WVU filed a lawsuit in its own state yesterday against the Big East. If you feel like wading through it, you can read it here (PDF). I’ve looked it over, but I haven’t practiced law in nearly a decade. So my opinion that it is pretty flimsy, but for the fact that they are attempting to have it litigated in West Virginia, is not really that of an expert. Would it surprise anyone to learn that the Circuit Court judges in Monongalia County, West Virginia all received their J.D.’s from WVU? Didn’t think so.
The gist of the case seems to be that the Big East is incompetently run, that the departures of Pitt, Syracuse and TCU means the Big East is not the conference they really joined, and that with those departures the Big East is doomed to lose their AQ status in the future. All of which, may (is) true, but irrelevant when it comes to the contract that WVU not only signed, but actively constructed:
…former West Virginia president David Hardesty, a lawyer, wrote the current Big East exit penalties, which include a $5 million departure fee and that 27-month waiting period.
I encourage everyone to read the analysis of the lawsuit by Brian Ewart of VUHoops.com. It’s a solid piece from a guy actually practicing law. I think he’s right about this primarily being about trying to force the Big East to negotiate an exit price, but I don’t think the Big East will back down on holding WVU (and Pitt and Syracuse) for at least one year.
The reason is the same one I have asserted early on. The Big East cannot exist as a recognized conference under the NCAA rules (and BCS) if they have less than 8 members. And for football, that is where they would be. The remaining 5 schools would not be able to get an automatic qualifying bid to the BCS. Who knows how the bowl tie-ins would be affected. And even though the TV contract is weak, it would likely be voided. The economic losses to the Big East and remaining football schools — to say nothing of long-term harm — would be significant and not simply remedied by extra money paid by the departing teams.
The likelihood of getting even one new team in the Big East for 2012, is rather low. Conference USA, for example, requires a one year notice to depart. As does Mountain West. Given the size and budgets of likely members — Air Force, UCF, SMU, Houston, Boise St. — and the exit fees are in line with what the Big East charges, most of those programs couldn’t afford to try and negotiate a higher exit fee to leave early.
Even independents like Navy (or BYU) would have a hard time joining by 2012. There are contracts with 12 different schools for games. An independent would have to break at least seven contracts with less than a year. Even assuming those seven contracts each have a penalty clause for breaking the agreement, that’s a significant chunk of change. Very questionable that a service academy will do that.
The only other claim is that since TCU didn’t have to stay 27 months, neither should WVU. Apparently, though, when TCU agreed to join the Big East it had an out on the 27 months if it didn’t actually play a Big East game before leaving. TCU hardly seems a great analog, since they were in a sort of limbo. They were scheduled to join in June 2012, but were in the midst of finishing out their time in the MWC. Essentially a non-voting member in the MWC and a non-voting member in the Big East.
Ewart is right, though, that the Big East could make this lawsuit a lot more fun by interpleading the Big 12 and members from that conference in a counterclaim. Remember how the SEC was very determined to get all those waivers from the Big 12 and those members before doing anything with Texas A&M? Suddenly it makes a little more sense.
The move to file in West Virginia gives rise to one question. It would appear that this case will be governed by Washington D.C. laws, as that was where the Big East was incorporated as a non-profit. I guess, I would expect that the Big East by-laws would also have a venue designation where any litigation is supposed to occur. In fact I would be floored if there isn’t one. If so, expect that one of the earliest filings by the Big East will be to dismiss based on the venue or in the alternative move the litigation to the appropriate venue.
The Big East could easily tie this up in litigation, well beyond the 27 months if it wanted. Especially by bringing in the Big 12.
Part of me would love to see this advance. The discovery would be fascinating.
that he favored the BB schools over football schools .
That is what we all have been saying for 6 months or more nice to see it in print .
Discovery would be entertaining. Somehow despite all that has happened thus far with realignment I think there’s still much more to come.
Looks like John Marinatto screwed up again!
Or else you get a visit from Chris Berman & the Syracuse Media Mafia. haha
I thought Arnold Ziffel was representing WVU and Mr. Haney would then be representing the BigEast.
