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October 3, 2011

It seems like forever that the Big 12 has been evaluating its options. Will it expand to 10 teams or 12? Is Mizzou staying or leaving for the SEC? What happens then? If Mizzou stays, then what? Texas wants the Big 12 at 10. Oklahoma prefers 12 teams. Is BYU really going to join? Is TCU on or off the table? If Mizzou leaves, does it make it more or less likely to go to 10 or 12.

What does the SEC do if Missouri doesn’t take their embrace? Stay at 13? Grab an ACC team? Will they be able/willing to take one from a state they already have a presence (Florida or South Carolina)? Settle for WVU?

And if the ACC does lose a team? Well, then UConn is there with bags packed. Rutgers trumpeting their NYC market proximity — while hoping no one looks too closely.

Then it is down to the Big East. Just trying to stay above water for a little bit longer.

Everyone likens it to dominoes falling. I see it as a “Choose your own adventure” story. Each option taking you to a different story and ending.

Since I can’t seem to quit the unhealthy fascination with the subject, time for a rundown.

The other thing to remember, is that expansiopocolypse still has a big impact on Pitt. If we want Pitt in the ACC sooner rather than later, then it is important that the Big East stabilizes quickly (or is completely destroyed).

The Big 12 may not know whether Mizzou is staying or going until the Missouri Board of Curators meet tomorrow, but they are inching closer to making it really hard to leave once things are decided.

The Big 12 Conference Board of Directors today announced adoption of a position to equally distribute all conference related distributable revenue to include Tier I and II football television, men’s basketball television and NCAA men’s basketball tournament revenues. This action becomes effective after each member institution commits a grant of rights to the Conference for its Tier I and II television rights for at least six years.

That still requires the present schools to each vote to give the grant of rights to the TV. What it means is that even if a member ran to another conference, the Big 12 would have the TV rights — to air and collect the money — to the former member. Effectively locking in the members for the 6 year period, and creating some stability.

The ACC hasn’t taken that drastic of a step (yet), but has increased its exit fees to $20 million. Making it very, very costly to leave. As for the Big East, no surprise that their meeting yesterday paid more lip service to staying united and nobody leaving, but remaining weak in the penalties.

“The Presidents are also actively considering changes to the Conference’s governing bylaws to further solidify the membership of the Conference.”

With UConn and Rutgers making no secret (especially UConn) of their desire to be anywhere else. With Louisville, WVU and Cinci all being mentioned as potentially moving to the Big 12. There is no way that the Big East could get the requisite 3/4 vote (11 of 14 voting members — since Pitt and Cuse can no longer vote on these sorts of things) to pass that change. All the Big East can do is talk about it, and try and make it appear that it might happen.

The one thing that did come out of yesterday’s meeting for the Big East is officially authorizing expansion.

A source with knowledge of the meeting told ESPN.com’s Andy Katz that the Big East did not issue any invitations Sunday. The source said a number of schools were discussed, including Navy, Army, Air Force, Temple, Central Florida and a new name in SMU, which would be a natural rival with TCU if the Horned Frogs honor the commitment to join the conference in 2012-13. All of these schools except Army and Navy would join the Big East for all sports.

The timing of Pitt and Syracuse’s departure was also on the agenda, a source said. Pitt and Syracuse would like to get out for the 2012-13 season. But Marinatto has said he wants to hold the schools to the 27-month departure requirement.

ACC commissioner John Swofford said at the time of adding Pitt and Syracuse that he would honor that time frame. The exit fee is $5 million, but that could always be negotiated up, according to sources, to expedite the departure.

Assuming TCU is sticking with joining the Big East, the Big East can’t let Pitt and Syracuse go for the 2012-13 season without expansion. The Big East would be down to only 7 football programs and lose their BCS AQ status. As much as I dislike football only memberships (if Pitt was staying in the Big East), Navy is a vital addition for Pitt and Syracuse to be able to leave early.

Navy is presently a football independent. That means they can join immediately for the 2012 season, keeping the Big East at 8 schools. That, though, presumes all expansiopocolypse comes to a brief halt (until next year or so). The Big 12 can’t expand beyond BYU. Mizzou needs to stay in the Big 12, and the SEC has to wait at least a year before trying to get an alternative for team number 14.

Oliver Luck, the WVU AD is putting the happy face on things by taking potshots at Syracuse.

“So we’ve got some quality schools that are very interested in getting involved, including both Air Force and Navy. It’s no secret there. I think both of those institutions are academically excellent, very important nationally and also, I think we all can agree, they play some pretty good football.

“In fact, I would trade Air Force or Navy for Syracuse every day of the week in terms of the quality of the football program. No disrespect, but that’s just an observation I think most would agree with who understand football.”

Odds that Doug Marrone has that quote up on the Syracuse bulletin board for the week leading up to their Friday night home game with the Hoopies on October 21? 1:1 would be my guess.

Now back to that potential Big East expansion list. ECU remains persona non grata for BCS expansion. As does Memphis. Poor academics play a major role for both. Memphis is also damaged by such hideous football. ECU is killed by its geography.

