Anyone else figure it out yet? I mean aside from the whole size thing.
If you recall, back in February Head Coach Paul Chyrst had a general press conference. One of the topics discussed was his approach to recruiting. The emphasis was on doing it smarter and better. Not having cattle call junior days. More advanced study of players by the coaching staff as to who they should recruit before they make offers. Not revolutionary, but a change from the now traditional approach that most programs use.
That seemed to explain the slow start to Pitt’s recruiting. Not simply in terms of the number of commits to this point, but the reports of the slow pace by which the staff was making contact and putting out offers to kids in the 2013 class. Chryst and the staff were being thorough in their research before extending offers willy-nilly. They were going to find guys who not only had talent and/or potential, but guys who wanted to be taught football and were legitimately interested in Pitt.
Plus, like it or not, there’s going to be a little caution from recruits about Pitt. When you have had more head coaches than Antonio Cromartie has fathered children in the same 12 month period, it doesn’t exactly promote an image of stability.
Then there was the list from Chris Dokish that listed the top-50 players that Pitt has offered. It was… interesting. A lot of top players in the country. A number from the west coast. And I have to admit to being very confused by it.
On the one hand, just because Pitt has offered does not mean Pitt has seriously pursued all of these kids. The list is specifically of the best players Pitt has offered. Not the best players Pitt has a good chance (or even simply a chance in hell) of landing. At the same time that puts the claims by Chryst that recruiting will be more selective and evaluative into doubt. If they are just sending out offers to all parts of the country without much thought as to realistic fit and mutual interest, then how different are they doing things beyond having smaller groups of kids at a time come for visits?
On the other hand I think Dokish may have overstated the absurdity of the California and Hawaii offers — 6 of the 50 on the list. All to re-make a point: that Chyrst made a mistake not hiring someone on the staff with east coast ties for recruiting.
Dokish points out that the offers/recruiting are by Inoke Breckterfield — the linebacker coach who worked with Chryst at Oregon State and was at UCLA before Pitt hired him. The responsibility, though, lies with Chryst for having Breckterfield waste time pursuing these prospects right now. Regardless of where Breckterfield may have the recruiting connections, that is not an area that Pitt can recruit right now.
We all know the reality of Pitt football at the moment. The football program has been extremely mediocre for the past 10 years — and the 15 prior to that wasn’t so hot. The national profile of the football team is not one that lends itself to easily recruiting California and the western states. For the most part Pitt has had its best recruiting success working regionally — PA, OH, NJ, NY, MD and dipping into Florida.
Right now, you would think that would be where most of the focus in recruiting and cultivating relationships should be for the football staff. This is a staff with no real ties to the East Coast, outside of Bobby Engram playing at Penn State and being from South Carolina. A staff now at a program that has had ridiculous turnover with all the coaches in the last year plus. There is a crying need to make sure that Pitt reestablishes its credibility in these areas first.
Breaking down Dokish’s list by region shows that where Pitt is recruiting may not be as bad as suggested:
Western PA: 8
Eastern and Central PA: 3
New Jersey: 5
Maryland: 4
Ohio: 14
Florida: 3
California & Hawaii: 6
Georgia: 3
North Carolina: 2
Others: 2
That’s 37 of the best 50 players they offered coming from the places Pitt is expected to recruit. 5 others in ACC area. It hardly seems that outrageous. Waste of time. Sure. And I still agree with Dokish that Chryst and Pitt would have been better served hiring someone on the staff with more ties to the mid-Atlantic states.
With Pitt heading to the ACC, there will be and are opportunities to expand the recruiting regionally to include Virginia, the Carolinas and Georgia (the latter seems to be already occurring). Again, that is more East Coast recruiting, and it is easier to extend from a region rather than start there.
The Ohio number does stand out, but I tend to think that has as much to do with Chryst and the prior staff’s Big Ten connections and who they knew about at Wisconsin. Not necessarily reflective of an obsession with Ohio.
This is not a rush to judgment on Chryst. Frankly I am pleased with the verbals he has gotten so far. Especially for the O-line. He will have the time to do things his way. I’m just trying to understand what his way is.
First and foremost I am way more concerned that Chryst has hired a DL coach who can get the current DL players on the roster to play to potential and excel on the field THIS YEAR. All else pales in comparison IMO because that DL is going to be a huge factor as to whether we have success in 2012 or not… and if we don’t succeed on the field this season? Then whoever is doing the recruiting won’t matter anyway because we’ll be on our collective knees begging kids to sign with PITT.
