This isn’t a hit piece. Get Real. This guy clearly has issues with Wanny, that go way beyond rationalization.

Truth & Virtue

Hail to Pitt !

What does this part of this sentence mean?
Wanny never blackened the program’s eye.

The AD hiring a man of Baby Daddy’s ilk blackened the program’s eye AND THEN SOME.

And then for good measure he takes another cheap shot about Wanny & Miami.

is all you need to know about the lack of character he had.

No, this is all we need to know about the character of this Dokish person. Wanny had more character in his little finger than this clown could EVER hope to have. And accomplished far more than this guy EVER will. Blogging on the internet, wow that’s an accomplishment. NOT!

Yes, it would be difficult to hire a competent staff and to get any kids to commit for that one year, but it is the best choice in a horrible situation. There will be no chance that Pitt will be able to hire an excellent coach at this time, pure and simple. What coach would want to join this debacle right now? No one, unless you throw a lot of money at them and we all know Pitt will never do that. They could only hire a journeyman coach before, and now the situation is even worse so it’s ludicrous to think anything better than an interim coach will work. And even that may not work, but it’s the only reasonable option if Pederson is fired. If he’s not fired then it won’t matter who they hire because the program is over as we know it.
posted by Chris Dokish @ 11:32 PM

Basically everything in this paragraph was 100%
wrong!
So why anyone reads his blog is beyond me.

Oh, and btw, he wrote “unless you throw a lot of money at them”, and they DID. So he wasn’t wrong. And the program may be over for all we know, and he would be right again. Personally, I usually like what Dokish writes, but when I don’t, I don’t make a big deal about it. It’s his OPINION. If you don’t like it, who cares? I’m sure he doesn’t because he obviously doesn’t even know you exist. Move on with your life.

BTW, folks in Monaca like to point out that Foster is a “Monaca kid”. And the Center folks come back with how many Center kids are starters for CV. Even though they all now root for CV, the old Center-Monaca rivalry is still there.

@Stoosh
I posted the same hope about Shell luring Foster when Shell’s announcement was made. I don’t know how well they know each other or get along. Sometimes it works the other way if they don’t like each other.

Unfortunately, all of the usual suspects that come after the top WPIAL players have him on their lists: Pitt, PSU, Ohio State and Notre Dame. I’m sure if he continues to shine like he did on ESPNU last week, there will be even more. Let’s hope he and Shell are best buds and Shell does what Cam did a few years back by working other guys in the area to commit to Pitt.

Only a handful of his players played well in big games…Shady, Dion, Ray Graham, Bill Stull (don’t hate – he’s underappreciated) and the D-Line in general.

He should have left with more dignity. He got fired for underperforming and losing control of the team…see aforementioned SI article.

I was in the Wanny fan section up until the Cincy game. Not only did they melt down, the offseason was horrendous with player arrest and then they followed it up with a stinker of a season. In year 6, with the expectations and players returning Pitt should not have taken a step back. In 6 seasons, Wanny had 1 good season.

2005 5-6 BAD
2006 6-6 BAD
2007 5-7 BAD
2008 9-4 Mediocre
2009 10-3 Good
2010 7-5 BAD

What about this record justifies keeping him. What about this record would give you the impression that he was “blindsided” by the firing?

The reason everyone “bashes” Wanny to stick up for Graham is because he is our only reference point. You compare the new coach to the old coach. They need different players for their systems and they have different coaching philosphies.

Could SP have handled the firing better…absolutely but Wanny should have also taken responsibility for his failures as well.

When people constantly defend Wanny as coach of Pitt, they open him up to this criticism.

EMel, I agree that we’re all passionate and love our University and that is why we gather here.

For all the Graham bashers, what justifies the criticism when you look at Wanny’s record here? We gave Wanny 4 seasons to get ABOVE .500 and he inherited a better team than Graham did…he at least had a D1 QB.

The comment, ‘The difference between Pitt and Ohio State is that Ohio State knew when to stop. Pitt didn’t know when to stop.’ I guess they meant with regard to continuing to try to pass when it was obvious they couldn’t.

