It’s a long time until we next have actual football to talk about given the bye week. That is good as we need the R&R and the staff can fine tune those stupid penalty mistakes. In lieu of poignant discussions I thought it would be fun to do something else… look at everybody’s favorite QB and how he’s been doing statistically.
After another productive, and impressive, outing against Gardner-Webb Saturday let’s look at what sort of statistical season and career Tino Sunseri is having so far.
Last game Sunseri completed 18 of 24 attempts for 344 yards with three TDs and no interceptions. Obviously that was a good outing against a lower quality program. Cumulatively he’s playing very well (statistically remember) going 80 of 119 (67%) for 1144 yards with eight TDs and two INTs. This equates to a 166.80 QB rating which puts him 15th in the nation in Passing Efficiency.
Breaking that down further that is 9.6 yards per attempt and 14.3 yards per completion which is also very good.
Here is a little twist when looking at how the NCAA rates QB play nationally. For “Passing” they use completions per game where Sunseri is an average 45th with 20 per game. However, they also list “Passing Yards Per Game” in which Sunseri’s good 9.6 yards per attempt jacks him up to 19th nationally with 286 ypg.
OK, pretty good season so far on paper for him. What does this pace of play project out to as far as historical PITT QBs and their statistical achievements?
Sunseri’s 2012’s 1144 yards so far is on track, at 286 per game, to beat the all-time single season passing yardage record held by Rod Rutherford (2003 with 3679 yards). That would be 3718 yards projected over 13 games assuming we get to a bowl game.
Passing yards in a season
Name Season Yards
1. Rod Rutherford 2003 3,679
2. Alex Van Pelt 1992 3,163
3. Tyler Palko 2004 3,067
4. Alex Van Pelt 1989 2,881
5. Dan Marino 1981 2,876
6. Tyler Palko 2006 2,871
7. Pete Gonzalez 1997 2,829
8. Alex Van Pelt 1991 2,796
9. Rod Rutherford 2002 2,783
10. Bill Stull 2009 2,633
Looking at total career passing yards his yardage to date (6446) puts him at #6 behind #5 John Congemi (6467) and #4 Rutherford (6724). He’ll pass both of those guys with the next two games to land at #4 behind #1 Alex Van Pelt (11,267!), #2 Dan Marino (8597)and #3 Tyler Palko (8343).
At his current 286 ypg pace Sunseri would end up with a total career yardage mark of 9020 surpassing both Palko and Marino and listing him at #2 historically. Yikes! This is a projection crudely based on simple stats and a 2012 bowl game but still, it is rather eye opening to see what could happen in the record books if he keeps up his current pace. Factor in that he’s starting three years vice four as Van Pelt and Marino did and it’s more impressive.
Passing yards in a career (as of the start of 2012)
1. Alex Van Pelt 1989-92 11,267
2. Dan Marino 1979-82 8,597
3. Tyler Palko 2002-06 8,343
4. Rod Rutherford 2000-03 6,724
5. John Congemi 1983-86 6,467
6. Tino Sunseri 2009- 5,302 (currently 6446 as of today)
7. Bill Stull 2005-09 5,252
8. David Priestley 1999-2001 4,533
9. John Ryan 1992-95 4,334
10. Rick Trocano 1977-80 4,219
To put things in a bit more perspective I looked at Sunseri’s numbers and compared then to John Congemi’s as those two are somewhat comparable talents in my eyes. Here is what I found.
Congemi 550/994 55% 6467 yards 6.4 ypa 11.75 ypc
Sunseri 560/867 65% 6446 yards 7.4 ypa 11.50 ypc
You can see that Sunseri’s 2012 9.6 ypa is a pretty big jump over his historical 7.4. That translates into a lot more yardage and keeping drives alive.
As far as rushing goes Sunseri has 170 yards so far in his career which, added to his passing yardage, give him 6616 in total yardage surpassing…(drum roll please)…. #5 Tony Dorsett at 6526 total yards. Damn! That is too weird but it is interesting that Dorsett is the only non-QB on the list and that Palko tops Marino. That’s mainly because Marino was a statue back there.
Top Total Offense Careers
Name Seasons Rushing Passing Total
1. Alex Van Pelt 1988-92 -119 11,267 11,148
2. Tyler Palko 2002-06 86 8,343 8,429
3. Dan Marino 1979-82 -277 8,597 8,320
4. Rod Rutherford 2000-03 885 6,724 7,609
5. Tony Dorsett 1973-76 6,526 0 6,526
6. John Congemi 1983-86 -116 6,467 6,351
7. Tino Sunseri 2009- 170 5,302 5.494 (6616)
8. Bill Stull 2005-09 -188 5,252 5,064
9. Rick Trocano 1977-80 673 4,219 4,892
10. David Priestley 1999-2001 -88 4,533 4,445
I find those all those interesting statistics and comparisons. Not just in regard to Sunseri’s production but to see all the other QBs in context to each other also. Remember, this article isn’t debating the merits, talents or worth to the team but pure statistical projections alone. Nobody in their right mind would equate Sunseri with Dan Marino or even Tyler Palko as far as being an effective QB over the life of his career.