SMU? I guess the Big East figures if they really want to try and cement a claim to Dallas-Ft. Worth metroplex, they need two schools in the area. Somehow Houston is not even listed. Astounding. At this rate the random Big East rumor machine created by Friarblog is just as accurate.

Finally, I have long maintained that while Providence controllers in the Big East and the basketball schools have been able to exercise way too much control and limits on the Big East football, I also have been aware that the basketball side of things believes the football side is too dominant. This article makes that perception just so clear.

After being bullied for the last 20 years and being told (correctly) that the wishes of their football-playing brothers dwarf their own, it is time for the leaders of the Big East’s Catholic basketball colleges to look out for themselves.

The time is now because the football schools have shown themselves to be louses. Consistently dreadful on the gridiron and not be trusted in the board room, the football schools have crucified themselves. Two weeks ago, Pittsburgh and Syracuse gave up the fight and jumped at their first invitation out when the Atlantic Coast Conference came calling.

The scary thing for the Big East football schools is that the basketball side is actually in control with Pitt and Syracuse out of the picture. It is 7 b-ball schools plus ND versus 6 football schools. The dysfunction will only be accentuated.

The list of demands include:

— Making the football side accept Villanova moving up to football (Temple grudgingly would be the back-up in Nova doesn’t commit).

— Only take Navy and Air Force as football-only members.

— No way to other full members like UCF.

— Expand the basketball-only side now (in preparation of an eventual split) by getting Xavier and Dayton. Hold up any football expansion unless there is equal expansion for basketball.

The idea of the latter is so that when the Big East dissolves, the basketball side can keep the conference name and money (and at least ensure short-term survival).

First off, schools that depart the Big East (like Pitt & Syracuse) leave their share of the NCAA basketball pie behind. Last year, the conference received nearly $25 million, about $6.5 million more than any other conference (the Big Ten was next). Until Pitt and Syracuse move to the ACC, the Big East will remain the deepest basketball conference in the country, so similar-sized checks will follow.

The conference’s valuable name and tournament contract with Madison Square Garden also remain with the surviving members. So the only reason to move on right now is if a better option awaits.

He is right on what the basketball side needs to do to plan ahead, and it is the exact reason the basketball side will stick it out to the end. McNamara, though, completely overstates the value of the basketball side (“The football schools need the basketball sizzle of Georgetown, Marquette, St. John’s and Villanova…”). Uh, no. As bad as teams like USF and Rutgers have been on the basketball side of things, the basketball deadweights include Providence, Seton Hall and DePaul. To say nothing of the only appeal of St. John’s up until last year, was recruiting in NYC. Only Georgetown, Villanova and Marquette have been consistent NCAA Tournament teams.

Last year when the Big East got 11 teams into the NCAA Tournament, seven were from programs with football — Pitt, Cuse, Cinci, UConn, WVU, Louisville and ND. The fact is the basketball schools cannot keep up with even Big East football schools in the money game. Whether to pay for coaches or for facilities. Even the low amount of Big East football money generated is a significant number when compared to the zero dollars (or losses in 1-AA) for the basketball schools.

Best case for Pitt is that the Big East quickly nabs Navy. Once that happens, real negotiations to exit the conference can truly begin.





Great article

Comment by Nick F 10.03.11 @ 3:34 pm

didn’t Syracuse beat WVU last year?

Comment by wbb 10.03.11 @ 3:51 pm

wbb – that was my first thought as well. I guess Luck would rather see Navy and Air Force because he thinks he has a better chance of getting through conference play unscathed.

It’s funny, but a couple weeks ago Luck publicly called Nordenberg a liar, but I don’t believe a word that comes out of Luck’s mouth. An arrogant SOB.

Comment by Pantherman13 10.03.11 @ 4:15 pm

with all the baggage that WVU has, which was pointed out on this site a week ago, I’m not sure any WVU rep should say anything negative about any school

Comment by wbb 10.03.11 @ 4:37 pm

Luck’s son plays QB a helluva lot better than his dad plays cheerleader.

Really, really going to the well.

Embarrasing

Comment by steve 10.03.11 @ 4:55 pm

Thought Luck was a little more classy than to slam the “Cuse”. Perhaps the pressure of not being part of the new “In A GOOD CONFERENCE” crowd is starting to show
Hail to Pitt!!!

Comment by Bruce F 10.03.11 @ 5:00 pm

I know exactly how Missouri fans are feeling, except they have a heads up on what is going on.

Being stuck in a situation that is constantly unstable. With one shot, to the ACC, everything was cool and calm, and a sigh of relief.

With one shot, Missouri would give their fans (95%) anyhow, a collective sigh of relief.

Or, they could give them a, “I can’t believe we’re stuck in this sh*t again”.

Good luck Missouri fans, I hope you find some comfort!!!

Comment by Dan 10.03.11 @ 5:03 pm

Sure, let’s wait until two of our pillar universities jump ship, then we’ll expand. Duh! I would love to see Air Force though, if Pitt were still in the BE, they play some good football.