I didn’t watch the game because of a weekly golf commitment, one reason I hate noon game times. I did listen to the end on Sirius and DVR’d the game. Just can’t bring myself to play it, but based on comments here, it seems like TG abandoned the run because Utah was stacking the line to stop him.

As I said after Rutgers, expect that for the rest of the year. If the receivers can’t get open in one-on-one coverage, the line can’t hold for more than 2 seconds and the QB can’t pass over 20 yards, that strategy will stop High Octane every time.

If Graham is going to stick with Tino, for whatever reason, he’s got to make some changes elsewhere. Get the quick receivers in there, roll Tino out more, change the blocking schemes, keep Hubie in the backfield to chip a rusher and become a taller outlet option, something, anything different to get something, anything out of the passing game. Obviously what they’re doing now ain’t working, regardless of who’s quarterbacking!

And before someone says “Myers is the answer” I’ll say you’re dreaming. He may have a great arm and he may be more mobile than we think, but he’s primarily a drop-back passer who needs time to set up. So we start losing 12-15 yards on sacks instead of 7-10. That’s a great tradeoff for maybe completing one long pass each game. And being 6’4″ gives you little advantage when guys of equal size are coming at you straight up and untouched.

I for one would rather see Gonzalez get a shot before Myers. At least his athleticism might help him make a big run or pass here and there to keep the defensive rush a little more honest.

And I’m sorry, but that kind of stuff sets me off because to a point, it’s horribly ignorant. It makes it sound in part like Wanny was unjustifiably dismissed when, in reality, he was a coach who was given plenty of time to get his program and his players in place, and yet failed each time to win what was by many accounts an average conference.

That culminated last season with what was arguably the single most-talented team the program has had in at least 20 years. Yet he still managed to find new ways to disappoint and fall absolutely flat in the most important moments of the season – the Miami game, the ND game, the UConn game in which they pretty much had control of their own destiny, and then finally the Backyard Brawl.

And I get the sense that his tenure at Pitt is largely defined by just that – ugly failure every time he had a chance to elevate the program to a conference champion.

The sentiment that I was seeing espoused in comments like that is steeped in ignorance. I was a huge fan of Wannstedt and never really wavered in my support of him until about halfway through last year.

Criticism of Graham is fine as there’s certainly room there for it. And just as there’s no need to cut Wanny off at the knees to prop Graham up, I’d expect something a little more responsible and thought out from the regular media types.

Winning only 7, 8 or 9 (or, perhaps, 10 games in DW’s case) renders a coach mediocre. But I have to give you guys credit for being optimistic and never giving up. Keep firing those coaches. Who knows? Perhaps in another 70 years, Pitt may once again hire a coach who is a level above mediocre.

Finally, decided to take the plunge into posting. I can only handle so much Wanny was awesome talk. I used to be a huge Wanny guy and I used to say “oh a play here or there.” But come on. Wanny was a Pitt guy. A Pitt guy who underperformed in every big game and whose program took a step back last year. A program that was also featured in a SI cover story about off field problems. He deserved to be fired. Wanny supporters get over it. He’s gone and he won’t be coming back.

Now onto Coach Graham. He is running an entirely new system with players ill equipped to run it. You invest in Coach Graham not for the wins and losses this season but for the future. Besides even with new systems on both sides of the ball Pitt hasn’t been blown out. In 3 of the 4 losses this year Pitt had a chance at the end of the game to win the game. If the roster actually had a legit QB, Pitt could easily be 6-1 or maybe even 7-0. In college you need good QBs. And guess what? Coach Graham has the 5th best QB in the nation coming to Pitt next year. Let’s save the sky is falling Coach Graham sucks talk if Pitt’s offense is horrible all next year.

Hail to Pitt!

“Big Game” is a nebulous thing, but there are certain games in any given season that have the ability to define a team, a coach, and in some cases a program. DW wasn’t able to win any of these. His signature win was essentially a 13-9 victory that meant almost nothing to Pitt beyond the emotional uplift of crushing the hopes of ones rival. In the context of wins and losses, it didn’t mean much at all – it was buttercream icing on a crap-cake season. The only reason I bring any of this up is that I think it’s naive to think that this inability to win the “big games” didn’t have a profound impact on the administration and their decision to relive him of duties. I think it was this, as much as anything else, that ultimately defined DW’s tenure at Pitt.

