You remember last year — or any other year for that matter where the Big East seemed like it was at risk of being raided? Or people wanted to explore the idea of expanding the football? There would be highly ridiculous scenarios devoid of any sense of reality. BC, Penn State and Maryland all leaving their stable, wealthy conferences for the Big East was always a favorite to see.
In some sense I think these fantasy scenarios were laid out for a couple of reasons. The first being that natural delusion that comes from being a fan. My school is great. Others — even if they’re rivals — want to be associated with my school. Ergo, they want to be in my conference, and thus they would be happy to come to the Big East.
There is also the attitude that, if this is going to happen, the conference needs to go big. This seems to stem from the sense of denial that the realistic choices suck. That the real choices are C-USA leftovers from the first Big East raid.
Another is the reverse logic approach. You start at the conclusion you want, and work backwards to create the framework. It requires creating assumptions and claims that may not be true (often times using theories or claims that a program is secretly unhappy with their lot within the other conference).
And finally, just the throw s**t up against a wall because all the realistic scenarios have been covered and this is all that’s left.
Well, kind of weird to watch this happen with the Big XII, huh?
That’s where the Big XII stands at the moment. Moving to fantasy land expansion, because the reality sucks.
Everyone knows that their best hope is BYU, but considering that BYU just went independent and seems determined to test this route for at least a few years, that is not too realistic. Then it is followed by the more pedestrian Houston. SMU is publicly begging, because they know that their best shot is by making it a public case in Texas that might get the legislature involved in pushing the Texas schools. After that it is the conference trying to talk themselves into MWC leftovers: Boise State, Air Force, Colorado State, New Mexico and/or UNLV. I’m surprised that UCF hasn’t made their interest known yet.
So, yeah, the Big XII is having their fantasy land moment. Last night’s stuff made that clear. The idea of Notre Dame — the great white whale of conferences everywhere — joining the Big XII is laughable. The idea of bringing Arkansas back to the their SWC roots is like the Big East and Boston College thing. Vestiges of a past history with geographic ties that will not happen.
Throw in what appears to be some stereotypical Texas-style bravado.
Echoing remarks made this earlier month by Tech President Guy Bailey, [Texas Tech Chancellor Kent] Hance said the league is going to aggressively pursue one to three schools for expansion.
“The presidents are all working on that,” Hance said. “Everyone in athletics, all the remaining schools are working on that. They feel like there’s a chance that whoever we get will be just as big, if not a bigger story than the Aggies’ leaving. That’s where we are.”
Apparently Texas Big XII Commissioner Dan Beebe still hasn’t issued a gag order for the conference. Hance does seem to like to babble.
Hance confirmed he heard Pittsburgh mentioned as an expansion possibility last week.
He said he’s not opposed to adding schools from the Midwest and East, because they could restore some of the geography the Big 12 lost with the departures in the past year of Nebraska and Colorado. In shrinking to 10 schools, the Big 12 eliminated the North and South divisions used since its inception in 1996.
“If you added Pitt, Louisville, Notre Dame, it would be easy to have a northern division,” Hance said. “Those would be three great ones. You look at what they bring in football and basketball and the Olympic sports, it’d be big.”
He said he doesn’t know the odds of landing those three schools.
“I think everything’s in such a state of flux,” he said, “the only certain thing right now is uncertainty. There’s so much going on.”
And much like when the Big East looked on the verge of being devoured in the superconference scenarios of last summer, there are the cries for the raidee to become the raider:
So far, the Big 12 has been raided three times, losing Colorado, Nebraska and soon Texas A&M and hasn’t raided any other conference.
Time to assess the national landscape, identify a vulnerable football conference and raid away. Before any Big 12 institutions seriously consider how they might fit into the Big East, first look at how a few Big East schools might look in the Big 12. Figure out a way to bring Pittsburgh, Rutgers and West Virginia to the Big 12 before the Big Ten decides to expand again and does the same, or adds Syracuse instead of West Virginia.
Why not explore adding Pitt, Rutgers and West Virginia before taking the less aggressive step of simply adding Houston and moving ahead with a 10-team conference?
One, I think the Big 12 members already started considering the Big East option after last year. Two, the really funny thing in this article is that this is considered the back-up plan.
Look, I know that the Big East is taking in TCU and that the closest Big East program to USF is Louisville — at over 800 miles away. So maybe anyone from the Big East is silly for bringing up the sprawl of Pitt to the Big XII, but it is worth noting that Pitt is 700 miles and 3 states away from the nearest Big XII school.