So, if Breckterfield can coach then he’s a good hire, that’s it.
Here is a substantial list on the recruiting site 24/7 that lists all of PITT’s offers at this time.
On it you’ll see that the West coast kids we offered were all 5 & 4 star recruits. Some of those are the best, nationally, at their position (Cravens and Vanderdoes). Hell, why not throw a phone call or text that way? There is no harm done and none of us fans/media types know how well known Breckterfield is over there anyway.
He recruited that are while at UCLA, Montana and Oregon St. so he’s familiar with HS football over there. Perhaps these offers are to kids he already has a relationship with and who know him. In that case there is nothing negative about doing this as it may sow seeds for the future.
Can’t hurt to offer visits to kids can it? It isn’t like Breckterfield is flying west every week, he did some recruiting when he went back to take care of personal stuff after spring practice ended I believe. Remember he wasn’t hired at PITT until Feb 1st and had to hit the ground running to be ready for March spring practices.
How can we complain about GA when we just pulled a recruit in from that state – already it is paying off as you state.
But the bottom line here is that I don’t think Chryst and his staff are thinking in terms of geography at all when it comes to recruiting as most PITT fans do. Fans want local players to watch and that makes sense, but my feeling is that Chryst is recruiting the type and talent level of player that he wants on the roster regardless of where the kid lives.
Samuelson is a case in point – he was being recruited by this staff when they were at Wisconsin. Ray Vinopal was being recruited by Wisconsin in high school – he got tons of 1st string reps in the spring and will probably end up starting here in no small part because the staff was very familiar with him from those recruiting efforts.
We had a WPIAL all-star team under DW and the results weren’t exactly what we wanted, especially his first three years. Your point about familiarity with Ohio is a valid one but that state has one major conference team in it, OSU, as opposed to PITT, PSU and WVU vying for PA recruits.
That is why so many Ohio kids end up in other Big Ten schools and why Chryst feels comfortable recruiting there. Look at the Wisconsin roster from 2011 and you’ll see a ton of OH kids on it.
I have no problem with geographical diversity as long as the staff gets the recruits they actually want to have on their roster. If those kids play in far flung states so be it just as if they all come from the tri-state area. Whichever works for the staff itself.
Secondly, if the kids were not interested, we would see a low interest or no interest level posted on their respective sites. Many put ‘medium”, which tells me that they respect the offer and understand that the offer was made because of a promise at camp 4-5 years ago that if the kid worked hard, stayed out of trouble and progressed sufficiently, the coach would find them and extend an offer.
I recall Pitt landing a DB from the state of Washington last year, which is not a typical recruiting hotspot. However, there was a prior relationship with the UNiversity. Same rationale applies. Prior relationships need to be respected for what they are. Trust and integrity will win out with High School Coaches.
Do I wish we had coaches pounding the doors in DE, NJ,PA,OH,VA, FL and MD everyday, absolutely. That will come in time. Consistency and Winning will lead to success in recruiting nationally. We have been winning more than not over the past 5 years. I expect Paul Chryst and Staff to accomplish great things over the next 5-10 years. Why, because he is consistent, knowledgeable and has integrity. Parents and kids want that in a mentor!
I will say as odd as Pitt’s recruiting thrust seems, Chryst will bring stability and success to the program. Too bad we won’t have the chance to play on a regular basis over the next few years.
I don’t see the harm in offering the west coast kids. At the very least it gets Pitt’s name out there and in the kids’ heads. None of them will ever consider Pitt unless Pitt puts themselves on their radar. Then once the groundwork is laid, who knows what could happen for the future.
Some others…
Corey Davis
Issac Bennett
Ronald Jones
LaQueti Smth
Lloyd Carrignton
Jason Frimpong
In the end, I’d prefer that the head coach hire assistants because of their coaching talents and repore with the players. If they are good assistants, then they will make the local contacts in time. I’d rather have the better coach than than just the “local guy”. Sure, it’s great if they are the same person, but that’s not always the case.
Besides, people complained for years that DW put too much emphasis on PA and NJ and didn’t recruit enough in the south and west. Now the same people are complaining that this staff is recruiting too much in the south and west. Geez, make up your minds!
I agree with HoustonPanther though – where are the QBS?
It’s like approaching women at the bar, it doesn’t matter how awesome of a dude you are, if you don’t go up to any women then you are going home alone. But on the other hand, there is always that dude that always goes after chicks way out of his league at the bar and ends up with one every so often. I say no harm in trying.
