you can seldom ever go wrong bringing high-energy players like that into a program.
as a 6 foot 4 290 pound center
but DT or center i am just glad to have him
and 1 more QB.
we lose 18 SR this year so do we take 18 commits this year or more does any one know?
However, I believe that there isn’t a set in stone menu of punishments v incidents, nor should there be. If this was KK Smith’s first mistake as a Panther as he’s been a positive hardworking player then certainly he should be able to continue.
If this was Carswell’s 2nd or 3rd indiscretion (remember that we fans see the tip of the iceberg with what goes on behind closed doors with the program) then maybe that went into the dismissal. We really don’t and most probably won’t know the exact fats behind these decisions… and of course the HC may decide to reinstate Carswell if they think that would be in both parties’ best interests. However since Carswell was “dismissed” vice “indefinitely suspended” the odd are against him being on the roster again.
I’m sure attitude and work ethic go into these decisions also as does a bit of depth chart justice. Point is I know from pretty vast experience that one hat doesn’t fit all people when they are standing on the carpet in front of you.
I also believe, and have written volumes here on this, that whatever the judicial system determines for an outcome of charges before them means nothing toward the individual discipline a separate institution might levy. The fact that charges are dismissed doesn’t erase what happened in the first place.
What should happen in that the institution, in this case PITT football, should gather all the facts made available by the local authorities, conduct an investigation on their own (and this can take an hour or weeks depending) and then come to a disciplinary award according to THEIR OWN rules, regulations, standards of conduct and policies.
That should cut both ways as long as everything is done in detail and is fairly applied. The institution may well look at what the state has and determine, regardless of the state’s outcome, that a small or no punishment is awarded. They can agree with the court’s decision and reinstate the player also.
But each case should be taken on its own merits – do all that and be consistent in acting and transparent (internally as far as you can without infringing on privacy rules) regarding your decisions and there will be not complaints from the program members.
The point is that the state judicial system does not run the University of Pittsburgh’s football program internal personnel dealings.
A reminder: The University is restricted by Federal law to discuss publicly any internal punishments for any specific players unless it is generic, such as “non-adherence to team rules”… that’s why I say we fans see the tip of the iceberg when it comes to this stuff. Most infractions don’t end up in formal suspensions or dismissals but you can be sure they are attributed to the player’s body of work and factor into disciplinary decisions.
A problem child with a crap attitude may get one chance. A leader and positive kid may be afforded more slack. That’s why when we see a kid transferring or being ‘asked not to return’ it is a good chance that the staff just doesn’t want to deal with that player any longer.
Of course kids transfer for other reasons such as playing time or not feeling comfortable with a coaching change but a good staff will press that and make it seem the player’s decision instead of a dismissal from the team – which is what yanking a scholarship for cause actually is. It just looks better for the player that way.
too bad our AD didn’t apply the same scrutiny for 2 of his recent coaching hires?
Isn’t it something that the incident in your post immediately above occurred 2 1/2 years and 3 head coaches after the incidents in the SI article?
But the same AD!!!
When is this guy ever going to be held accountable for anything?
For myself, these days in the USA seems to be a free-for-all, do whatever you want, and rarely suffer any consequences society.
I would never subject myself to Facebook and Twitter …. but I believe the anonyminity actually bring about true thoughts and feelings ,,, just my 2 cents.
However, I do trust Nordenberg and I have a sense that the BoT works well toward the University’s greater good so maybe they know more than we do.
But if you separate out only the football program than it could be head scratching.
BUT, IMO the AD can’t be held accountable for specific acts of the players – he is at least two supervisory levels removed from that kid.
With the stability and increased payouts that the ACC will provide, Nordy has to be thrilled with the state of athletics. We fans of course are different animals … our bottom line are W/Ls.
My big issue quite frankly is this …. twice since 2006, I have been laid-off despite the fact that I received very favorable job performance reviews. In fact, I was laid off in 2006, despite receiving ‘excellent’ performance reviews 2 years in a row … not Good or Above Average … Excellent (I assure you I am not making that up.)
Meanwhile, Pedersen, who admittedly did a great job in his first stint here, commits the same gross error as he did at Nebraska which led to his firing .. he was totally unprepared to replace a coach he fired. And to make matters worse, he has to end up lobbying his boss into paying $600,000 more than what he was budgeted to hire a guy who thumbed his nose at Pitt 11 months later!
And does he get fired for this (like you and me would) …. no, he gets extended 5 years and comes out smelling like a rose!
You’ll never know just how much I resent this piece of crap of an AD we have!
Does anyone else think Kentucky’s 2014 class is a little more then just great recruiting? I don’t care how good of a recruiter Stoops is. You have the doormat of the SEC coming off of losing season. Why are kids flocking to that program? Something just does not smell right to me. Maybe I am wrong, but I predict NCAA sanctions down the road for Kentucky.