Comment by Digdug(formerly known as dugdog) 10.03.11 @ 5:12 pm

It must be embarrassing for WVU and its fans to be NOT wanted by the ACC or the SEC. Perhaps the debris tossing, profanity at games, and couch burning isn’t as popular as hoopies may think.

Comment by Rich C 10.03.11 @ 6:07 pm

If big 12 were to say come on WVU and luck said no would he be a fool ?
I think they should go because in time big east is done.

Comment by FRANKCAN 10.03.11 @ 6:07 pm

I think ACC should move on to 16 take ucon and who ever and stop waiting on ND because they arent comeing on bord they only said what they said becuse they thought big east was done if acc took 2 more . and they wanted to stop it . to make sure they had a place for there outher sports what better way to stop the acc why bye saying they might like to go to acc but it is a scam

Comment by FRANKCAN 10.03.11 @ 6:16 pm

I think Mizzou should go to the SEC.

Comment by FRANKCAN 10.03.11 @ 6:17 pm

1) Why did it take 8 hours of meetings yesterday to do nothing?
2) Why is Marinatto still the commissioner?

Comment by TonyinHouston 10.03.11 @ 6:36 pm

After reading this article and being able to feel completely at peace, I cannot begin to the thank the ACC and the Pitt administration from getting us into the ACC and out of the dysfunctional Big East. The Big East imploding or expanding cannot happen fast enough so long as they let us go. Every time we win a basketball or football game in the Big East an ACC chant should breakout from the Pitt faithful.

Comment by John In South Carolina 10.03.11 @ 6:47 pm

tonyinhouston, my exact sentinents!!

Comment by wbb 10.03.11 @ 7:05 pm

FRANKCAN:

I think you have some great comments, however please work on punctuation, spelling, and grammar. It is painful to read your first post.

Comment by omar 10.03.11 @ 7:31 pm

I wish the ACC would just add UCONN and RU already and kill BE football for good. I don’t buy this Catholic schools need the Football league to survive stuff. A new strictly b-ball league with potential new members like Xavier, Dayton, St. Louis,and Duquesne is a strong league with great TV markets. They need to tell Marinatto we want nothing to do these football schools, the experiment failed. But hey, who really cares we’re ACC members now!

Comment by Alex P 10.03.11 @ 8:09 pm

One more thing, I don’t get ESPNU which I’m seeing that Pitt-RU is televised on it at 3:30. Does anybody know if the game will be carried on ABC with the whole Big East Network thing as well?

Comment by Alex P 10.03.11 @ 8:19 pm

FrankCan, I would actually would like to see Missouri stay in the Big 12. I think the Big 12 is a good conference and I would like to see them survive. They have good teams in both football and basketball and I’m not really a mega conference fan.

Comment by Justinian 10.03.11 @ 8:23 pm

FankCan, Shame on you for criticizing Notre Dame’s purely altruistic motives. As we all know from their Athletic Director Jack Swarbrick, Notre Dame always looks out for the best interests of their fellow conference members. Particularily when of benefit to them.

Comment by Justinian 10.03.11 @ 8:38 pm

AlexP, are you sure?? I thought all the ESPN’s came as a package kind of?? No??

Don’t know about the ABC coverage. I would doubt it though, if it’s starting at 330. Seems like all the Big East games of the week always start at noon.

Good luck.

Comment by Dan 10.03.11 @ 9:12 pm

Frank, I wouldn’t mind them staying there, I have always liked Big 12 football and hoops as well.

However, they say it has been one of the most massive write in, phone in and email campaigns ever by fans anywhere, to the administration, to get out of there and get to the SEC.

Similar kind of to Pitt, they will lose some rivalries, but the constant instability has got to be driving them nuts.

I’m sure, if they were told, “the Big 12 will be together for the next 30 years”, a lot of them would want to stay, but we all know how instability causes problems.

Whatever’s best for them, think they’d be a nice fit in the SEC, or if the Big 12 stays together and they stay, that’s ok too.

The fans overwhelmingly want to get the hell out of Dodge though!!

Comment by Dan 10.03.11 @ 9:16 pm

For those critizing ND, regarding the BE – remember the BE benefitted with bowl ties because of their relationship with ND.

In other words, the BE’s shitty bowl tie ins would be worse if not for ND.

Comment by JoeP 10.03.11 @ 9:46 pm

The Big East, as a hybrid of Division I or FBS teams and basketball only schools, was doomed to failure. The basketball only schools are still in their own little world and cannot see anything beyond it. They work at cross purposes and cannot succeed.

I said it before. Not so long ago, there was a conference that spanned the entire East Coast, from Boston to Miami, that had championship football, men’s basketball and women’s basketball – the Big East. The braintrust, such as it is, still found a way to annoy members and drive them away.

The ACC should just add Rutgers and UConn and finish the Big East.

Comment by Penguins Fan 10.03.11 @ 10:01 pm

It’s all Joe Grand Pa’s fault. One question for the group. Will he still get credit for victories if he remains under contract, but coaches from hospice? I mean seriously, the old fart got to go.