Sunseri could easily fall back off of his 280 ypg pace but given Chryst’s offense so far, and the progress it has made over the first four games, Sunseri could also maintain that level. We’ll see how that plays out. Hopefully it will get even better as that would lead to more wins this season. But you have to admit – the record books will change by the end of the 2102 season.
– Mark Twain
A phrase describing the persuasive power of numbers, particularly the use of statistics to bolster weak arguments.
This was just something to pass the time until the next game and to get us talking about something. But you have to admit those numbers are pretty surprising.
23 – yeah, I wondered that also but this came right out of PITT’s media guide.
Just imagine hearing in 2009 that Tino would accomplish the following:
finish #2 on Pitts all time passing, finishing higher than Marino and Palko
finish in the top 5 on Pitts all time total offense passing Tony Dorsett
finish his career with a 65% completion rate.
If I told you that in 2009 you would have thought Pitt was probably one of the best teams in the country from 2010 to 2012…obviously not so. But furthermore you would have thought Tino was one of the greatest QBs to ever wear a Pitt uniform and that is disturbing. Amazing what you can do with numbers, charts and graphs.
I am really happy for Tino. I truly hope that VA Tech was a turning point for him. And I truly hope that at the end of his career he has earned the honro of passing up Marino and Dorsett on all time ranking lists.
These overall numbers just go to show how much football (college especially) has changed over the past 20 years or so. Can anyone imagine what type of numbers Marino would put up in todays game? It just makes it all the more impressive what he accomplished.
I wonder, I am not familiar with the injury histories of AVP and Marino, but would it be very hard to calculate yards per game? That might be a fairer estimate considering the 13 game schedules of today and possible production due to injury.
In fact, one of THE MOST remarkable things about Tino is, knock on wood, his toughness in playing every game. As much as we, and I, criticize him, NO ONE can challenge the kid’s toughness. I know some of that is luck, but it speaks to the ability to put up impressive historical numbers. Not only has Tino been ok, he’s been healthy.
8 regular season games and hopefully a bowl is such a long time to go, the book on Tino is nowhere close to being closed. I hope he can write a few more chapters like the VT game, because the only stat that really matters is W-L!
In the end there is a sad collection of Pitt fans that will never be happy until the next Dan Marino takes the field. Even then they will boo any time that college quarterback makes a bad play. It’s a really sad commentary that any college kid has to live with this kind of scrutiny. Please don’t give me any crap about his scholarship or that it’s the life that he chose. Yes, those folks do buy the tickets and I suppose can therefore do what they want. However those people need to look in the mirror at what they have become. A fully grown, but not particularly mature, adult belittling a twenty two year old about a game.
“The term was popularised in the United States by Mark Twain (among others), who attributed it to the 19th-century British Prime Minister Benjamin Disraeli (1804–1881): “There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.” However, the phrase is not found in any of Disraeli’s works and the earliest known appearances were years after his death.”
I think part of the fans’ problems with Sunseri is because he is so maddeningly inconsistent. He never seems to have just a regular average day at the office when he’s on the field. Either he plays very well or does something to ruin any good things he did in a game.
This last Cincy game is a good example – he had a fine outing save for two plays. The problem was both those plays cost us 14 points and would have kept the game very close going into the 4th quarter.
But we go way overboard when discussing him also. I actually read on a message board that Sunseri passed poorly last Saturday because he missed two wide open receivers.
Two misses out of 24 attempts when he also had 18 completions!
It has been ridiculous with the actual hatred some fans have for the guy. I’ve called for him to be benched myself – but never have I though any less of Sunseri as a person because he isn’t the best QB out there.
I also have to laugh just a little at all the PITT fans who are saying our QB woes are over. This is the same thing people were saying back in 2007 when Bostick was recruited and then in 2010 when Sunseri was given the starting job. Really, who can forget “Its Tino Time!”?
Believing that Voytik, Chapman or Kincaid (if he comes to PITT) is the answer is part of the fun of college football and Paul Chryst does seem to be able to get the best out of his QB but one never knows exactly what we’ll get when these kids run out onto the field.
Marino – @ 48 games – 179 ypg – 76 TDs (1.6 per game) – 69 INTs (1.43 per game)
Sunseri – @ 30 games – 215 ypg – 36 TDs (.97 per game) – 25 INTs (1.2 per game)…so far
Palko – @ 35 games – 239 ypg – 66 TDs (2.2 per game) – 26 INTs (.74 per game)
Just wondering…
I wonder the same thing. You look at those lists, and nearly every QB on that list is from the 80s or later. Trocano is the one exception who played most of his career in the late 70s. I think more than anything else, more than the schedule, more than even QB ability, is that the game has simply changed. Offenses are more pass-happy. I think that’s really your bottom line. I don’t want to take anything away from Tino, the per game numbers in particular were eye-opening, they just seem to say to me that we’re talking about two very, very different eras of football here.
