Realist side.
All you have to do is look at the number of committs to date.
End of story.
If you look at history of commits, very few change there mind after committing to a school unless there is a coaching change.
Therefore, commits to date matter.

But, your pessimist side really sounds like a realist. You forgot to add, we got Holtz because of the PSU debacle also. PSU, the gift that keeps on giving.

Fortunately Chryst doesn’t give a damn about either the optimist or the pessimist. I expect he’ll do his best regardless…………

Mtoolmn: I agree. If Chryst cares what we think we’re screwed. The question is whether or not he’ll succeed. If effort and desire were the only qualifcations for success in recruiting, we’d be fine. There’s a lot more to it.

“If you look at history of commits, very few change there mind after committing to a school unless there is a coaching change.
Therefore, commits to date matter.”

That’s just not true anymore. The number of kids decommitting goes up every year. Hell, Bama lost a kid to FSU the day after they won the title. Look at all the kids that fled from USC last recruiting period. Wake me up on signing day.

Pabs,
The number is very small. Less than 5% change their minds after committing to a school if there is no coaching change. That is 1 of 20 at the most.

So, if you are hoping for kids to change their mind, we are doomed. Just look at the remaining pool of uncommitted and lets try to get the best we can.

Its true 1 recruit to date is behind relative to other schools at this point; but it isn’t really behind compared to what Pitt did historically by this time of year under Wannstadt. If there aren’t half a dozen or so commits by Labor Day/FSU game then it will be time to begin to be concerned.

jj more commited to rutgers and he has not filed
papers to leave pitt yet.
well we have 3 to give now.

Realistic: If PSU was not sanctioned, Pitt doesn’t get Johnson or Boyd. In fact, OC/Recruiting Coordinator Rudolph, from the same high school, was on Johnson constantly and many thought he was a Pitt shoo-in. He took a visit to PSU and verbaled before he left the Valley.

Realistic: this past year, Chryst and company also started slowly but finshed reasonably well … but not great by any means

Realistic: this staff needs more recruiters and a presence in Florida

Agreed wbb.

Since Justin wants us to pick, I’ll pick somewhat optimistic.

Wasn’t a bad year last year was it?? Especially for 1st year?? I may be wrong, but didn’t some services have us rated #38, #42, #46 or something like that??

Ya, services smervices, but at least we weren’t ranked #109 or #115.

To those that are on Chryst a bit. I’d be right there with you…………………if this was his 3rd or 4th year.

Right now, I gotta say, “we’ll see”.

It’s like one of the fellas getting on Chryst for some gameday calls. It was his first year as a head coach.

He makes some of those calls in year 3, sure, I’m right on him him.

Also, one of the hoops guys will say, you got on Dixon a bit, but Chryst gets a pass!!!

Chryst doesn’t get a pass from me. But to say ridiculous things after the guys 1st year, is a little bizarre to me.

More than anything else, he needs to win. Win with what he has now, and has recruited.

A good start would be picking off Florida State at home and beating Notre Dame. Those would be two nice ones to get, win your fair share, and don’t get embarrassed in any losses.

And for anyone thinking I’m giving him a pass, I will say this, this is year 2!!!

Don’t care about new quarterback or new conference, this IS year 2!!!

Need to show some signs of progress overall, so the fans can see the ship is heading in the right direction.

Dan you nailed it i am with you.

agree with the guys right above.

bottom line is they have a solid season (6-7 wins), play a hard, clean football that is physical, and people sense the program is cleaned up and players are now serious/focused players…(i.e. not into having heroin deals going down in their living room), then the recruiting will take care of itself. Anyone who is reasonable wants to wait and see what Pitt is about.

contrarily, PSU is actually a known commodity… 95,000 plus per game; football program top of social ladder on campus; great academics; NFL coach… bowl games by end of your career there.

We will get the recruits if we are strong… not if others are weak.

PS… Johnson/boyd, etc… yes PSU was first but they were heavily recruited by recruiting demi-God from Ohio State as were others… and they are here so the coaches are doing something right.

will close at camps

Pirates win b2b 1-0 games against the Tigers, how many series in a row have they won? The good news is they aren’t getting a lot of press – so the pressure won’t be as intense has it has been,

Oh – HCPC will have A great recruiting class!