Dokish always asserts he’s right by saying he’s right. It’s what he does.
In the mean time, maybe all this hints as to why Wiscy didn’t involve our shiny new head coach in its recruiting program, which is only the most important aspect of CFB.
Hey, I’m willing to wait and see how this first year works out. But his first presser, where he said “We don”t sell, we just offer” and made other equally naiive statements, was disconcerting to say the least.
But I’ll give him this much: if it works (and I don’t think it will), everybody will mimic it because it’s cheaper and easier than making high-pressure sales to every candidate.
The problem is human nature: most of these kids are BMOCs, thus they like the attention. So if Pitt doesn’t provide it to them, then schools like the Bugeyes certainly will (and gladly).
I disagree with Dokish to a point about California: it’s dripping with D-1 recruits, perhaps more than either Florida or Texas. Cali fills most of the Pac-12 school rosters, as well as the MWC, WAC, etc. The big names in Cali will probably still stay in the Pac-12. But if Pitt makes an effort to establish a presence, some could come our way (TBD).
Shhhhhhhhhh…. please do not mention Joe D. We don’t want to have him start posting here. His “logic” will drie us all to tears!
That’s funny! Have you ever seen them bicker over whether or not that Foster WR kid will end up going to Michigan or Alabama?
hHo knows. But if you’re right, I guess that’d be like me, not just talking to myself, but arguing with myself in the mirror!
Say what you want about Brekterfield, but our 2nd commit was a D-lineman. Not sure if it was Inoke that brought him in though.
Agree on all counts with the critque of Dokish. All opinion, very little fact.
and if he doesent we wont know for sure for at least two years. then we can get mad if the kids dont pan out lets wait till at least LOI day. before we lose our minds but it does piss me off that penn state has 6 players that are 4 star and us none i hate them to beat us at any thing.
but we must wait and see what happens.
From the 32 picks, their high school ratings going into college were:
*Four were rated five stars
*Twelve were rated four stars and one was a JC who was rated two stars out of high school
*Nine were rated two stars
*Six of the 32 were not ranked out of high school.
I believe this coaching staff has the experience to make the right selections.
Larry Fitz was beyond the expected footprint. He wasn’t bad was he.
It isn’t important that anyone understand Chrysts’ plan except Chryst.
What we really need to start doing… is winning some of these frickin nationally televised games.
And winning them convincingly.
Oh and BRING BACK SCRIPT PITT and the Old Gold and Pitt blue !!!! Everyone across the nation from 1972 to 1997 new us from our classic uniforms and colors. Another Pederson disaster, the Pittsburgh branding thing with the Groundhog on the helmet. How many mistakes can one guy get away with ???????
The old unis were distinctive and let TV viewers instantly know they were watching Pitt.
I would like to see the Script back again due to its distinctiveness.
However I would settle for compromise where Pederson gets his block style Pitt monogram but with a commitment made to the brighter blue and true gold which was visible behind Chryst at his first news conference.
That would be a lot sharper than the current blue and gold.
Hey, even Notre Dame mixes it up a bit once in awhile.
“Larry Fitgerald – University of Pittsburgh”
etc, etc.
A player in HS saying I want to be a kick-ass player like (fill in the blank) doesn’t miss the fact that his “hero” players attended a certain school. Perhaps our run of successful running backs in the pro ranks did have some influence on young men like Mr. Shell ! Kind of like – that school is a breeding ground for this or that type of player and that’s what I want. Hope HC keeps the RB flame going and adds DL and OL to that thought process.
I believe this staff will be successful. Chryst has made it clear, it his and the staff’s job to coach the players up to their maximum potential. The link JD posted was revealing. 15 of the first round picks in the 2012 NFL Draft were 3* or lower. Can’t help but think most if not all of them were productive HS players who translated that into college ball…
You remember this don’t you? Really, did you think we would forget that you were wrong on Fen 24th also?
link to panthersprey.blogspot.com
I showed you, months ago, that all the major colleges in this area did not have their OCs out recruiting more than one or two players, usually QB. This is what PITT did under DW, what OSU has done in the past and what PSU did under Paterno.
The majority of the schools do not have OCs out beating the recruiting trail.
Please try to remember what has already been shown to you before you use the same old, tired and bogus, criticism of Chryst & recruiting.
Here’s the entire comment:
“Imma Man – “”Wiscy didn’t ALLOW him to recruit because he sucked at it and hated it to boot.” Hmmmm…?
