Look, I’m not saying there aren’t a lot of issues that are unique to the Big East among the major conferences. The size, very diverse membership (large urban public universities, small Catholic private universities in urban areas, large private universities, public land grant univerities) and foremost the split of football and basketball schools. So, yeah, being the Big East Commissioner comes with a particularly unique set of headaches.
That said, ex-Big East Commissioner John Marinatto is not the victim.
While you’re at it, blame him for high gas prices, unemployment and even the torn ACLs recently suffered by Derrick Rose and Mariano Rivera. It’s all Marinatto’s fault. Everything that has gone wrong in the world since he took over as the Big East’s commissioner on July 1, 2009 can be directly linked back to Marinatto.
On Monday, Marinatto resigned as the Big East’s commissioner. I don’t have the exact figures, but I’d guess about 99 percent of the college sports fans on Twitter wondered why Marinatto hadn’t been fired months earlier. And that’s sad. Because Marinatto is not solely to blame for the Big East losing four schools since he became commissioner. The league’s presidents are the ones that bumbled and stumbled so that their league became more of a punch line than a BCS conference. The same Big East presidents that make up the league’s board of directors that asked Marinatto to resign on Sunday.
After Marinatto replaced Mike Tranghese, he was doomed. It was only a matter of time. He was set up to fail by the league’s presidents because they handcuffed his ability to make any relevant changes.
“He was the human pin cushion,” a league source said. “Nobody in the world could have made this work. Look at the things he was dealt.”
He wanted the job, and was not strong enough or good enough to handle it. He thought he could pull it off because the strength of the basketball schools backing him would always put him with nearly 50% of the votes on anything. Then he was shocked. Shocked, I tell you, to learn that his cluelessness and inability to actually build consensuses on anything led them to throw him out of the lobster-bake.
Brett McMurphy has been absolutely phenomenal on covering expansiopocolypse and Big East actions. He broke the Marinatto fired story. But this piece is more than a little revisionist.
It credits Marinatto for getting TCU to the Big East. Despite the fact that it was Coach Jamie Dixon and Pitt that brought TCU to Marinatto. It suggests that USF’s president managed to block UCF from being invited around the same time — ignoring the whole Villanova maybe moving to 1-A portion.
USF, no dobut, did not want UCF in at that point. Just as Villanova fought Temple for decades. But neither did it without basically the basketball schools helping to block those programs. The same people to whom Marinatto was beholden.
Somehow it manages to get someone to claim that the rejected TV deal Marinatto negotiated was the lynchpin that could have kept Pitt, Cuse, WVU and even TCU from leaving.
That’s because in April of 2011, with TCU on board, Marinatto and the league negotiated a nine-year deal worth $1.4 billion for its new media rights deal. Marinatto recommended to his presidents that they accept the offer and they promptly voted against it.
“I think that was the stupidest decision ever made [to turn it down] in college athletics,” a league source said. “To have the equity of ESPN as your brand and the stability that would have gone with it.”
…
… “If the TV deal was accepted and UCF had been added [as a 10th football member], who knows if Pitt and Syracuse ever leave,” an industry source said. “Everyone left because of stability and right there was your stability with that TV deal.” A month after Syracuse and Pittsburgh announced they were leaving, Marinatto — to help stabilize the league — recommended on Oct. 2 to the league’s presidents that the Big East should increase its exit fee from $5 million to $12 million-$15 million, according to documents obtained by CBSSports.com.
That’s a couple ifs to lead to more ifs. And one that should rightfully be called a load of crap. That deal was still under the amount of the ACC pay out, and completely took out the open market negotiations. The schools rightfully rejected it, as the Pac-12 media deal was revealed a month or so later.
Marinatto was doing the bidding of many of the basketball schools (Georgetown was a notable exception. They actively fought the early deal.) that just wanted to get money fast and in their own fantasy world as this example illustrates. The revisionism about how foolish the the Big East presidents were to reject that deal are insane. Even with the hot mess the conference is now, one can fully expect that they will still get close to the same numbers — probably better.
The problem for Marinatto was that even the basketball schools had lost faith in him. It wasn’t the claimed anger at feeling marginalized by the expansion to save the football side of that. They held the power to block it all, but approved the new teams. They may not have liked what happened, but they all swallowed hard and signed off on it because it was still in their best financial interests.
But the basketball schools were not going to let that same financial future rest in Marinatto’s hands after the last 12 months. Nice to have a weak leader when it gets you what you want (or stops others). But when it puts you at risk. Time for a change.