JJ Moore transfering to Rutgers.

I find it interesting nothing on Pantherlair, etc.
Yet, on the Rutgers rivals site, it says,
“When JJ ANNOUNCED in the spring his intention of transferring…. closer to Long Island…”

Really, did I miss the announcment. Seems everyone at Pantherlair and Scout-Pitt never got the message either.
Why??
Dixon trying to buy time to land other recruits??

Pitt now has 3 scholarships. They barely can run a practice and have to hope nobody gets hurt to be able to run a practice.
smh

@Pitt.Dan83, must be a conspiracy.

Am I wrong here or not ?

We are hoping (faith they call it) that PC can coach em up with what he manages to recruit.

Cause if you don’t know by now, he’s not going to be a great recruiter.

We had that with DW and a lot of you wanted him gone.

So be it, he’s gone….. you got PC and SP.

Hey but at least…..it isn’t Mike Heyward. (was that the guy SP planned to replace an iconic figure in Pitt history who just happened to win the most games in 3 years since our latest Glory Years)

Fire SP and bring in DW as AD !!!

Rectify a fucking wrong !

It will do wonders for the Alumni base !

DW is the only guy who can sell Pitt. Chryst can’t recruit and that’s fine. I’m concerned with his inability to seal the deal on the field. Syracuse and ND last year….

Wanny burned a big bridge on how he left the program and let the coaches diss Pitt with recruits. No thanks on Wanny as if he is incompetent as a head coach he will really screw up the program as AD.

Having served a church in Mt. Lebanon in the 1950’s I know a wee bit about their “culture”. So,, for what its worth, I will venture an opinion pn Alex Bookser’s recruiting choices. to wit: Pitt, Northwestern and Virginia are viable choices for serious student athletes. The rest for one reason or the others would be poor selections. Personally, I hope he chooses the former. Playing under a person with the integrity of Paul Chryst would be a wise lifetime privilege. Rev. George from Columbus

Hindsight says it was a mistake to fire Wanny, but most of us thought differently at the time. He failed to win the big ones, and the off the field episodes were a black eye. If he doesn’t get the upset at WVU he was probably gone earlier.

What’s done is done. Wanny not likely to make a good AD.

PC hiring a crackerjack recruiter would help.

If Nordy hasn’t fired SP by now, not likely to happen ever. Also, not likely that SP fired Wanny without Nordy’s blessing.

Give Chryst a chance. He is a quality guy.

It was no secret that recruiting was our shiny new head coach’s big weakness when he was hired. The fact that Wiscy didn’t use him, their OC for Pete’s sake, on their recruiting A-team speaks volumes.

Jury’s still out on Chryst’s “We don’t sell, we just offer” approach. Or maybe it’s in and we don’t like the verdict?

Justin’s right when he (like me) hopes he’s wrong, and PC can fix this weakness.

Most, if not all, of Pitt’s top targets are still on the board. If most of them start to go elsewhere, then that is the time to be concerned.

Teams like BC and Duke may have 9/10 commits by now, but something tells me that if Pitt had those same 9/10 recruits, this OvP discussion would be about the amount of 2/3* and “MAC-Level” recruits in the class.

Duke’s 9 commits average 2.3 stars.
BC’s 10 commits average an even 3.0

I think it is worth mentioning that PSU’s pitch right now has to be different. With only 15 scholarships, they are likely telling recruits to commit early or someone else will get your spot, and since there are so few, kids are giving a verbal. I think that has a lot to do with them having 9 verbals already.

@srb, absolutely!!!!!!! Couldn’t have said it better. It would immediately go to the 2-3 star, MAC level talk. Without question!! You sir, pay attention to this site, and nailed it.

Hindsight says it was a mistake to fire Wanny??

Not my hindsight.

The way it was handled, sure, SP had his hands all over it, of course it was handled poorly.

Chryst may end up being a bust, but, no Wanny nostalgia here.

Chetthejet wrote … Wanny burned a big bridge on how he left the program and let the coaches diss Pitt with recruits.

This has to be one of the silliest statements. So Wanny told all of his assistants to call recruits and tell them Pitt is not for them?

Whether you think Wanny’s firing was justified or not .. (so far it looks like a big mistake) …. as I said here many times, the big error was the rehiring(s).

