Guys, let me apologize for not weighting in earlier. I started a new full time job on Monday and that, combined with my disgust of the RU game, had me staying away from the computer this week.
Chas was on the mark with his last post. We have real problems at QB. Neither QB has played well this season save for one game by Sunseri.
As to the team ‘turning’ on him I don’t know the dynamics of the locker room but this isn’t the first time the offensive players have turned their backs on Sunseri when he was on the ground after a sack. It happened more than once last season also. The player’s vote of confidence aside, he had real problems with his teammates last year and it looks to be continuing.
It’s nice to see nothing has changed with the ‘play Myers’ crowd over the last week though.
Which brings me to this point – I wrote earlier in the year, numerous times, that I believed Graham was going to institute his new offense during the 2011 season come Hell or high water and, well, here we are. It is pretty evident that is what is happening. He’s not just coaching for 2011 really; he’s getting things in place for next season when the roster is tilted a bit more towards having the type of player he wants out there and the new system’s learning curve has flattened out.
This is why we most probably aren’t going to see Myers in there this year – unless we have drastic injuries. It really doesn’t serve any purpose now because the season isn’t a lost cause yet, then when it is, if it is, Graham will have even more incentive to try to get the two established QBs work.
I have also said I’d like to see Myers play in a game situation because I like the way he throws the ball. I do agree with not playing him if you are serious about instituting the new offense, but think they need to give him enough for an audition tape when he starts shopping his services…which he will do, or already has done.
But, I really did think that Sunseri could function well in this offense as long as the normal progress that a 2nd year starter experiences held true for Sunseri. That didn’t happen. His problem in 2011 is exactly the same problems he had in 2010. Those are his uncertainty after the snap, locking onto a receiver, holding the ball too long and IMO, self-doubt. They are magnified with the quick offense that Graham brought to us when the key requisite is that quick decision and throw. He just can’t do it with any regularity whatsoever.
We can point to the OL for those sacks I suppose, but that 28 number would be drastically less if Sunseri was able to execute as taught and required.
I’m not even going up to the Utah game, it’s not worth the nine hour drive the way I feel about this team right now. I usually let losses roll off my back as part of the game but for the first time in years I feel really let down – even worse than the Cincy loss in 2009 if truth be told because I really thought this team had promise.
The reason for this is that I think the players have pretty much lost interest and that will kill a team faster than injuries. I don’t mean every player, but the seniors who should be really leading this squad. This saddens me and makes me pull back emotionally a bit. But hey, if PITT wins tomorrow I may feel completely different… who knows?
Unfortunately, he is the best we have, another thing we can blame on Wanny, no D1 QBs. I know many think we should chuck the season and put in the other guys, but I am pretty sure Graham would do this if he though it might work. For those that think he would rather play Sunseri than win because of some coaching fraternity, c’mon.
Hey, I would like to see Meyers sling a few too, but I trust that the coach knows best, at least for now.
Q: I notice when Tino got sacked late in the Rutgers game no one came to his aid. Is there a morale problem on the Pitt team? Is Tino losing this team?
Dave Dellett, Kapolei, Hawaii
ZEISE: I don’t see that as being an issue. Sunseri actually wasn’t very popular last year because a lot of the veteran guys thought he was too cocky for their tastes, especially as a first-year starter. But he worked hard in the spring to win over his teammates and he was elected as one of the captains. Even Todd Graham said he didn’t think Sunseri would have been elected in the spring but he was in the fall because of the leadership he showed over the summer. I wouldn’t read too much into that, the players are behind Sunseri, the team is just frustrated
That is if this is the case and I’m leaning toward believing that it is building up to it if it hasn’t already arrived. I do hope I’m wrong though…
But none of these seniors are in the team’s future anyway or are really benefiting from this 2011 season. The new offense and defense systems haven’t showcased any of their individual talents. Both Nix and Jacobson regressed as players in this offense before they were hurt; Lindsay is sharing time with other, younger LBs; Gruder and G. Williams weren’t destined as draft picks and have had to share PT with new guys; Hargrove has never done anything and saw his PT, when he finally got some, shared with newer kids and Tristan Roberts is in the same boat; Caragein and Alecxih went from being the sure strength of the defense to being guys whose job it is to hold the OL so that the LBs can try to make plays; Buddy Jackson and Reed are… well they just are who they are, continual disappointments.
There isn’t a bunch of motivation to be found for the seniors there anyway especially when considering that the HC who nurtured (pampered) them for three or four years was ingloriously shitcanned. Top that off with those big changes, Graham’s emphasis on playing newcomers and our close losses, and those had to be morale killers especially with the grandiose promises we heard from the staff, and it’s a real formula for senior apathy IMO.