On related matters, there is probably no greater example of the basketball schools self-delusion than this:
One of the biggest stumbling points has been how the television money would be divided among the basketball and football schools. Last year, at the spring meetings in Ponte Vedra Beach, Fla., one proposal suggested a 75/25 split — 75 percent of the money going to football schools, and 25 percent going to basketball schools. One athletic director at a basketball school raised his hand and wondered why the numbers were not flipped, since hoops is the reason the Big East exists in the first place.
You can imagine how well that went over in the room.
Amazing.
That ability to believe that somehow basketball drove the bus in TV money does explain much of why the Big East basketball schools seem to be the ones to keep floating the idea of the split more than the football schools. There is a persistent myth that somehow refocusing only on basketball will make things much better.
Another exhibit of this is the former Big East Commish, Mike Tranghese. With Marinatto fired, and Tranghese’s punting of the problems down the road onto his friend’s plate, Tranghese decides to get talky again. After all, there is a legacy to defend. And he chooses to do it by reverting to cluelessness to the New York Times.
“I thought that the basketball and football schools coexisted beautifully up to the point when Syracuse, Pittsburgh and West Virginia departed,” Tranghese said Monday in a telephone interview. “At that point, I thought the basketball schools ought to take a real hard look. Whether they’re going to, I don’t know.”
Oh, lord. Welcome back to revisionism. Suddenly all appeared peachy. Let’s flashback about seven months:
“I would have worked another four or five years,” he told Sporting News recently. “I knew all this stuff was coming. I knew it wasn’t ending. I knew the football structure of the Big East was fragile. It’s a hard way to operate. The problem with Big East football is they didn’t win enough games.”
That was Tranghese explaining that part of the real reason he quit as Commissioner was not his fear of flying, but because he didn’t want to deal with the next Big East exodous — that he saw coming, but suddenly didn’t.
That little fact-checking took away from the fact that even Mike Tranghese has deluded himself into thinking that the basketball schools should consider splitting. It’s a nice fantasy for the Big East basketball schools.
Split from the football schools + take Notre Dame + top A-10 programs (Xavier, Butler, UMass, Richmond, Dayton) + whatever hot mid-major team is out there (VCU) = PROFITS
No. You would be a stronger A-10. Take a look at their media deal. Without even Big East football to bundle, the value of your product is not that much. It’s why the next media deal will give most of the money to the football schools. Something the NY Times article acknowledges.
The surprising reality with the Big East — if it stays together in its intended 13-team and 18-team formats — is that it could still be a lucrative league. Football drives the financial bus, and basketball provides boundless inventory. While there have been plenty of jokes about who would want to watch San Diego State and Connecticut play football, apparently someone is willing to pay to find out.
Neal Pilson, a media consultant and former president of CBS Sports, predicted that the Big East could surpass the deal it turned down last year, which was considered similar in value to the A.C.C.’s $155 million annual deal.
“I think if they stay together and negotiate as a single unit, I think they can come away with a reasonably favorable result,” Pilson said. “Even more than what ESPN offered a year and a half ago. I think the competition will drive it.”
Which is why all those stupid statements about how turning down the ESPN deal last year is so annoying. Anyone who actually is or was involved with media contracts has been saying since last year that the Big East will get a better deal on the open market. Even without Pitt, Syracuse, WVU (and eventually Louisville).
but when the big east had the chance 2 years ago
had they goin to 12 football schools we would
still be in the big east to day and likeing it
that we left and all the shit that happened can be laied at the foot of the BB schools.
do you think they can be that blind that they dont know that are they that stupied or dont they want to admit that i would like to know if they are really that blind to what happened do they really not know that it is there fult?
MAYBE WE WOULD MAYBE NOT BUT IT IS THE BB SCHOOLS
THAT SCREWED THE POCH
AND THAT MADE SURE WE WOULD JUMP WHEN THE CHANCE CAME.
As for you, don’t know if you’re Catholic, Jewish or something else, but, you definitely had some divinge intervention last night at MSG!!!!!!
When they scored with 6 sec left, I knew who was winning o.t.!!!
Back to the BigE : The AD’s are also to blame for the cluster, and that includes our own. How smiley couldn’t build consensus with the other AD’s to oust the Commish, is reprehensible. That stated, once you understand him, it is easier to figure out why he couldn’t build consensus.The cat just needs to go. Perhaps be the governor of the non-ncaa league.