So far it looks like a big mistake???

“The Glory Days of Dave Wannstedt”???????

This is what we’ve sunk too for expectations??

LOL

Can we just leave it here with the Wanny stuff??

I really don’t want to have to type the litany of mediocrities. I will if I have too, but I don’t think anyone wants to see them again.

You don’t fire a coach just off of the best 3-year run the program has had for 30 years without being pretty sure you have someone in the wings that will come in and keep the program rolling.

That is a MISTAKE

42-31 overall. That’s a 58% winning percentage. 24-18 in the Big Least. That’s a 57% winning percentage.

If you’re not going to use all 6 years, and look only at the last three years as a “trend”, then someone could say, ok, I’ll only look at the last year for “my” trend, which was 7-5.

With all the great recruiting, he couldn’t even win the BE championship, the poorest BCS football conference there ever was, in any of his 6 years??

What does that tell ya?? Can’t win, even with great players.

Not to mention Ohio, Bowling Green, Oregon St. etc. etc..

In 6 years, his teams were only ranked in the top 25, ONE time at the end of the year. That’s 1 time!!

Mediocrity personified!!!!

Deer in the headlights as a head coach anywhere he’s been.

If you want to say, SP was not prepared with the next coach, I will agree with you on that, looking at it from that point, sure, then a huge mistake.

The firing itself, no, it was time to go.

How many years should you get to win the Big Least?? 8? 10? 12?

He was and is a good Pitt guy. Wonderful.

All in all, I will agree. Firing him without having a plan was a huge mistake.

In Wanny’s first 3 years in the BE, WVU, Lousiville and Rutgers each had their best 3 year run in the history of their programs. In his last 3 years, Cincy had its best 3 years. USF and UConn also had its best years although, in fairness, both have a very brief history.

All the above is true … look it up!

Wanny by no means was a top coach but he did have a solid, secure program.

Can Pitt do better? yes

Will they do better? who knows, but so far, a definitive NO

@@@@@@@@@@@

PC needs four years to be properly evaluated. Recruiting
gets better by winning games and building a culture of trust.
Let’s agree on one issue the star system ranking recruits
is deeply flawed.

Also PC inherited a program in total disarray. The malcontents
have exited and the building has begun

I am an optimist about the culture cahnge and the eventual performance results. Looking for a better year this year even with the better competition. If the results aren’t great…I will accept a good with a lot of effort. HTP!

JR,
That is just excuses. Sorry.

Year 3 will be critical. If he fails to win more than 6 games than he will get the boot.

Good points above.

The one thing about Wanny for me was the way he left… he didn’t just burn the bridge… he tried to burn down the building along the way. That just cannot be explained away, sorry.

That is where he lost me forever. Talking BS about loyalty to Pitt and then doing everything he could to disrupt and destroy on the way out…

…and this is after they let him have multiple press conferences, decide for himself if he would coach the prep. for the bowl game, coach the bowl game… basically do whatever he wanted… and he chose how he handled that situation.

Never saw a D-1 program bend over backwards so much for a coach they were moving away from.

Too bad because had he left as a mature adult and not gotten so personal… he would be a genuine threat to SP as an AD candidate and there would be significant ground swell happening right now pushing for him to be an AD… and I would have been one of those supports.

Wanny had a great skill set. Unfortunately he is just not a good game day coach. Unfortunately fatal for a HC but his skills and Pitt ties would have made him a strong ‘ambassador’/’sell the program’ type AD and they could have hired good administrative people behind him to manage the day to day.

Absolutely right that is was a huge mistake to move away from him without having a game plan for how to replace him.

I can’t disgaree more about Wanny’s departure.

– He was fired on Dec 7 and less than 10 days later, his replacement was hired

– He showed up at the presser on 12/8 to announce his departure (somenthing he clearly didn’t want to do BUT ABOVE ALL SHOULD HAVE BEEN PUT IN THAT SITUATION) and was overcome with emotion when all of his players showed up on their own.

– He stayed on to coach the team without any inteference, and decided not to travel with the team when they left for AL as not to be a distraction at the bowl … Pitt won 27-10

Actually, all the commotion was caused by Wanny’s supporters (like Fralic) who were enraged by the dismissal.