I really do think that that loss last week wasn’t the end of the season but I wonder if it didn’t just make those seniors more apt to care less about the team’s present and future and the underclassmen, then they would in a normal non-drama filled year.
But I’m also not laying this all at the feet of Todd Graham or his staff. This isn’t the first time we’ve seen this happen in PITT’s recent history at all. It sure as hell happened last year even before DW was fired, our kids checked out of a few games during the 60 minutes of play – there were screaming arguments between the staff members and between the players and between the players and staff in the locker room at halftime and on the practice fields on more than one occasion.
And it was very prevalent over DW’s first few years. You can liken what Sunseri has been experiencing to exactly the same thing that Palko engendered with his presence and attitude, there were real problems in the locker room also over the 2005-6 seasons.
As I said, I hope I’m reading too much into this but it feels this way to me. The team that we fielded last weekend was beaten during the first quarter of play it seemed and that was when we had some actual week to week momentum to point to for the first time this year. That isn’t good at all.
2nd, Reed .. once again, the total focus is on the QB even though Coach Graham said that the Rutgers loss is not on the QB.
Further, Zeise made the point yesterday that almost every time that Tino went back to pass, there was no receiver open. Yea, he could have dumped the ball a few times buy everone needs to do their job and clearly the OL and the WRs were every bit as fault.
It should also be noted that Rotheram will now start at off tackle because Hollins was clearly ove his head last Saturday.
Again, I can care less if Tino takes another snap, but to deem that all the issues on this team is attributed to the QB is laughable.
We all know that for this offense to work effectively there are certain things a QB has to do well. He’s 2/3s of the triple option as opposed to 1/2 in either dropping back to pass or handing off… there was no option feature in his offense last season.
Therefore his play is completely integral. Granted, he’s still the best we have so far but he’s the trigger and he’s been misfiring. Had the receivers made a few easy receptions we may have a different outlook as well as if the OL played better on Saturday… but the OL really was protecting him for the required three second period in the previous five games and save for the USF game his problem were still happening.
Put it this way – if his play doesn’t drastically improve I think we’ll be 6-6 at best and that’s with some monster games from Graham and the defense.
Yes, Wanny never reached the level he was expected to reach and hopefully the new coach will, but Graham himself said that there is no reason that the current team shouldn’t win the BE. And since he was lavishly praised for this, there should be no making excuses for any failures.
The team was completely unprepared las Saturday and that not only goes on the players, it also points to the coaching staff. (Hell, can you imagine how many pot shots would have been taken at Wanny if his team incurred a penalty of haveing two No. 5s on the field at that same time?)
I didn’t see any “Quit” in the team in general against Rutgers. I just saw a team getting their asses whipped by a team that wanted it more and they couldn’t recover due to poor performance on their own part.
Now after you get kicked in the teeth like that, how you respond, especially in a non conference game, the next week DOES demonstrate the mindset of the team going forward.
Football, like life, tends to be just a series of problems strung together that routinely screws with your head. How you pick up the pieces and move on spells the difference between success and failure.
Coach Graham has a big job ahead of him. This game will be a tough one if he finds that the team is still hanging it’s collective head after last week’s loss. It could also serve as a wake up call and a rally point to challlenge these kids to get up off the floor and get back into the fight.
I think Pitt showed their potential in the USF win. Everything went right for them in that game. In all three of their losses, things went wrong, last week really, really wrong!
How Coach Graham deals with that will spell the difference between victory and defeat tomorrow. Pitt could easily win against Utah if everything clicks or they could get beaten badly if things go sour. It depends on how they execute AND their mindset.
Bad news is, if they do lose tomorrow IMO, the rest of the season turns into an up hill battle. Momentum hasn’t quite been in Pitt’s favor this season so far and when they did have the opportunity to capitalize on it going their way they shit the bed against Rutgers.
A loss tomorrow and this analysis by Reed will have a lot more validity going forward. With a win, who knows? In any case Graham has got his hands full right now. Hopefully he can keep this team’s head in the game and into the future.
On the other hand what else would we expect a nw HC to say when hired? That it will be a rebuilding year so ‘Hey everyone, let’s lower our expectations’?
I feel that if we didn’t have these mistakes by the players on the field we’d have a different attitude about Graham’s 1st year so far.
Imagine if our two returning WRs, Street and Shanahan, would have caught those easy passes to them. We’d have beaten ND and overall put up more points. I didn’t expect those two to crap out like they have… did anyone else expect it?
Had Sunseri been able to complete at least one, deep pass – only one! – it would have meant different play from the defenses we faced.
Had our defensive players been able to hold onto five dropped INTs things would have been different – two of those would have gone for pick-6s.