Secession remains a great opportunity to be forward thinkers for a college basketball league only. Also, by joining the league it would be a requirement that you are not permitted to schedule a game against the ncaa sanctioned leagues. Make them play each other and see how many schools have 19-16 records. No more cupcake city baby!! ESPN would not know how to handle it. Bring back the NIT baby!!
Can’t blame it on Pederson for not getting rid of Marinatto. If you read the pieces, the issue is with the school presidents/chancellors not the ADs. I realize the de facto impulse with anything involving Pitt athletics is to blame Pederson, but this is not one of those opportunities. When it is at the conference level it is Nordenberg and the people actually in charge of the school who make the final decisions.
Wow, almost 1.75 liters of John Barr scotch consumed during the game (cheap yet smooth). What a finish! Stephan Matteau would be proud.
Frank, are you a Caps fan?
Heart pounding game last night, good for you!
Oy vey Maria
they are dreadlords part of the dark ones host.
He sat silent when he should have been aggressive and he revealed his arrogance when faced with a crisis Pitt, Cuse and WVU told him was coming.
His leverage was lost because he did not have the balls to quit when he saw stalemate. Did he need the job? Who knows, but he now has a nice severance package, will get an adjunct faculty appointment at Providence, a small office, a phone number and fade away into oblivion.
He is what I refer to as “Mediocre America”…no vision, no hutzpah (for you Steve) and soul…
God save us from mediocrity and thank God we left when we did. Pederson has made his share of mistakes, but getting off the dime and taking the plunge when we did was an act of wisdom.
– the message boards had just about any combination of 6 teams joing the Big 10, the only possibility not discussed was the inclusion of only Nebraska.
– did anyone here know anything about Pitt and Cuse joining the ACC until the day of the announcement? Not one message board had this scoop until it happened.
Usually when there is smoke, there’s fire … but I’m not going to fret about anything until it actually happens.
As the next Big East commissioner tries to sell San Diego St. vs. UCONN football to network executives, Marinatto and the Providence boys will be yearning for the glory days of Ernie DiGregorio and an era where facilities, marketing, and college football did not matter in the Northeast. As the power brokers in present day college sports evolve into the networks and football conferences, Marinatto and the Big East were simply not the fittest to survive. Despite Marinatto’s efforts to hold the 1980’s status quo, Dave Gavitt will come back from the grave before Providence reaches another final four.
1. Oringinal post was on a WVU blog. Just browsing over them the other day, I noticed WVU fans acting like the Big12 is where they’ve wanted to be all their lives. I might feel that way too if I got snubbed by the ACC and SEC.
2. They are also posting like they’ve been in the Big12 as a charter member. They are discussing “who they’d like” to come into “their” conference.
So, you have that.
Then, and this is good news/bad news. (again, if anything at all).
Clemson and Florida St. will never go to the Big 12….because, the SEC will not let that happen. The ACC and SEC have had a gentlemens agreement for 50 years not to poach each other, or poach a team in a state one conference or another allready has a team in.
This agreement would disolve immediately if FSU and Clemson were thinking seriously about the Big12, (the bad news)–the SEC would take the two before ever letting the Big 12 into the SE U.S.
Ya, money is the main thing, however, as one quote I saw said, the presidents are who make the decisions, and with the ACC academic network, the presidents of the ACC schools really don’t care if the ACC keeps losing Orange Bowls.
Also, allthough more money now, the ACC television contract is up for renewal shortly.
The ACC also take it other sports pretty seriously also, so, trips to Waco and Lubbock, doubt it.
Also, would they want to go to a league, that could break up on a whim, if UT, TAM, OK, OK ST. decide to go to PAC12 or Big10 at anytime if it goes to 16 team super conferences???
Would either want to go to the Big12 or SEC and become a little fish in football, when they have an easier time being the big fish in football in the ACC???
Lots and lots of questions.
Oh, also, if it goes to 16, IMHO, against all odds, I believe ND will eventually have to pick Big 10 or ACC.
Do you want to leave a conference that might have ND coming into it.
Again, just lots of questions and things for these people to think about.
All in all, I think they are staying.
If there is a fire behind the smoke, I would say more than anything, they could be using the ploy of the Big12 to make the SEC take them.
Anyhow, those are my thoughts.
Wish we would just get to 4 or 5 conferences of 16 and be done with it.
Until they do that, expansionpocalypse will always be just an internet post away.
They were largely created by a WVU fan who created 3 other handles from different schools and carried on conversations with himself.
He was outed by a mod who noticed they all had the same IP address.
Here’s a link:
I think the Big 12 has finalized or almost finalized the TV contract, so that would also signal the end of expansion on their side.