The negative PR about Wanny being a distraction was much ado about nothing promoted by the anti-Wanny faction .. probably because they were so upset at the hiring process for his predecessor.

BUT ABOVE ALL SHOULD ‘NOT’ HAVE BEEN PUT IN THAT SITUATION

That was a total disgrace for a loyal employee/alum

sorry wbb, there is just no white washing how he handled the situation… I watched the fiasco of him walking in with the players behind him… watched the BS around the weeks of prep. for the bowl game and the would he/woundn’t he coach bullshit… and then the dramatic statement before they left that he would not.

The situation they put him in was coming to him in private and telling him that they were moving on without him and gave him a chance to back away “retire”, whatever, and not be outright fired.

So in hindsight what they should have done was what usually happens to a D-1 Coach,… fire him suddenly and show him the door with security in tow with his box of stuff?

Sorry, on this one I just disagree and I suspect a lot of others do who watched all of that… forgive him sure, he is a good guy who had a bad moment handling things.

but never forget.

You can’t evaluate the decision to fire DW by only stating what we did not accomplish with him as HC. You also have to ask the question “What have we accomplished since we fired DW?” I believe this is the point Wbb is making. If we finish the upcoming season with a third straight losing season, who in their right mind could continue to make the argument that firing DW was good for our program? No one associated with the termination of DW handled the situation well…That includes the Chancellor, the AD, and DW. Pitt is a tough coaching job. We have a fan base that is very passionate about the team in every way except actually showing up at home games. I know, I know, just win and the fans will come. The problem with that is that we never sold out Pitt stadium for a season, including 1976, and the run of 11 win seasons in the early 80’s. I know, Pitt Stadium was a dump and hard to get to. There is always some excuse. DW was an NFL coach for 18 years, 9 as a head coach at the highest level of that profession when he came to Pitt (and in fact has continued to be an NFL coach since leaving Pitt – just imagine what coaching jobs he could have had if he actually had any talent as a coach!) He comes back home to coach Pitt, works at a significant discount (probably a few million dollars less than he could have made in an NFL coordinators job – perhaps that was part of the source of his anger at being fired). DW did not accomplish what a coach of his status should have done while at Pitt. I am a long time FB season ticket holder. I can still remember the sinking feeling I had leaving the stadium after WVU put that beat down on us in DW’s swan song. After that game, I joined the chorus of those calling for a change. The difference is, I still liked DW, I just wanted more success ( like a BCS game.). What I don’t understand is those of you that direct out and out hatred at the man as if he did something to you personally. I’ll sum this up for you: Get over it! DW is not TG. DW has done more to support and better Pitt FB, from the field to the sideline than any of us can ever come close to. He has earned our respect and gratitude. For the record, I love HCPC and believe he can turn this thing around and will be competitive in the ACC. I’m just not sold on the need to have 2 or 3 losing seasons to get there. I don’t call that “getting to the next level”. I call that going backwards.

Look outside the football field lines if you want to understand why DW was fired.

pittscript, what makes you think that (1) DW knew in advance when he was going to leave the program while he was preparing the team for the bowl, but more importantly, (2) what difference did it make??

While he was a lame duck in those 3 weeks:

– a new coach was hired
– and the team was apparently well-prepared since they won by 17

In other words, it was business as usual.

I can remember the media saying that DW should make announcement ASAP and kept thinking … why? He wasn’t making any negative comments, and in the end, he didn’t travel with the team to avoid conflict!

Yet, that still didn’t stop the anti-Wanny faction of making a mountain from a molehill.

And, pittscript, if you think the exit from that presser was ‘scripted’ … you’re out of your freaking mind and need help!

Now understand, there was jusification for firng DW … but I won’t accept the off-the-field activities just because SP said it was … maybe make that especially that SP said it was.

The off-the-field activities was not a trend but only a small part of his 6 year stay at Pitt. Yes, it was embarrassing, and a mandate to clean it all up was indeed necessary … but to fire a loyal alum who just provided the best 3-year run in the last 30 years because of that is nonsense … and columnists from both Pgh papers totally agreed, ridiculing SP when he brought that issue up while hiring Haywood.