He caused this mess anyway!

Comment by dhuffdaddy 10.03.11 @ 10:25 pm

But JoeP, I like criticizing Notre Dame. Particularily when their Athletic Director accuses Pitt and Syracuse of pursuing their selfish best interests. After all, Notre Dame’s basketball program benefitted greatly from being in the Big East. It helped them recruit much better and build up their basketball program and gave them a place for all their non-revenue sports to play with out having to share a dime o football TV money. They could have saved the Big East when it almost fell apart a few years ago or they could do it now. They shouldn’t throw stones at other schools who are, like Notre Dame, are looking after their own best interests.

Comment by Justinian 10.03.11 @ 10:26 pm

Mizzouri would be wise to stay in the B-12 if the revenue is shared equally. I would much rather see them in the SEC.

Is’s great that Pitt is in the ACC but they could get mad at Pitt real soon. What happens when Pitt takes a few thousand fans to a bowl game??? One of the reasons that the BE had lousy bowls was the bowls only wanted WV.

One of the biggest reason holding back Pitt is not the stadium, coaches, or the ADs but alumni that does not support the school in donations and attending games. I am not referring to people on this fourm

Comment by joel 10.03.11 @ 11:21 pm

Joel, good points, but, I would offer this.

Whether it’s because, we’re in a city with pro teams, we’ve lost half the population, bad seasons, moving the stadium off campus, etc. etc. ad nauseum, there has been one truth for the last 30-40 years that I’ve gone to Pitt games, and that is……………

Penn St., ND, and WVU can get some sell outs, some good teams coming in, i.e. Nebraska, TAM, can get close to 50k.

But, the average Pitt crowd, during a good season is anywhere from 38k to 45k. That’s it.

Been that way for years, in Pitt Stadium, Three Rivers or Heinz.

I don’t know why, again, reason after reason, but, the fact remains.

So, a thought has occured to me the past few weeks. After 40 years of trying, the admin, the fans etc. etc. need to get off of the “how do we get 65 or 70k fans to the game”. We’re not going to. We will never have 65k for opening day against Maine.

I’m not saying it’s a bad thing. Some of the reasons are valid. You can argue the point over and over, but the facts remain.

I will also say, the people that show up, and post on here and watch on tv if they can’t get to the games, are as passionate as any fans, just not as many.

So, what to do. First thing, and I’m not a markeeting major, but, I do know it’s supply and demand.

Ideally, a beautiful new stadium in panther hollow or wherever, of about 45k would be perfect. By the way, Duke, Wake and Bc have stadiums of 40k or so, would not be the smallest.

Ok, no room, no money, I get it.

How about covering the the top sections of Heinz, except for the first 10 rows or so of the upper deck, and the top of the big end zone. Only make 40k or so available, and would get away from those awful yellow seats. (except for ND, PSU, WVU)

As for traveling, I don’t have a good answer for that, lately, especially with the little bowls, yes awful. I do know I went with thousands to the Sugar Bowls in 77 and 83 and a Cotton Bowl. Maybe we’re fickle, if the bowl doesn’t matter, people don’t go.

I do believe, if Pitt was relevant, in the top 10, won the ACC championship and went to the Sugar or Orange Bowl, you’d have a good number of fans going. Like WVU or Nebraska, no, we’re not them. But, for whatever reason, if the bowl was big, Pitt was relevant, you’d have some travelers.

I have no answers, but, I’ve thought about this a lot lately, and everyone sitting around thinnking, how do we get Heinz filled for every game, not just PSU and ND, it ain’t gonna happen.

Again, it’s not a bad thing, the 30 to 40k are passionate as anyone, and, I hate this cliche’ more than any cliche’, but, it is what it is.

Also, Pitt football games on tv are one of ESPN higher rated games. Maybe people like to stay home and watch on tv, instead of go????

I know an on campus stadium isn’t going to happen, but, the one excuse of “no room” is pretty thin. There was no room for the Consol Energy Center either. With some of the land, and some of the buildings being so old, if they wanted to make it happen, they could.

Money would be the bigger issue I would think.

Also, remember, Pitt is not a huge school with 50k students either.

I would have to look into donations, you may be right, but, I’d have to see some evidence.

Attendting the games, poor. You are correct.

Comment by Dan 10.03.11 @ 11:59 pm

Yes, even in the 70’s and early 80’s with Dorsett and Marino. PSU, ND, WVU sell outs.

Some half decent teams, 45-52k.

Regular ol’ teams, 35-45k.

Anyone that went to games then, will attest to this on games that were not against rivals and weren’t sell outs.

The average game, both side of the bowl were filled. The south end zone, I believe, would be half full. The north end zone, would be sprinkled with people. Pretty much it.

If the north end zone was were the painted panther head on that building that overlooked the field was. If not, vice-versa.

I know thats why they made the Pete only 12,500, instead of 18 or 20 k. At 12,500, games sold out, hottest ticket in town.