Wardapalooza- I agree it’s worth at least a post since it could have a major impact on Pitt’s future.
Steve1- I have seen rumblings that NCSU is sick of being little brother to Duke/UNC. Plus they would make way more $$$
Dan- There is no such thing as a gentleman’s agreement, as Urban Meyer has disproved for us already in his OSU tenure.
Also, I think the key right now is for the ACC is to nab Notre Dame and Rutgers to cement the conference. The inclusion of Notre Dame into the ACC’s new television contract would substantially increase revenue I would think over that key number (that I kept reading about) of $20 million.
Original- I already heard that. But I wouldnt trust a bunch of people babbling about it on a Pitt message board (biased). I much rather would see the involved schools message boards, which indicate negotiations are going full steam ahead.
(My opinions between the dotted line. DISCLAIMER: NOT ACCURATE IN THE LEAST BIT)
—————————————
So if this all turns out to be true and the cards fall this way, here’s what I think may/should/consider happen:
1. Well this would call for the immediate termination for Stevey P, with Nordy being next. (These two btw are already creating their exit plan, expect it to happen in 2 years).
2. Pitt/Cuse and Rutgers/ND should consider the Big Ten, if the Big Ten is willing to expand (which I think it should if the goal is for 16 team mega-conferences). It would naturally compliment PedSU’s region and nicely fit into the conference. Pitt really only fits into the ACC for academics, not really location.
3. More $$$ if Pitt goes to the B10 with ND (and the likes of UM MSU OSU PSU), so that wouldn’t be an issue.
4. If the SEC nabs VT and NCSU, and the B12 FSU and Clemson, I think UofL and UC should go the B12.
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Any more thoughts about this?
It’s all about $$$, making our current state of college football really scary. People will do anything for more $$$.
I know this is a hot air post, but who knows anymore. Some are saying this may happen by the end of June. Everyone just be on their toes.
Pitt fans are just summing it up for those who don’t go on ther boards.
Yes the huge TV Market of western South Carolina, I’m sure is desirable for the Texas schools. Give me a break.
And Florida State has been trending downward for a decade now. Not the hot commodity they once were either. Tallahassee, not exactly a major media market and the closet big city is Jacksonville, whoopee. Which btw is just as much Gator country as Nole country.
And to top this mirage off, they would leave a stable conference like the ACC for a conference that nearly imploded twice in the last 18 months.
With everyone that was tired of being Texas’s bitch and could get out, got the hell out. Sounds like something some moron from West Virginia would dream up.
First Clemson and Florida State will not be allowed to join the SEC due to South Carolina and Florida already being in the SEC. This is the Villanova versus Temple scenario in the Big East except on a state level. The SEC is a lot more disciplined than the Big East and is no where close to being as desperate as the Big East was to get someone as the Big East was for a warm body this year.
Second Virginia Tech and their administration/alumni got the Virginia state political machine to help them get into the ACC. The University of Virginia would return the favor to keep them in the ACC and both universities know that.
As for anyone in the ACC going to the Texas dominated Big 12, no way. Rest easy fellow Panthers the ACC is still “steady as she goes”.
Have a niece that went to FSU. She said a lot of people call it “Tallabama”!!! LOL
@Timmeh, agree with your posts, and I always have found the subject interesting.
With upcoming possible events, maybe not, but, the SEC and ACC actually have had a “gentlemans agreement” for 40 some years, and have not messed with each other.
Not just football, about 20 years ago, there were some rumors, that Kentucky and Tennessee wanted to go to the ACC together for hoops. (Kentucky hoops school, and before UT had a good run in football in the 90’s). Lots of “Kentucky, Duke and UNC should all play each other twice a year” crap. Got quashed quickly by then ACC commish, “not happening”.
Now, if there is a race for conferences to 16, and someone like the Big 12 invited teams in SEC country to their conference, then yes, all bets are off, and it’s a real every conference for themselves situation, worse than it allready has been. I agree.
The players??? The 11 FBS conference commissioners and Notre Dame athletic director Jack Swarbuck.
What is he doing there??? Is he representing Army, Navy and BYU as independts also???
Don’t these people have any ba**s??
Yes, Notre Dame is important to college football, and generates money, but, for who???
Get in a conference or you’re not in the playoffs. Move into the 21st century.
I’m not generally a Notre Dame hater, but, this type of crap draws me toward that group.
Read that Notre Dame wants a special provision that if they’re in the top 6, when this 4 team playoff comes, that they get included.