Oliver is far too good a lawyer to take on a clown outfit like the BE. Mr. Haney is much more appropriate for WVU. Don’t you agree?
WVU looks ugly and petty.
Regardless of the real reasons Pitt and Syracuse look classy throughout this whole thing.
DaveD
If they had been proactive none of this would be happening. Hey at least Villanova can now get in eh?
I’ll take your word about Mr. Haney. I didn’t watch the show that closely to remember all the finer details of Haney’s cons.
I was thinking more on the order that Haney was bascially selling junk. Just like what’s left in the BE, it’s basically worthless. Sure some network will pay it something to broadcast it’s games, if it survives. Because we all know most Americans will watch virtually anything. Even Rutgers at SMU. Well maybe not most. lol
In other words, get your popcorn ready!
Do we then have to pay another exit fee?
And also wait for another 2-3 years before we can actually compete in it?
Just thought I’d add another WHAT IF, to this already surreal experience known as Expansionapocalypse to Chas and ConferencePalooza to me.
If that happened we might be playing in the BigEast till like 2020 or so. That’s a cheery thought huh. haha
Hey…..what would happen….my bad
The Catholic schools will be making more money in exit fee’s than they do at Sunday Service collection basket time. Maybe. lol
Marinara will be living the ‘never ending’ 7 course meal at Olive Garden, forever.
Or until he explodes !
Remain a class act all the way through, tipping their collective hats to the Big East upon finally leaving(whenever that may be).
This too shall pass.
BTW, good attorney joke, Why does every law school class have an even number of students???????
Every graduate has to have someone to sue once they get out of school, who would want to be the odd man or woman out??
If Georgia fires Mark Richt at the end of the year, guess who a front runner is???
Yep, Mr. Holgersen!!!
Only a rumor, but, some WVU co workers have mentioned it, and not happy about it!!
That they’re kind of offensive, or that he thinks REAL Italians would actually stoop to eating at the effing Olive Garden…
Hmmmm Ricky, should be some great games for you, against UCF, SMU and Houston in hoops!!! I’m sure you’ll get the ESPN3 PC games sometimes!!
LOL!!!
Or, will you be the hypocritical whore that we all know you are, and will be coaching in the ACC, SEC or Big 12 as soon as you get a chance.
Ricky, if you’re still at Louisville in 3 years, a public apology and dinner anywhere you like, on me!!!
Enjoy the short flights from Florida to Idaho, Big East.
My ACC law degree tells me that WVU’s claim is pretty thin, but this is all a negotiating ploy.
BTW, Army, as you might expect, is also ranked in the Rifle poll
From the Trib: “Neinas said West Virginia’s acceptance into the Big 12 was contingent on the Mountaineers’ ability to be a full-time member in 2012. The Big 12 needs at least 10 teams to fulfill its television obligations.”
This is the first that I had heard this as more than a rumor. If this is true, meaning that WVU will not be accepted unless they can join for 2012, then this is big news and not such a great deal for WVU. As others have stated above, on first glance the lawsuit almost seems frivolous and its purpose appears to be an attempt to gain some leverage in negotiations. Even if WVU could convince a court that they have a legitimate claim, litigation over breach of fiduciary duty oftentimes takes years to resolve.
At this point, it is hard to see how WVU plays in the Big 12 next year unless the Big East realizes that it does not want to split revenue with them. Is it really possible that they lose their invitation/acceptance if they can’t join by July 1, 2012?
Maybe Holgerson should note that the WVU and B12 schools’ legal departments needs an upgrade.
Then saw some of their message boards and some trolls on here. They went away humbled for a few weeks, when their world was crumbling, but being saved by the Big12, brought them back, and cocky as ever.
So, I will take the schadenfreudian approach, if somehow, the Big12/WVU would fall through!!
If that does not happen, I will look forward to Holgersen going to Georgia at the end of the season!!
I’ll take one of the two, I’m not greedy!
I know they need the teams, in the conference, to do well, for the next evaluation period.
I’ve seen a lot of places saying, that a conference must maintain 8 teams to go to a BCS bowl, even right now???
Again, not questioning, just wondering if you know this for sure??