If they would have made it 20k, probably would have sold 15 to 16 and had some empty seats.

Again, I have no answer, but one thing Nordy and Steve should leave off their list, is trying to get 65k to every game. Yes, I’d love it, not gonna happen.

Not a knock on them, still thrilled with both of them getting us to the ACC. They have some credit for quite awhile.

Comment by Dan 10.04.11 @ 12:08 am

For the most part, Pitt’s home attendance mirror’s ACC team attendance. VA Tech and Clemson are the exceptions but most other ACC teams are lucky to get 40K into their home seats. I attend GA Tech home games and the only sellouts are when Tech plays GA or Tech plays an SEC team like Auburn. It’s been rumored that GA fans buy season Tech tickets to get the Tech away game and pitch or sell the remaining Tech home games. Tech is lucky to get 40k seats filled for home games and that’s when they offer 4 tickets, 4 hot dogs, 4 cokes and a program for $88. This “special” upsets season ticket holders like me because I pay $300 to purchase my two season tickets and most games cost $50/game. I’m looking forward to the Pitt vs. Tech games. Of course, I’m Pitt all the way! Hail to Pitt!

Comment by MariettaMike 10.04.11 @ 7:17 am

Ray Graham has to go against his half brother this week. Rutgers leading tackler,Khaseem Greene.

Comment by alcofan 10.04.11 @ 7:46 am

I’m not sure Pitt will ever sell out Heinz even when in the ACC. It will probably improve but we’ll have to get used to seeing thos dreadful yellow seats as the TV caemras pan the stadium.

We’ve been over this before and it is mostly due to playing in a pro market where the NFL team is revered. BC has little exposure but does have more alums and a much larger population base to sell out it’s 44k stadium .. but still doesn’t.
Miami rarely sells out Joe Robbie (or whatever the new annual name is) and that held true when they were the king of college FB in the 80s and 90s … same as Pitt in late 70s/early 80s when the only sellouts at 54k Pitt Stadium were WVU, PSU and ND.

As I had previously mentioned on this blog … I know WAY too many Pitt alums who would not think of showing up at Heinz on Saturday but will pay an exorbitant fee for Sunday

Comment by wbb 10.04.11 @ 7:46 am

as noted above GA Tech also has issues in a pro market

Comment by wbb 10.04.11 @ 7:50 am

Dan
Good points about the crowds. Pitt never did draw big crowds consistently. They should at least cover the high seats in the enclosed end zone. Worst seats in the stadium.
If seats are covered they should not be uncovered and sold for big games. Even when the game is a sell out there are many no shows. The tickets would then be in more demand and people that actually have a desire to go would buy and actually show up.

Comment by notrocketscience 10.04.11 @ 8:19 am

IF they have a chance should WVU go to big 12 or stay in big east?

Comment by FRANKCAN 10.04.11 @ 9:32 am

Hey, good morning fellas. Thanks rocket, ya, just some of my thoughts.

And strangely, in no way am I criticizing Pitt or the fans. We have as passionate fans as anywhere, that go to the games, watch on tv, and certainly, if you follow this board, it’s obvious, those that love Pitt, really love Pitt!!

Just the way it is, pro town, aging population, loss of population etc. etc., just trying to think of what could be done, with what we have.

Hey, wbb, great points. Guess because of the yellow seats it makes it more apparent, and I’ve taken special notice watching college games.

We’re not alone, you are right. Kansas, Indiana both had vast sections of upper decks not filled and they weren’t huge stadiums this past weekend ro two.

USC and UCLA are never filled. I know they both play in massive stadiums, but, it’s not even close.

Does it make us feel any better, no, but, I think we all need to realize, as big as college football has gotten…….many of these games across the country are not sold out.

A lot in the SEC, Ohio St, Mich, Neb, Wis, Texas, and yes as evil as they are PSU. I don’t have the stats, but, I bet I could randomly pick teams out of the air, and I bet they aren’t sold out.

Actually, I will, if someone is bored, they could check my guesses. I bet Minnesota, Iowa St. Virginia, NC St. California, Colorado, Texas Tech, Kansas St. etc. etc. are not sold out????? And that’s just to name a few.

I know a lot of fans who love to go to the games……….I also know a lot of fans, passionate fans, extremely passionate college football fans, who love nothing more than getting up Saturday morning, having a coffee and putting Gameday on ESPN, and waiting to watch about 20 college football games all day long on tv!!!!

Great points Marietta also.

Anyhow, I really don’t think we’re that different than a lot of programs.

Now, what to do, you should always have an answer if you’re trying to make a point, right??? I don’t!!!!!!!!!

I know there are a hundred reasons why we can’t build on campus, room, money, etc. etc.

I would mention this, as Pitt moves forward in the future, and for those that give the subject any thought………

We’re not talking about a 70,000-100,000 coliseum type stadium, what about a 40k-45k stadium.

Believe me, I’ve seen some of these, they don’t look like rinky dink high school stadiums, they look like regular college football stadiums and can be very nice.

If not, then the tarp thing possibly????????