Apparently, this was just the first activiity of many to come to bring ridicule to the AD. As it turned out, that one-month fiasco 12/7/10 – 1/11/11, would have been enough for any AD to be sent packing (provided the chancellor cared about FB)

My guess is that there was a power struggle between DW and SP, two guys who just didn’t like each other (based on what I both read and heard) … and SP just happened to be closer to Nordy (which now should be very apparent to anyone).

Since SP returned to Pitt on 11/30/07, Pitt FB went 27-12 before the firing …. and in the end, they ended up paying a coach twice the amount of what DW was making who actually had 1 less win in that period in a lesser conference.

What a freaking joke!!!! SP should thank the stars for the BC AD for bailing his butt out

and oh yea … that new coach who was grossly overpaid showed his true colors less than a year after his hiring

Reed, that case can certainly be made. But, I have to wonder, if we win those key games against Cinn and Uconn and go to two BCS games, does DW get fired all other circumstances the same?

Hopefully Chryst can land at least 6 of the best WPIAL and that to me would be success understanding that kids change their minds continuously.

Frank,
That seems to be a high number and which 6?
There are probably 20 D1 players in wpial and whether they are BCS level is unknown.
The top 6 are:
Grimm, Bookser, Nicholson, Henry, McKenzie, Winovich.
If Pitt get 3 of the 6, that is a great day.
If Pitt strikes out on all 6, expect Chryst to be out the door after 3 years.

HbgFrank, that is the exact point that both of the Pgh papers made (independent of each other)

In the end … it really gets to me how all these columnists and fans can call for a coach to be fired, yet very few think about their replacement. Calling for a firing of a coach who, while maybe not realizing all expectations, has been successful by many measures can be extremely short-minded

I agree Wbb. As fans we are naturally going to make emotional decisions and have knee-jerk reactions. I expect more from the administration. You would think that SP would have learned a thing or two when he fired Solich at Nebraska. If I were a betting man, and I had to choose a single reason DW was fired (record, off field issues, or power struggle with SP), I would go all in on your assertion of a power struggle. I can easily see a former NFL head coach having a healthy ego. Healthy enough to have disdain for the “suits” in the front office. His record in big games and the off-field issues simply provided SP with publicly acceptable reasons to fire DW. SP had to make the move when he did or else he risked DW taking Pitt to a BCS game the following year. Then how could he ever rid himself of this thorn in his side?

It is my experience and opinion that the talent of the football coaches have mostly exceeded the talent of the athletic directors in the past 3 decades at Pitt. I have given credit to SP for his first stint here, but just as for the criticism of all the coaches in that time period, maybe the reason Pitt hasn’t reached that next level is more because of the administration.

If we are concerned with landing 6 WPIAL kids we are in trouble already. The talent level in PA High School Football is ver subpar except for 2 to 3 kids every year. It doesn’t take a genius to understand we need to be in South Florida with a coach with both geographic ties and social ties to that area. Not a far boy from Wisconsin, that’s laughable if you know about Dade and Broward County.

It has been known since last year at this time that the WPIAL will have a better than average pool of top talent this year (’14). Bookser, Nicholsen, MacKenzie, Winovich, Henry, Grimm, and now Hooker are all elite talent judging by the schools recruiting them. All have some level of interest in Pitt; if HCPC can bring in half, he will have the base of a good class.

Funny how those players who had his back quit on him in the WV and Miami games at home. And yes Hafley and Fattuso were calling recruits and exactly pushing Pitt as a University choice. Wanny held a press conference and sulked and was completely out of it as to how he could be fired. You would think after Chicago and Miami he would have learned that lesson.

I heard Winovich is announcing today – anyone else hear this?

Mckenzie is Coached by Boz who played at Pitt and is a friend. I can promise you he isn’t going to cl e to Pitt. I know it would be great but it isn’t happening so scratch him off the list.

Upittbaseball: You obviously are out of touch with the WPIAL. I’m really tired of your constant negativity towards Pitt and everything Pittsburgh and your pro-south BS.

Chetthejet, Hafley was hired by Rutgers and Gattuso by Maryland — of course they’re going to call the recruits. It was up to Haywood and staff to keep these guys, and apparently they made a pretty feeble effort.