I can’t fault Graham for those plays and they all contributed directly to our losses… those are all one the players themselves and have nothing at all to do with coaching or systems or attitude… it is just damn poor play.
I can honestly say that we have lost only one game due to poor defensive play – the Iowa game. Everything else is on the offense’s shoulders and IMO could have been avoided if some of our players could have executed fundamental play out there.
I don’t disagree that a lot of the issues are mental, but I’m not sure that they players have “lost interest”. It may be that they’ve lost faith. That may be a bigger problem, because it could linger into next year unless TG corrects things this year.
As anyone who has played sports or closely follows sports – which pretty much covers this group – knows, success really comes when players buy in 100% to what the coach is selling. I think that’s become an issue. High octane has only revved up one time really, and I think doubt is creeping in.
I agree it starts at the QB position, and it’s not because like many, I want to slam Tino. You know I’ve defended him perhaps more than he deserved, last year and this year. I’ve just come to the conclusion that he’s either not a gamer or he’s never bought in 100%.
As you said, that position is the key to making High Octane work. You need that guy to be 100% in the game in this offense. You don’t necessarily need Denard Robinson, but you need a guy whose head is in the right place all the time.
All of the issues this year are solely the players’ blame
All of the issues this year are solely the players’ blame
Ad Nauseum: Yes, there are many positions that are not playing well. I think most people understand that.
Just because other areas of the team are not playing well, the qb posistion does not get a free pass!!!
His play has been absolutely horrible for a year and a half, except for a couple games here and there where he showed some promise, and lured me into thinking he was going to turn the corner only to be disappointed the next 3 weeks.
Hey, I’m cheering for the guy to be successful, I don’t know him from Adam, his family has some fantastic provolone!!!
Reed, I’m almost off the “play the other qb” thing, that I am a proponent of, but Graham’s the coach, whatever. Two things bug me.
1. Please don’t anyone tell me about the back up qb’s aren’t good enough. Playing a series or two is not enough time to judge fudge!!
2. I know I’m jumping way ahead, sorry, I have to ask………..Suneri are QB next year????
Wbb does not seam to get that with him the wr is running the the wrong route or it is the o lines fult.
may be he Wbb will see the lite .
Myers can throw, but can’t run, they say.
Either of them would need at least a game or even two, to let them get a feel for the game, and to see if either one could use some of their abilities to help the team win. Not thrown in for a series and yanked.
I just wanted to point out, I don’t think either one is superman, maybe they would play as poorly as Tino or worse, but, we’re getting to the point, (kind of the opposite of what you said Coach Graham’s thinking may be) that why not throw one of them in, to save the season????
If your double post was directed at my post, all I’ll say is 6 months versus 6 years. In 5 1/2 years, I may have a different opinion of TG’s tenure.
I had nothing against Wanny. Really hoped he would have succeeded. Wasn’t thrilled with the hire because of his record as a HC in the NFL, but he won me over in ’08 and ’09. Last year was a huge letdown and many of the same things that cost him his NFL HC jobs, cost him his Pitt job.
And I am putting some of this on the coaches. As I said, the players may be losing faith. That’s on the coaches for sure. They’re still in control over who’s on the field, at every position not just QB.
Thanks to bossman previous support. Here’s an observation straight from the as bossman rigthful pointed out the parioting press. I wrote PZ about Myers and he implied he was having adjustment problems and academic problems that is why he has has been shelved. I think PZ is drinking more of the Kool Aid. Based on Myers solid academic background I find it hard to believe he is having problems in the classroom. I can believe he is having a hard time adjusting to the fact that Tiny (Anderson)was even brought to Pitt (5’10”, 180lbs. no, check it but not in the Pitt offical site, scholarship offers from any college)and leapt over him. I am certain, and I am not implying Myers has Flaccos ability, but I am sure Flacco had the same feelings as a competitor when the job was given to Playko (SP). This is a far greater insult to an athelete. I can see Tino as the starter for the first six games because of his experience. But to play Tiny (TA) who demonstrated has no arm strength can not see over the line and when he was chased out of bounds in the Rutgers game, as he ran for his life, I saw no evidence of quickness. Certainly at this level he is not going to break anys tackles. The cheerleaders are much better physically conditioned and developed than he is.
Let’s all hope Tino comes out smokin’ tomorrow and we get a big win. I would love nothing more!!
Hail to Pitt, off to some meetings!!!
Most of us keep coming back to Tino because the QB position makes High Octane go. When he flubs it, it seems to affect the entire team, where others can make mistakes and it doesn’t have as much impact.
Once in the doghouse hard to get out quickly. But hearing that easy to see why they needed depth at QB and brought in Anderson but also why he jumped ahead of Myers. And with Gonzo suspended they desperately needed QB bodies. Anyway that explains a lot.