As much as I’ve defended us, I’m not a fool, it does look hideous with the yellow seats sticking out empty.

If I hit the lottery, I’m gonna buy Pitt and the fans, dark blue seat covers, everyone can take a few to the games, and where you see a yellow seat empty, we can cover them up!!!! LOL

All, have a great day!!!

Comment by Dan 10.04.11 @ 9:38 am

I’ve been waiting for years to go to a Pitt bowl game. Wrap a few rounds of golf around the game and the party. But really, the Beef O’Brady Bowl? The Belk Bowl? How about a game in New York in January? No thanks to all. Can’t wait to get to the ACC and a better bowl opportunity. This is one Pitt fan who WILL travel to the right place.

Comment by longsufferingpittfan 10.04.11 @ 10:03 am

As a youngster 12-14 YO, I read the Press [before the PG & Sun-Telegraph merged] and the 1st three pages on sunday were all Pitt. You couldn’t find a Steeler story with a search warrent. My father took me and my brother to Steeler games and you could sit anywere.

In the early 70s the two teams went in oppsite directions. Fans will come to see Pitt especially when Larry Fitzgerald was here. A couple of clones of Larry and more wins will drag the non alums to the games. The local fans are still football fans and a lot are shut out from going to Steeler games because of sellouts. They watch at home or go to sports bars. There is still a large pool of fans that need a reason to attend.

Comment by joel 10.04.11 @ 10:05 am

If you ever had to watch a game from the corners or the top of the upper deckof Heinz Field, you would strongly consider staying home and watching the game on TV. I realize that Pitt Stadium didn’t have a lot of the amenities, but it had terrific sight lines and you were closer to the action. I’m sure winning will help cure a lot of the attendence issues. Particularily if the Panthers are able execute Tod Graham’s high octane offense, at the level we want to see. Will we sell-out every game? Probably not, but if Pitt builds a strong enough program, they will grow the fan base.

Comment by Justinian 10.04.11 @ 10:08 am

I loved Pitt Stadium, however, it was a rat hole…do you remember trying to make a pit stop
in one of the latrines that made going for a wiz in basic training at Ft. Jackson a fond memory.
Parking? Concessions? Pitt Stadium was outdated in 1959!!!
Heinz is fantastic for a college with 30,000 undergraduates with a high level program that can go to better Bowls than The Muffler Bowl and The Beef and Gravy Bowl.

A question? Why has The Big 10,11,12 passed on Mizzou? Major midwestern university, solid academics, St. Louis and KC markets (yes, I know part of KC is in Kansas). I think the Big 10,11,12 has its head up its ass!

Comment by isnore 10.04.11 @ 10:13 am

Anybody else worried about this RU game ? Asides from the obvious trap game cliche… the Defense rutgers plays puts more decision making on QB and the Offensive Line.

USF rushes with four and doesn’t bring that much pressure… so its much more vanilla….Plus I think most agree, USF was highly overrated with a “Lucky” win over ND. (still a win though) and then a few nobodies. Granted they ended last year with some good wins.

Can Tino really make quick decisions along with young backups at O-Line ?

Comment by Snala The Panther 10.04.11 @ 10:23 am

Isnore, ha ha ha, going to the bathroom at Pitt Stadium!! Squeezing by people in the ring around the stadium. Then they had souveigner stands every so often, that would make the squeeze even tighter!!! LOL

I think the Big 10 is waiting on ND, they miss the boat by not taking Mizzou, and if it ever does get to the 16 team super conference thing, they may have to take lesser schools than Mizzou.

USF was over-rated, but, regardless, the offense seemed to grasp the system finally. I would say USF is much better than Maine or Buffalo, and they didn’t grasp it then, but played much better against a much better team compared to those two, so, hopefully, something is clicking.

Hopefully not the fateful trap. For some reason, you can yell and coach at players all you want, and tell them how important this game is, but, seems like all teams, college or pro, come out flat sometimes. Hopefully the kids are pumped up to see, what could be, and want to come out and throw it around again.

Comment by Dan 10.04.11 @ 11:14 am

@isnore

And that was the “rennovated” Pitt stadium. Until the 70s, the bleachers were decrepit wood which left splinters in your ass. They upgraded to metal bleachers (can’t imagine with today’s obesity epidemic how that would play out). If I complained to my Dad about the bleachers he’d tell me how good I had it over the wood ones. . . or better yet — that I got to watch Pitt football and not the Steelers in the 60s playing in that same rat hole. On the rare occasions where security would confiscate liquor from rowdy fans (Pitt and visitors), they’d just pour it right down the steps. The latrines were hilarious — 12′ troughs, yet dudes would still piss in the sinks.

I was all of 6 years old taking that in — who knew it would never get any better.

Comment by Ghost of Hornman 10.04.11 @ 11:27 am

I may have two extra tickets for the Rutgers game.
14th row -47 yard line; On the Rutgers side.

I will be attending with my wife (We are grandparents)

My son’s tickets he ripped Achilles. I think the cost is about %50.00 per ticket.