“But that’s just, like, my opinion, man…” 🙂

I never said that any of the other coaches were great, I simply said Wanny was the most stubborn and that being upset over Graham’s insistence on implementing his new offense was going overboard… especially considering the past 6 years.

I don’t like to bad mouth people but in this case it is the only way to get the point across that the coaching change made at Pitt was a good thing.

The only way to break free from that mediocrity is to take chances or spend money and Pitt did both here.

Part of being a fan is optimism, why even watch the games or root for the school if you believe all is lost?

2005 5-6 BAD
2006 6-6 BAD
2007 5-7 BAD
2008 9-4 Mediocre
2009 10-3 Good
2010 7-5 BAD
Comment by Tossing Thabeets 10.19.11 @ 8:48 am

Since when is 9-4 mediocre. It got us to our BEST BOWL GAME (the Sun Bowl) since 1984, other than the WH fiasco against Utah in the Fiesta Bowl.
6-6 is mediocre as it will get you to a Bowl Game.
Which is the end all in college football. Even if it’s a crummy bowl. It gets you extra practice time and another National TV game.

10-3 for Pitt is excellent, being that it was the first 10 win season since 1982. I mean get real.
Walt Harris NEVER won 10 games, JM II of course didn’t, Paul Hackett of course didn’t, Mike Gottfried did not, nor did Foge Fazio.

Wanny’s last year was 8-5 not 7-5 which is a good year. I’ll assume that was a unintentional slip up.

Please quit with this non-sense. When TG wins 27 games in 3 years then we’ll say well he’s done good.

Aaaaaa……13-9 wasn’t a ‘Big Game’.

We beat ND at ND with Pat Bostick at QB also.
Not a ‘Big Game’.

The win over UNC in the Bowl Game was a huge Game.
For it got PITT to 10 wins for the first time in forever, like 1982. Not a Big Game.

STOP WITH THIS NON-SENSE. The guy is gone, leave his record and legacy alone.

This venom and irrational hate directed towards a guy(DW) who produced PITT’s best 3 seasons in a row since Jackie Sherrill is clinical and should be studied by pathologists.

Wardapalooza, thanks for clarifying the TG vs. DW issue. I see your point. TG’s best QB (Sunseri) can’t throw the ball more than 20 yards, can’t see over the OL because he is short, and is not quick enough to avoid being tackled. TG is doing the best that any can hope considering the QB situation.

On the other hand, Pitt got rid of DW because he underperformed. Last year he had an outstanding QB (Sunseri). In spite of this, Pitt was able to win only 8 games. A truly mediocre season.

Now everything makes sense.

What would you call Rutgers 34 Pitt 10 ?

And we got lucky Utah played without their starting QB and star WR, because they most certainly would have blown out Pitt as well.

The last 2 games have produced the most anemic offense I’ve see at PITT since the 1996 season, when we were shutout 3 times. And lost by an average of 20 ppg.

But I’ll be damned if I’ll let the facts be distorted and twisted.

Truth & Virtue

Hail to Pitt !

Some of these arguments are not based in logic and reason. I’ve heard the ability to critically think is waning in this country. And I believe it.

Must be all the chemicals people are ingesting.

End of Story !

Good luck with that!

The reason Wanny was “asked to resign” was that he lost control of the team off the field and eventually on the field. Many guys flat out quit on him against WVU with a chance to win the Big East outright on the line.

Some of those same guys are quitting on Graham this year. He needs to correct that one way or another, or he’ll be lucky not to finish in last place in the worst BCS conference in the country.

And Dokish’s post had one small section devoted to Wannstadt as part of a much larger piece about some of the numerous fan reactions to the current state of the Pitt football team. You can’t parse that from the whole and call it a “hit piece”.

And, melvinbennett, you should be careful about putting down bloggers. After all, your playground here would not exist if not for the excellent efforts of the bloggers on this site.

Tossing, Pitt has had a glorious football past. In the past 70 years, Pitt has had many head coaches. Please name two coaches that you would like to resurrect to again coach here at Pitt.

Tampa, interesting comment. Do you have insider information? Was this something that SP said at a presser? Is it a Tampa supposition?