I think a fairer comparison, when all is said and done, will be Tino’s Sr. year v Bill Stull’s senior year. I know their playing styles aren’t as similar, but I think they shared such a similar era that the comparison will be a better gauge of what Tino can do. After all, Billy got Pitt their only 10 win season of the past generation. It may seem crazy, but that is the benchmark I go by, and I know Stull was surrounded by NFL talent, but I consider his senior year to be one of the best years by a Pitt QB since Marino.
He will pass TD on the career yardage mark, but so what?
He is turning in good career numbers, but remember this…Pitt has been the abyss for many years over the last 30. It isn’t like he is challenging Miami QB’s from the same era.
I prefer to see how his stats match up to the W/L column and so far, I see that he has played poorly in one game, very well in two and was insignificant in another.
He will need to play well for us to beat Syracuse.
I like what I see and I like his demeanor. Those are more important to me at this juncture…the stats will take care of themselves.
Coach – not to quibble but Twain thought he was quoting British Prime Minister Benjamin Disraeli. Turns out they were both quoting another British PM, Arthur Balfour.
I hope Tino gets a similar boost. A new OC is not always a negative for a QB. Even in the NFL, look at Alex Smith’s turnaround at San Fran. when the new regime came in.
Chuck Morris: I did some research two years ago regarding the types of play calls Cav called vs Cignetti called in the opponent’s red zone +. Cav almost never called passes within the 30 yard line and ran McCoy 80% of the time – which worked out well.
However, even with Lewis blowing up his FR year, Cignetti called an even mix of runs/passes in that same deep field situation and Stull delivered with that big leap in TD passes.
As to garbage time TDs every QB has that – again these are pure stats not indicative of how well someone actually played quarterback.
They ended with 4 losses (Wisc and oSU) but beat UF (Tebow) in Citrus Bowl
Seriously though, I hope that Sunseri continues to tear it up and that he passes both Palko and Marino in the total career passing yardage record books. That would be a fantastic personal accomplishment for Tino, especially considering all of the negative PR that he has had to slug through to get to where he is today, not to mention all of the coaching turmoil that has occurred during his Pitt career that has had a negative impact on his overall potential.
Marino was phenomenal in his Junior year and finished 4rth in the Heisman Trophy balloting that year, to Marcus Allen of USC.
And had we finished undefeated and #1 that year I believe Danny would have won it.
His senior year was plagued by the fact Jackie Sherrill left after going 33-3 in his last 3 years and a #2 ranking. And the beginning of the decline, the Foge years. While we still made a Major Bowl that year (the Cotton Bowl, when it was still one of the Big 4 Bowls), you could see Pitt slipping. But how do you maintain something that produced Dorsett & Marino in a span of 5 years,a National Championship undefeated season (12-0) and three 11-1 seasons, especially with an unwilling administration.
If you look at Pitt’s history in football, most if not ALL of our declines are administration related and their unwillingness to maintain excellence.
We are the only football team in college history to TURN DOWN a Rose Bowl invitation. As the administration then would not give the players spending money on the trip to Pasadena and this eventually led to our greatest coach (Jock Sutherland) resigning (the previous year’s trip to the Rose Bowl, Sutherland dipped into his own pockets to give the players some spending money). Sutherland’s resignation directly led to 30 years of football decline, albeit with a good year thrown in here and there (like 1956 & 1963). Same thing pretty much happened when Jackie Sherrill was allowed to walk.
As far as the stats, meh
The Gov’t likes to use stats too, to tell us how
low the inflation rate is. Yea right !
By the way ASU crushed Utah over the weekend 37-7.
That must have been sweet revenge after the Pitt/Utah fiasco last year.
Kelly Taylor ASU QB (6’1 200 lbs Sophomore)
19/26 .. 326 Yards 73 % 12.5 Y/A 3TD’s 0 Picks
216.5 QB rating.
Michael Eubank (Freshman)
4/5 46 yds 80% 9.2 Y/A 0 0
157.3 QB rating
That was against a real D1 team who played in a Bowl Game last year. Both are 1rst year players in the Spread.
I can swear Danny didn’t play one year at Morganhole, due to knee problem. Cause I believe we were at the game. Somehow my memory of some Pitt games during my school years are a bit cloudy.
Can’t imagine why. haha 🙂
Ohio State faculty turned down the Rose Bowl in 1962 on the grounds the football program was too powerful.
I recall the game against WVUlgar when Marino sat out. He injured his shoulder the previous week against South Carolina. But Daniels was long gone by that time. Damned if I know who played QB, but Bryan Thomas from Elyria Catholic ran well.
but if you think tino is as good as marino or even
palko.
you are very wrong if tino plays good the rest of the season i will give him his props
but as good as marino no way.
With that I even wrote in the 2nd to last paragraph:
“Remember, this article isn’t debating the merits, talents or worth to the team but pure statistical projections alone. Nobody in their right mind would equate Sunseri with Dan Marino or even Tyler Palko as far as being an effective QB over the life of his career.”
I think “nobody in their right mind…” explains how I think Sunseri plays in comparison to Palko and Marino.
thanks for the research into that game.
Luck still holds a grudge. If Pederson had any gonads, maybe he would send Oliver a stat sheet from that game with audio from the Green Acres theme song with Zsa Zsa calling for “Olivah”.
Hell, I just might do it myself.