Comment by Old Pitt Grad 10.04.11 @ 12:32 pm

you talk about obesity epidemic and fiitting in a seat, did you ever wonder how they fit 100,000 plus in many of these colleg stadiums (or stadia if you wish?)

I attended a game at the Horsehoe when it was still a horsehoe to see OSU play Iowa in the mid 80s. I was unfortunate to have a seat at the end of a row and my asscheek was extended over the end of the bench seat the entire game … and I assure you that it wasn’t because I was obese (well at least not back then.)

Comment by wbb 10.04.11 @ 12:34 pm

no no — don’t get me wrong — I’m talking about the collectively larger asses of the occupants and not calling out any one fan. They used to just have long benches with numbers painted. The numbers meant next to nothing if the entire row shifted and covered your rightful space.

At least Heinz is one ass per seat, the way God intended.

Comment by Ghost of Hornman 10.04.11 @ 3:07 pm

Rutgars, Dodd and Nova split qb duties during practice.Ranked 117 out of 120 nationally running the ball.

Comment by alcofan 10.04.11 @ 3:36 pm

I watched the SU/Rutgers game and I was impressed with Gary Nova. He has a very strong arm – seemed effortless to throw the deep ball. He also had a little moxie that reminded me of Big Ben. Tries to extend plays and always has his eyes down the field. To me, Nova is already an upgrade at QB, he just needs some playing time. So I’m hoping they leave Dodd as the starter.

Their D really shut down the Orange O, had it not been for a fumble recovered for a TD RU wins in regulation.

Overall, the game was a snorefest. We were commenting that the fans that had tuned in to see the OSU/MSU game must be going nuts knowing they are stuck with this game while missing a good Big 10 match-up. I was not impressed with either team. I know a lot can change in one week in college football but if Pitt can play well enough on O to score a few TD’s, and don’t give up any free points via turnovers, we should win.

GO PITT!

Comment by ME 2001 10.04.11 @ 4:36 pm

Unbelievable! The Pitt fans on this site and on the Pantherlair are so out of touch with reality. Oliver Luck was right! We can’t even support our own football team so they tore down the stadium on campus! Now we play in a pro stadium and the atmosphere stinks and we still don’t sell it out. The program continues to wallow in mediocrity and now everyone is smoking the perfume and saying how great moving to the ACC will be when the reality is we just get worse in football and will have even a much tougher time trying to get to a BCS game. Beef-O-Brady or Belk Bowls will always be what Pitt fans can expect! Face the reality people! 6-6 this year – you heard it here first!

Comment by Felix Mostnerson 10.04.11 @ 4:53 pm

The Missouri Board of Curaters?

What are they running over there in Columbia, a museum?

Comment by EMel 10.04.11 @ 5:03 pm

“In fact, I would trade Air Force or Navy for Syracuse every day of the week in terms of the quality of the football program. No disrespect, but that’s just an observation I think most would agree with who understand football.”

Hillbilly AD, Oliver Luck has the dreaded ‘Foot in Mouth’ disease.
Syracuse beat the Hillbillies last year in Morganhole. So what does that make WVU’s football team.

Comment by EMel 10.04.11 @ 5:36 pm

@Felix the Troll,

No one that truly calls himself a Pitt fan or a Pitt alum, would EVER say ANYONE from W VA. Community College was right.

Comment by EMel 10.04.11 @ 5:44 pm

The reason why one drank so much at PITT Stadium was to not realize one had been in the piss room.

You had to be really wasted as to not smell the stench in there. But all the old college stadiums were just like it, bench sitting(which still most have), urine troughs and no frills.
It certainly wasn’t for the shemales of today.

But then again that’s what made it a unique experience and PITT stadium would rock and there’s something about a totally open air single bowl stadium ala the Rose Bowl.

It was cool driving or walking around the stadium towards the VA hospital, you could actually look down into the stadium and I loved the Big Panther on the House who looked down onto the field.

Bring back the Mustard Yellow and Royal Blue and the Pitt script ! Just saw a replay of the 1984 Fiesta Bowl and we looked so great in those uni’s.

Comment by EMel 10.04.11 @ 5:55 pm

Dude — I was AT the 1984 Fiesta Bowl! (Pre Tostitos mind you) F@#!ing Mike Tomzack — we should have won that game. Wish I could just remember the awesome unis and not the freaking winning hail mary pass.

Comment by Ghost of Hornman 10.04.11 @ 6:00 pm

The Belk Bowl?
Can’t wait to get to the ACC and a better bowl opportunity.
This is one Pitt fan who WILL travel to the right place.
Comment by longsufferingpittfan 10.04.11 @ 10:03 am

Watch it, that’s the local bowl game. It’s one of the better newer bowl games. Bank of America stadium is state of the Art and you can walk right over to downtown Charlotte and there are plenty of hotels as well. Previously known as the Meineke Car Care Bowl & Continental Tire Bowl.
And btw it’s also an ACC Bowl, so you better start liking it bro. The ACC’s best bowl after the BCS is the Chick-Fil-A Peach Bowl in Atlanta.