I’ll name one other school who didn’t have their OC recruiting much…
PITT under Dave Wannstedt. He didn’t have Cavanaugh out recruiting areas either but I have no idea, nor do you, what the reason was. Just as you have no idea why Bielema had Chryst just recruiting certain positions. Both he and Chryst averaged about the same in the number of targets they had per year.
But here’s my take on that – if you look at who recruited the Wisconsin recruits over the past years you will see that both Bostad and Rudolph were ace recruiters and had national reputations in that field. Bielema didn’t need Chryst to be out pounding the recruiting trail. Just as PITT had other recruiters who could do the same for PITT.
BTW – look a few miles east of PITT. Galen Hall the OC at PSU for the last eight years didn’t recruit AT ALL, no once because PSU wanted him to concentrate on being the OC.
Then – take a look a few miles west of PITT. Jim Bollman, the OC at OSU didn’t recruit at all during his first five years there then did sparingly, save one year, after that.
I’m sure I can find tons of other OCs at other schools to refute your off the hip claim should I try.
The fact is that Chryst was recruiting equal to or way more than all three listed above (the only three schools I looked at BTW, 100% opposite of what you wrote) while he was at Wisconsin. But don’t let that get in the way of your rather insulting “observations” about Paul Chryst.
I think you and Joe D project things sometimes in your posts. Joe d said the other day that no other D1 program has ever skipped a Junior Day. Really? He knows this how?
Just as you did above saying that Chryst wasn’t “allowed” to recruit which is is flat out wrong. Do your research – he was asked to recruit selected players during his time at Wisconsin.”
“Fact is, Wiscy didn’t ALLOW him to recruit because he sucked at it and hated it to boot. Name me another major program that doens’t let their OC out to recruit? [sound of crickets].
The fact that he’s not a journalist doesn’t bother me as neither are Chas or me. We all just throw up tidbits of what we have heard, read or have come to understand and then we post our opinions, usually with links, about it.
Dokish does the same although his stuff is way more self-centric than ours as he doesn’t include links to other works on his blog. The only thing I don’t like over there is when commenters disagree with him and he goes crazy justifying his opinion by running down their’s.
I know I have reactions on here about things also but it isn’t because of differing football opinions – I acknowledge that we all have ideas about PITT football. It is when someone accuses me of any relationship or contact I may have with others in or close to the program sways my writing – then I get pissed because I specifically try not to do that.
Anyway, I check that site everyday to see what he has to say. I will say that the comments and commenters on there are Blather quality. There are one or two posters on there (and the Zeise Red Shirt Diaries) who try to dominate the conversations and it drives people away.
The parents and high school coaches will see that this approach shows a genuine interest in their son by our coach. What I do understand is sports psychology and this is a great tactic to use as a coach, but it takes time for the adults to grasp. The large group approach is attractive to the kids who may tend to get in trouble (i.e. Miami,OSU,Oregon, USC, etc), and look for handouts. That is a seedy approach.
Coach Chryst gets it, now let him go do it for 2-3 years and then get back to me. Have you noticed that academics is mentioned in all these young mens bios? Not saying we are Stanford academically yet, but we are trending towards smart athletes, not athletes that smart off. Listen, I am a terrible blogger about a lot of issues, but I understand the totality of the circumstances and focus mainly on the cerebral part of sport processes.
I did suggest to Smiley 3 years ago that they approach DW about hiring a bench coach to game manage behind the scenes, keeping DW as the HC, but deferring strategy, timeouts and playcalling in certain instances in someone elses hands. That approach works, but smiley wouldn’t do it as he was too proud since he didn’t think of it first. Would have led to one or two more victories per year more. Now, I support PC. You go boy!
I was always under the impression that he pretty much left Cav and Cignetti alone except for the decision to go for it on 4th downs.
On the other hand there were screaming matches between DW and Bennett more than once regarding what sort of defensive packages and personnel to play.
As far as recruiting tactics I agree that at this stage Chryst is being highly selective on who he wants to sign. It is no coincidence that three of four recruits play on the offensive line and that all three fit the exact prototype Chryst had at Wisconsin; big road graders for interior line play and a pass catching TE.
OK. Ideally you would want the best of all worlds.
But maybe Chryst hired Breckterfield because he sees him as a really good coach and having the kind of personality that connects with young players. Wouldn’t that be novel?
There is no reason why Breckterfield can’t recruit D-Linemen no matter where they live if Pitt produces results on the field and he plays an important role in that.
And that I think plays into Chryst recruiting philosophy.
Build it and they will come.