FrankCam, this is what you wrote
“Wbb does not seam to get that with him the wr is running the the wrong route or it is the o lines fult.”
As usual, your posts need much translation but I believe that you are saying … WBB doesn’t seem to understand that with him (QB) the wide receivers are running the wrong routes and the OL is also at fault …
If this is the correct translation … then this is EXACTLY what I have been trying to say the entire week .. and both Coach Graham and Zeise (from his interaction with the coaches) have confirmed this that the loss at Rutgers was the fault of the entire offense and not just the QB.
Kind of got that after reading further up. Your post followed mine, so I wondered. I just wanted to make it clear that I think it’s on the coaches as well as the players.
Everyone on the team underestimated RU and just lately they have gone public with that in interviews. But this fits PITT’s historical M.O. We constantly lose a headscratcher after we either win a big game (last weekend) or drastically fail to meet expectations as we did opening as a ranked team against Bowling Green.
As to how DW would have fared. Others will have differing opinions on this but I firmly believe that we were at the start of a drastic downhill slide in 2010. The mediocre 7-5 regular season aside there were a ton of problems in the football program and they weren’t going to get any better with the current coaching staff. It effected the on field play in a big way and would have gotten worse IMO.
As far as pure football goes Sunseri still would have been the starting QB and his play in 2010 didn’t allow anyone to point to a great year from him this season. He very well may have played exactly the same under Cignetti this season as he did last – progress was not guaranteed from him as we have seen this season, the problems we are seeing from him now are exactly the problems we saw last year.
DRW – The answer you got from Paul Zeise (and I knew that was you!) was the exact same take on Myers that every beat writer and anyone who watched Myers play in practices and scrimmages has been saying all season since April.
But just for your information I can tell you first hand of a conversation I had on the afternoon before the Spring Game with Mark Myer’s father – a great guy BTW – and he clearly stated that they would “have to take a long hard look” at his son’s future at PITT. The main reason for that was, of course, the fact that the incoming coach’s offense didn’t have a place for his son. Those were his observations at the time but that wasn’t earth shaking to hear at all – apparently everyone and his brother knew the same thing, except for you.
I will say this, I believe that Myers and his dad knew he wasn’t going to win the starting position with this offense thus the attitude they had coming out of spring practice. The handwriting was writ large right then.
Now, if you look back at the timeline, Spring Practice ended on April 16th. Gonzalez was arrested on May 20th thereby opening up the QB2 spot for Myers going into the season as AG was suspended for two games. Remember, this is way before Anderson reported onboard. That suspension obviously played an important role in Myers’s decision making to stay and I commend him and his family for looking at it as a chance to help the team out.
Myers goes into summer camp as QB2 (in theory only as Gonzalez was still ahead of him on the depth chart but for the suspension) and truth be told just goes through the motions pretty much during camp. This was reported by different sources and was written about as Myers needing a ‘fire lit under him‘ with, among other things, his being overweight when the staff was constantly cracking down on the players to report to training camp in shape. He didn’t do that and that lessened his chances with the staff.
So then in mid-August the staff gets Anderson to come onboard and by the time the dust settles camp closes on August 27th and Anderson is publicly named QB2. Classes then started on August 29th and thus Myers is locked into the 2011 season at PITT.
So – let’s not think that Myers’s wavering began with Anderson coming onboard, that isn’t true. He knew from the minute Todd Graham was hired that he was going to be the odd man out. He was 100% aware of this from very early on this year.
Also, I do believe you have an inflated opinion of what Myers is as a QB. He is no lock for success by any means. That doesn’t mean he can’t do well if given the chance, especially in a pro-set offense, which he won’t find at PITT, but he’s no Dan Marino or any sure bet. He’s a QB with a strong arm as his main positive attribute and I watched him in a few practices and wasn’t bowled over by what I saw by any means. He throws a pretty pass with strength but his accuracy is questionable and he wasn’t immune to tossing INTs in practice. Sunseri outplayed him in the camps, even from a drop back and pass aspect of play, hard as that might be to believe at this point.
One more note: Kids from excellent academic HS’s have academic problems in college more often then you think. Just recently our football player John Sacco, who graduated from a strong academic school in Don Bosco Prep in NJ recently flunked out of PITT; his classmate Bryan Murphy is currently on academic probation and is suspended for the season. Hell, I had 1400+ on my SATs, tested off the charts and lasted less than a year and a half before I flunked out of college because of my attitude – it can happen to anyone.
Pitt will beat Utah. But I don’t like seeing what I witnessed last Saturday when played walked away from Tino when he was on the ground instead of helping him up. Like him or not, it should be a team effort… HTP!