Despite that, Wanny got a three year pass when taking over to play the “cupboard is bare, these are Walt’s kids” card. And what did he do with “his guys”… he won 26 games in his last 3 seasons. (I’ll assume it was an unintentional slip up that you forgot he didn’t actually coach the final bowl game). Sounds familiar right??!! But let’s not forget that Walt coached in a Big East that included Miami, VT and BC while Wanny got to coach in the Little Sisters of the Poor version. Yet somehow Walt is a joke and Wanny is the great “Pitt Guy” who’s legacy can’t be tarnished.

I’ll admit I never liked the Wanny hire for one second. However, I’ll be forever grateful for 13-9 and he did give us a very good 2008 (despite the Sun Bowl fiasco) and an excellent 2009 (despite giving up 45 points to Cincy). However please don’t tell me 2010 was a good year. 2010 was an abject failure and ultimately got him fired. It started with the offseason issues and continued with national humiliations against Miami and WVU and calling timeout to punt against ND (an ND team that TG’s inferior C-USA talent beat by the way) and losing a must win game to UConn all the way to how the firing was handled by everyone involved.

Meanwhile, apparently TG gets just 7 games to play the same cupboard is bare card. And make no mistake, the cupboard is completely bare in regards to what TG wants to do. The QB is a square peg at best, the O-Line is in shambles, the WR’s are horrible and the LB’s might be even worse. Most of these players are the exact opposite of what Graham is looking for.

Dokish in fact says that Wanny would probably have a better record with this group of players.

The on-file stuff was very obvious if you attended any games rather than watched them on TV. I attended more games than you might think so don’t give me that “Tampa” stuff.

Lots of antics on the sideline. Guys staring off into the stands or goofing among themselves instead of watching the game on the field or paying attention to the coaches. Players copping an attitude with coaches and even Wanny when he tried to talk with them, like one very well discussed incident between Wanny and Tino.

And what would YOU call that effort against WVU? I was there freezing my ass off, and it was sickening. Are you really going to come up with something other than they flat out quit? WVU was that much better? I think not.

And many “insiders” did point to the control issue and it’s effect on the university’s image as the main reason for the move.

I tried to back you on the record issue and stop the Wanny bashing by saying Graham has the same issues and needs to fix them. You seem to want to keep this going. Give it a rest.

Pitt89, for the record, I was not in favor of firing Walt Harris. I am not in favor of the “grass is always greener” philosophy. TG will get discharged in 5 or 6 years due that philosophy, and we start all over again.

As far as the cupboard, “completely bare”???
As near as I can tell, there are three main aspects to a team: offense, defense and special teams. Do you have an issue with the players available for the special teams?

Defense: Any issue with the players on the line? In the secondary? The LB’s are not going to make All-American, but some of us believe that they are athletes.

Offense: Any “cupboard” problem with Ray Graham? Did you read about the praise TG was giving Tino’s during spring practice? Based upon Tino’s numbers from last year, any suspicion that he can actually throw the ball, given proper coaching.

The WR’s? Shanahan dropped a couple that should not have been dropped, but the WR’s are those who caught a lot of passes last year and made Tino look very respectable.

The OL line? Well, when Ray Graham runs for 200 yards, at least he is not critical of the OL.

Tampa, you gave a good, believable response as to reasons for the firing of DW.

As to my wanting to keep this going, you are correct. I think that it makes for an interesting discussion. There are many comments and opinions being offered. Some interesting thought processes being suggested.

Here’s what I meant, and I’m pretty sure you understood what I meant…

Tino is a terrible fit for this offensive philosophy. I think we can all agree on that. And I’m still not sure why people keep saying Tino was so good last year. He had two really good games against terrible teams (Syracuse and Rutgers) that produced 600 yards and 7 td’s and greatly skewed his overall stats.

Ray Graham… I made no mention of the RB’s or Graham. You just put that in there for whatever reason. Ray is maybe the only good fit on offense from the holdovers.

Spring Practice compliments… What is the head coach supposed to say. My QB sucks, we’re doomed!! Maybe he is a good practice player that can’t quite put it together on game day. He wouldn’t be the first.