Comment by EMel 10.04.11 @ 6:05 pm

@Ghost

Enjoy and relive the 1984 Fiesta Bowl. Just be sure to quit watching with about 5 minutes to go.

link to ourhonordefend.com

Comment by EMel 10.04.11 @ 6:08 pm

Isnore, You’re right about the Pitt Stadium rest-rooms, they were awful. About the seats, I was ok with the bench seats, but I brought the clip on stadium seats with the backs, because my wife hated the bench seats. Those things however were fixable. I’m sure none of us whould have complained if the university put in some decent restrooms or seats with backs, like the Rose Bowl did in their renovation. Despite everything, the lack of parking, the crummy restrooms, the bench seats………… I still loved the place. It was a great place to watch a game.

Comment by Justinian 10.04.11 @ 6:26 pm

VA Tech and Clemson are the exceptions but most other ACC teams are lucky to get 40K into their home seats.
Comment by MariettaMike 10.04.11 @ 7:17 am

Have to contradict that MIke, FSU is ALWAYS sold out (82,000), as is UNC(63,000) and NC State(58,000) is usually sold out as well (98% to capacity) Clemson is 80,000 as well. Va Tech is up to 66,000. You did mention those two. UVA usually sells out at 61,500 when they play Va Tech, UNC or Maryland or FSU or Miami. Duke & Wake Forest have small stadiums, however they have very small undergrad enrollments, I believe Wake is only around 4,000 undergrads but they play to almost 100% capacity at their stadium. And Duke hasn’t been relevant in football for decades and they only have around 6,000 undergrads. So that makes sense for those two.

Four (4) ACC teams were in the Top 30 of ALL FCS schools in 2010. For comparison sake, there were Zero from the BigEast in the Top 30.

BTW the AVERAGE NCAA FBS Football Attendance in 2010 was: (drum roll)

45,912

According to official NCAA statistics for 2010
PITT averaged……

52,165.

That makes us ABOVE AVERAGE ! See how this works.
Aren’t statistics great !

Comment by EMel 10.04.11 @ 7:10 pm

The ACC should just add Rutgers and UConn and finish the Big East.
Comment by Penguins Fan 10.03.11 @ 10:01 pm

There’s no reason to add Rutgers unless there is an ACC network. As Rutgers is only a valuable addition if there are so many cents per cable subscriber for a yet unrealized ACC network.

One question to ask, if they were such a high value commodity for cable subscribers, I believe the B1G would have added them already. AND THEY ALREADY HAVE THEIR OWN CABLE NETWORK. (big 10 network)

Comment by EMel 10.04.11 @ 7:17 pm

Would NAVY & AF really want to be in a conference with the Hillbillies, where the corps of midshipmen might be attacked after games? lol

They might take a few of those young men in white into the woods and do a Deliverance on them.
The middies would never go to Morganhole.

Comment by EMel 10.04.11 @ 7:24 pm

Watching the Fiesta Bowl – you could tell by the uni-s that it’s Ohio St. and Pitt – when you watch Pitt today – is it ND, Navy, Akron, or any other team with gold helmets…let’s go back to old schol.

Comment by markp 10.04.11 @ 7:51 pm

So Missouri has voted to give chancellor Deaton permission to explore options and he immediately resigns from the Big 12’s expansion committee. With Missouri’s predicted departure the Longhorn league is down to eight. West Virginia, Louisville, and TCU look like prime candidates, at least according to burntorangenation.com. UConn, Rutgers, South Florida, and Cincinnati are left in the Big East. What would Marinatto do then? Why is he still the commissioner?

Comment by TonyinHouston 10.04.11 @ 9:26 pm

mustard and yellow throwback equals a maine sellout….

marino bobblehead and ditka leather headgear giveaways equals a buffalo sellout…

let the marketers market…

Better focus this week in practice boys…

Comment by dhuffdaddy 10.04.11 @ 9:33 pm

I remember getting trapped in the crowd along the upper rim of Pitt Stadium during the last quarter of the 1977 Pitt-Penn State game. Amenities? No. But other bowl stadiums built in the late 20s – the Rose Bowl, Michigan Stadium, are not considered dumps. Was a feasible plan ever presented to do an amenities remodel? Pederson was in such a hurry to destroy it he never entertained debate. I’m glad many of you like Heinz Field. The whole thrill of a home Pitt game – parking on one of Oakland’s crowded streets, making the walk up the hill, feeling the excitement passing the hospitals and all the hucksters – that was a Pitt experience shared by generations of fans.

Comment by TonyinHouston 10.04.11 @ 9:40 pm

You can look the 2 schools in pro sports markets who made the move in the middle of last decade as an indicator for Pitt. After an initial surge (shinny new thing) in home attendance in men’s basketball and football Boston College and Miami’s home attendance numbers are worst than before the move. Some of this is due to the economy also look in Miami case that it is a poor sports town period and look at all the pro sports the have in Boston.

Comment by 2011 AFC Champs 10.05.11 @ 11:06 am

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