Far fetched hypothetical. Pitt, WVU, Cuse get to bolt. New teams can’t come for a year.
You mean, one of Rutgers, Cincy, USF, UCONN or Louisville, will go to a BCS game, no matter their overall record, and with, say, a 3-2 conference record, and perhaps all 5 of them having an overall losing record???
I can’t believe there isn’t some sort of “out” for the BCS for this.
You may very well be correct.
I think some folks have raised a separate question, which is whether the NCAA would still recognize the Big East as a football conference if it had fewer than 8 teams. The reasoning is that if the Big East is no longer a football conference under NCAA guidelines, they would not be eligible to earn a BCS bid. There is a certain amount of logic in this position, but I must admit, I haven’t seen it documented anywhere (to be fair, I haven’t been looking for it either).
As you note, on a practical level, the Big East probably does not want to dip to 5 teams prior to an evaluation period as (i) it might take a hit in terms of whatever evaluation standards are put in place, and (ii) the PR would be a nightmare.
lawyers tell us how long what do you think.
Also keep in mind that this case may involve more than straightforward contract law. I have not read the Big East bylaws or other constitutional documents, but it is very possible that the dispute will at least partially be governed by corporate governance laws, which may create different liability than pure contract law. In fact, WVU’s claim of a breach of fiduciary duty appears to be rooted in this principle. As I mentioned in a previous post, claims such as these often take years to resolve.
The suit itself seems to be an attempt to gain some leverage and force negotiations. That being said, from what is known now, I am glad that Pitt is not pursuing this strategy. From my vantage point, this just seems like a very undisciplined act that is just as likely to have a negative effect as a positive.
Could they ignore an injunction if it was issued by a court (i.e.., District of Columbia or Rhode Island court) that was neither a Federal court nor a West Virginia state court?
If everyone just stays put next year (2012-13), then they can work on the moves and scheduling for the following year (2013-14). By then the Big East can have some replacements ready to go and would probably be much more willing to let WVU — along with Pitt and Cuse — leave before the full 27 months. And the Big 12 will have 10 teams each year.
In terms of ignoring the injunction, that is not likely. As long as the court has jurisdiction over the matter, the Big East could easily have it enforced by the courts of another state. If a WV court tried to rule that the other court did not actually have jurisdiction, that would set up another round of legal wrangling, but as long as the preliminary injunction was in place, WVU and the Big 12 would have to abide by it.
I would guess that the next step will either be the Big East asking for the case to be dismissed due to venue (if the Big East bylaws specify where suit needs to be filed), or remove to federal court. If it is dismissed due to venue, then WVU would have to refile in the appropriate court. If it is not dismissed, the Big East could appeal that decision, or they could try to remove the matter to federal court. As an aside, can you see why actually litigating this could take years? Heck, the questions as to venue could take months to resolve, and that is long before anything of substance occurs.
Big East has basically screwed themselves with all of these back door meetings and membership gatherings to which Pitt was not invited.
also – cannot enter into contracts without all members (new tv deals etc… pitt, wvu, and cuse can hold up EVERYTHING)
Marinatto is literally the worst leader in American corporate history – it is so hilarious to watch the Big East blow up in his face.
Some of you may remember my long winded rants regarding the attempts to bring Villanova in for football. Villanova’s program and facilities were a joke, and still are a joke. I also hinted that Pitt powers that be would take this as the last straw for the catholic basketball school favoring incompetency in Big East offices.
(Victory lap)
cannot wait to get out of the BE – who else is ready for trips to Clemson, FSU, Miami, VT for football?
That letter said that if things did not change and if a better deal came along they would take it.
Marinatto dident put mutch stock in that letter would that letter that was mailed last year be enough to knock 12 months off of the 27 months waiting peroid.
would it count as notification.
If nothing else, Nordenberg is a disciplined attorney (something that I suspect Oliver Luck may not be), and probably prefers to operate behind the scenes on this one. I think the Big East will eventually negotiate the 27 months down, but not until it is financially advantageous to do so. I just wish the Big East would get the damn invites in the mail.
with Nordenberg and AD on going to the ACC.
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