I really thought Delaney, Swofford, Slive and the Pac12 guy, would really tighten the screws on Notre Dame this time. Specials are off the menu.
Notre Dame has to have pictures.
Everyone, if you have a minute, read originalethers link!!
LMAO. You know, I said I browsed on their site to see what all the FSU/Clemson stuff was about.
They were all pumped up, doing the woo hoo dance and had the corn cob pipes out.
Talk about “egg on face”.
LOL
Comments are panther fans like us, who knows, maybe some of you are on there also??
Anyhow, they’re havin’ a jolly time at Morganhole’s expense!!!
LOL
Here is a good read too:
link to frankthetank.wordpress.com
it is just some one makeing stuff up if big 12 expands it will take schools from big east agein and the SEC is not expanding and the big 10 is not,
the ACC might expandif ND wants a home becuse of the new playoff they trying to put in place read hank the tank
Sounds to me like we hit the home run we all thought we did a few months ago, with the move to the ACC.
The new “playoff” format, may just keep the 5 major conferences at 12 or 14, and not having everyone racing to 16.
Lots of good stuff, especially the ESPN/ACC tie ins, I really don’t think FSU or Clemson are even entertaining any ideas of leaving the ACC.
If it ever goes to 16 in each conference, maybe, but the “6” bcs bowls, using two of them for the semi-finals then a championship game, seems like it’s something that is coming.
If it’s coming, then, they will give it at least 5-7 years to see how it works, if not longer.
Might re-think things then, but only after they see how this works out.
Sounds to me like the ACC, SEC, Big10 and Pac12 are set for quite awhile.
The Big12, will probably add two in the future.
Glad we’re in one of the Big 5!!!!
On the other hand, I am sure they would be very interested in VA Tech. But it may that VA Tech may not share the interest … remember that VA Tech wouldn’t have had a chance for a BCS game this past season had it been in the SEC. For this reason as well as political and geographical concerns, they may not be as interested as one may think.
They can probably do whatever they want, but, they’re be some smokin’ hot people I’m sure, if they ever tried to leave the ACC.
Hopefully this all shakes out and sits still for awhile!!
If it does, think the only other thing, would be the Big 12 going to 12, Louisville seems to be the main dance partner, but, there doesn’t seem to be much out ther for the twelvth.
Always thought BYU would be good, but, I guess their Sunday scheduling conflicts, and that’s certainly their perogative.
Again, hopefully some calm and just some good football and hoops to watch for a few years.
but why do that when they know the big 12 will get 20 million per team why dident the ACC say they wanted the same 20 millon per team why take less
i dont get it explain please
and if so they should get at least the 17 millon this time that the ACC got cant see them taking less if they turned down 15 million last time
so with that 17 million forthe ACC seams small
the ACC should be worth more than the big east and at least as mutch as the big 12 should have been at least 20 million.
Would you rather be stuck in what now appears to be a non-AQ cluster**** conference?
USF, UConn, Rutgers would all gladly trade spots with us.
Pitt just saw it’s TV revenue increase by $10 million. Sounds like a good day.
I’m not going to sweat $17 million vs. $20 million.
ACC did say they valued more exposure over more money. Not sure what that means – maybe Chas will later elaborate – but take that for what it’s worth.
Should finally add: Supposedly, the contract allows for reevaluation every 5 years. So in 2017, the amount may increase to $22 million per team, and in 2022 it may increase to $27 million.
The SEC supposedly had an optional 1-time reevaluation in their contract. No one else does, so the ACC may be #1 or #2 in dollar revenue come 2022.
i’m excited, exhilerated, frightened, and calmed in the same day.
keep it coming.
I was reading that FSU and all other ACC teams might be allowed to “keep what they kill” in terms of bowl payouts. So if FSU makes the BCS playoffs they will get to keep the majority of the pay out, which would more than make up for the difference between conferences.
Also if the BCS playoff system that is to be determined makes it much harder for ND to get in the playoffs then chances are they will bolt for the ACC. So if they add ND plus another team the TV money will go up a ton.
the article said so the ACC wont add ND or any one
else dont know if it is right but that is what it said.
that the acc will add ND
tht new contract does not insulate from conference realignment the disparity is enough for a bigger conference to swoop down and take a acc team if they want to.
read the article
i may have missunderstud some of it but but i did not miss the part were yhey said the acc will not add ND or the part were they said biger conferense
can swoop down and take ACC teams read the article
your self may be the part were a new team will get
less then 17 millon i might have wrong.
but not the 2 main points abought ND or thatwe are not insulated from outher conference takeing teams from the acc read it your self