But of course, for people of your ilk, it’s all Wanny’s fault …. and BTW Wanny did not hold that presser, that was arranged by the AD so to have the guy he fired talk so he can be somehow absolved by the Wanny supporters I guesss …. what a freaking idiot!

when I said it was up to haywood and staff to keep these guys, I was referring to the recruits … but it also could have appplied to Hafley and gattuso. Pretty sure that Haywood was interetsed in Hafley but no other coach on the staff whcih, in fairness, is his call

i know that Pederson’s track record of hiring/firing football coaches is questionable at best..I really think salary restrictions dictated the Haywood hiring. i think Graham was his 1st choice all along.Now was he the right fit here? No! Should have hired Kevin Sumlin,but i think he gets more flak than deserved for the Haywood debacle…

They took their cues from the negative responses from the head coach. They did in fact set up the next staff with a harder job of retaining the commits. Did they sabotage the program, no, but they clearly they were not as professional as they could have been. Graham left town and did in fact set up a 90 day moratorium of Pitt recruits and players not being called.

Augur the WPIAL is very bad. Travel outside of Latrobe and watch football in SC, FL, TX, LA, GA…..he’ll even Ohio is better now. You must not travel much or actually watch the talent that makes D 1 championships or th NFL since 1980’s. the days of talent there are over except 2 to 3 a year and one is going to Bama.

Upitt,
I have a nephew in MS in SC. You are 100% correct. My nephew will be going to Byrne HS. You probably heard of them. Powerhouse team typically in the Top 10 nationally and travel out of state to play football games. You should see how that team trains.
Wpial is just not like it was 30 years ago.

There are no short term answers to Pitt success.
Two things need to exist: committed coach to the area and success on the field. Chryst hopefully has an eye for talent. I remember when Chuck Muncie left the area to play basketball at a small time college. People now will say how great of a talent he was back then but I don’t remember Paterno banging on his door trying to recruit Chuck. Some players peak early and some late. 3 star, 4 star, 5 star means absolutely nothing. That is perception of that player at present. Muncie grew into a beast and not even Joe Paterno knew it would happen.

pitt.fan,
See Chuck Muncie wiki. He quit HS football his senior year due to concussion and his mother didn’t want him to play anymore.
Albeit he went to a JC for basketball, he never played BB as the JC football coach convinced him to play football. After 1 year he went to Cal Bears.
So, you are wrong. Back then, recruiting and evaluations was much different than it is today.

Dan 83,
“you are wrong”. Explain to me how I’m wrong.
Pitt Fan 84

you are wrong about Chuck muncie.
he wasn’t recruited for football was because his mother wouldn’t let him play his senior year in HS.
Muncie was a stud football player in HS prior to his senior year so that has nothing to do with peaking!!!
I guess you are satisfied with MAC type recruits.

Dan 83,
What do you know about Muncie other than Wiki?

PittFan 84 (and I thought this would be a peaceful morning)

My Dad played with Muncie. Pittdan83. Yes I’ve heard of them. Some of these folks that don’t travel have no clue how advanced programs and schools are in the south compared to wpial. Byrne is very good

UPitt, for he past large handful of years, Ohio, which has about 1000 less high school students than PA, produces approx twice the amount of FB D1 prospects than PA

If you don’t get the best recruits in Western PA, you’re pretty much in a heap of trouble if you’re the Pitt coach

Wbb I agree ohio is very good as well

wbb – you are assuming that the PITT administration cares about winning football games more than they university’s local and national reputation.

They don’t and thus it was an easy decision to fire Wannstedt.

I did not realize the thread continued.

@wbb, did not mean to ignore your post. No it was not scripted which is kind of my point. W. was just too emotional and over the top. And he did burn bridges here.

As I said, I was a W. support for the contract renewal, and if W. had gotten over the top after that he would still be coaching.. but he didn’t. Games like Cinci just showed that his program had progressed as far as it was going to progress.

So it was time to move on. My point is he lost a lot of people like me, when He took it too personally and made it personal. There is no explaining away how he handled the last few weeks.

Again, I thought/think he has a strong skill set that could have been used to help the Athletic program and Pitt is some other role… even one created for him and his skill set.

In fact if he handled things differently we would probably be having those discussions right now.

Too bad. Good guy. Maybe time will smooth things over.

I actually think that he and PC would probably get along well… in fact his talent and ‘recruiting’ perhaps could have been matched with PC’s coaching.