The WR’s while maybe good in a pro set are once again the exact opposite of what TG wants. They are big, tall, long striding players who have trouble getting off the line. TG wants smaller, quicker guys who can quickly beat press coverage and be at top speed. I don’t think that describes Street or Shanahan. Oh yeah and the best of the bunch left early.

The O-Line… I said in shambles which they are without their two best players. If you think the o-line is playing well you might be the only one. Also these guys are not the profile TG is looking for.

On Defense… TG wants to run an attacking 3-4 style of defense with speed and blitzing. Wanny ran a 4-3. Someone of your obvious football acumen must understand the difference. LB’s are the key to any 3-4 defense. We don’t have the necessary athletes at LB for this system. Even the DL while solid is not what TG wants. In a 3-4 the D-Line should be big, space taking, blocker absorbing guys. Again, the exact opposite of what 4-3 DE’s should be.

Sorry for the reaction, but I was surprised that you did your “BigGuy thing” with my comment when it was meant to back you.

I too throw questions/comments out when I want to keep a thread of interest going myself, so I should have considered that. Apologies, and instead carry on!

You’ve pretty much hit it on head regarding the difficulty of the transition that TG faces. That’s why IMO he gets a 3 year pass just like we gave Wanny.

Someone said Graham should have been more up front about that instead of saying Pitt could contend for the Big East title this year. In hindsight that might be true, but I don’t think he’s wired that way. I think he’s wired to raise expectations not play them down. That’s one thing I like about the guy, and I think it will attract kids who want to compete on a high level.

“Oh and thanks for telling me there were three main aspects to a football team… I had no idea. The punter and kicker have been especially impressive.”

Any comments on the return teams

“Here’s what I meant, and I’m pretty sure you understood what I meant…”

When you said that the cupboard was completely bare, you did not mean that the cupboard was not completely bare???? (Whew! I was about to call TG a liar. He was quoted as saying that DW did not leave the cupboard bare.)

“And I’m still not sure why people keep saying Tino was so good last year.”

Maybe it was because he completed almost two-thirds of his passes. Had a 1.78 TD pass/interception ratio.

“Ray Graham… I made no mention of the RB’s or Graham.”

Ray Graham was not in the cupboard????

“Spring Practice compliments… What is the head coach supposed to say. My QB sucks, we’re doomed!!”

How about, “The players are working hard, but it is going to take awhile so don’t have high expectations initially.”

“TG wants smaller, quicker [WR’s] who can quickly beat press coverage and be at top speed.”

WR’s that are similar to Cameron Saddler?

“The O-Line… I said in shambles”

No argument (but I question that Ray Graham is doing it strictly on his own.)

“On Defense… TG wants to run an attacking 3-4 style of defense with speed and blitzing. .. We don’t have the necessary athletes at LB for this system.”

Are you trying to tell me that TG is trying to pound a square peg into a round hole???

“Even the DL while solid is not what TG wants.”

Is it your prediction that TG will recruit better athletes (football players) than we now have for the DL? TG wants the big, slow type where mobility is not a concern??? Interesting

First of all, not everyone would’ve departed Hynoski for one would’ve stayed and I doubt the TE would’ve bolted for Wisconsin(sorry forget his name).

This would’ve provided more dump off abilities for Tino.

I think the running game would’ve likely been somewhere where it’s at today statistically.

My guess is they would’ve won against Iowa, lost against ND, and would’ve split between USF/Rutgers just like Graham did.

Utah–I really don’t know if a Wanny team wins it or not. I mean the Utah D would’ve stuffed the run game regardless of Wanny/Graham. So it’s a 50-50 shot at best

So in the end we would be sitting probably at 4-3 or 5-2. We still would likely lose to WVU and at least one more game between Cincy, Louisville, UConn, Syracuse.

So at best–Wanny would have given us 8-4 or 7-5.

I think giving Graham a little more time over Wanny Groundhog’s day is preferable.

DaveD

In Ziese’s Q&A today he mentions that Pitt is one of handful of teams that have lost at least 3 games for the last 30 years. The operative word being HANDFUL. It was time to try and dig ourselves out of mediocrity.

I agree that the off field stuff is what got him fired. The University caught wind of the investigation in November and made the move right after the season. His record certainly didn’t help him though.