I will say that the idea of trying to bring more than just Pitt to the Big East — specifically WVU — makes at least a sliver of logic. No way would Pitt leave the Big East alone for a geographically isolated position in a conference.
…a source with first-hand knowledge of the Big 12’s future plans said, “All of that has been discussed as options. But having 10 teams instead of 12 remains the preferable option.
“And it would be tougher to get Pitt than BYU.”
At least they figured that on their own.
It’s all a matter of playing to strengths. It is in Pitt’s interest to not deny — even if there is no legitimate interest.
Refusing to deny is a good way to keep pressure on the Big East. With media deal. With conference expansion. With basketball schools.
It is also a good way to make ACC pay attention about how proactive it needs to be if it has to plan for eventual expansion if the SEC hits them for team #14.
You don’t waste an ace.
Somebody posted a Dallas-FtWorth newspaper article on this blog from yesterday. It said Pitt has people in it’s administration and football team with ties to the Big 12 and Texas. Well we know TG and some of his staff (specifically Todd Dodge) are all native Texans and have coached their recently (Dodge as recent as last year at North Texas). And TG at Rice in 2006 and former high school coach in Texas.
But who exactly are the Pitt people in the Administration with ties to the Big 12??
Smiley had ties to Nebraska who left the Big 12, so who who who are they referring to?
The likes of Kansas State, are you serious, K-State hasn’t been very good since the first time Bill Snyder retired. His replacement was a total flop, was fired and now ‘The Professor’ is trying to resurrect his magic at K-State for a 2nd time. Sort of like Johnny Majors II at Pitt. For their sake they better hope Snyder has more success than Johnny did, the second time around.
I would think that even if Pitt & WVU separate, the two could play each other non-con. Since Pitt is so hated in HoopieLand, they’d have a hard time trying to redirect that hatred towards anyone else. (Haha they’ll never forget 13-9)
I’d rather see Pitt in a more rock solid conf. The SEC. And we could do some real honest to goodness tailgating, at some of the best spots around. The Grove for one.
Don’t get me wrong, I hop Pitt & WVU team together wherever they end up. I hope the administrations want this as well. But $ will speak louder than words.
I realy wonder if the meetings of the Big 12, BE & ACC commissioners a couple weeks ago were more than a don’t raid us handshake. Someone else had posted the possibility of an ACC-BE-B12 merger into 2 16-team football conferences. That may now hold the greatest potential and long-term stability.
Within the next 5-10 years we may be looking at a 16 team PAC 10, Big 10 & SEC. The only question mark is who the other 16 team conference may be.
93.7 The Fan, which is our flagship radio station now is reporting on the Pitt & the Big 12.
The four mentioned above would certainly be their first target. It’s kind of slim pickings out west after that, they’d be down to Boise State, Hawaii, Fresno State and maybe Nevada. I kind of find it hard to believe that the PAC 12 would be content with those additions. But again it’s slim pickings out there after Texas’s gang.
Yes you certainly did. And I’ve been on that site you mentioned:
several times. Thanks for the info.
I would do anything to play football in a real football conference OR EVEN JUST AGAINST REAL OPPONENTS.
This probably has a lot to do with the fact I attended PITT from 1976-1981 when we were #1, National Champs once and finished ranked #2 twice.
I don’t get real excited beating USF, Uconn, Rutgers, Cincy, L’Ville, or even Cuse. However losing to them is a real embarrassment, we are sort of in a no-win situation there, if you beat these teams, big deal and if you lose to them, it’s embarrassing. Other than Cuse, I don’t think PITT would ever schedule these teams on their schedule, do you?
Peak writes PantherLair I believe for Rivals/Yahoo.
You can listen to it online, like me.
just google 93.7 The fan
Go to the website, click on “Listen Live” at the top.
I’m over 450 miles from Pittsburgh.
Zeise seems to think the ACC is more attractive than the Big 12. With Miami, UNC & GT under NCAA investigation and the SEC likely to pluck off the teams in the ACC they want. Pitt playing Wake Forest, Duke, NC State, UVA, BC and whoever else is left really isn’t that much better than the current BigEast lineup. As for Notre Dame, they will most certainly have to join a conference, and they are certainly not going to join the ACC.
They might consider the Big 12 as they and Texas would form a pretty formidable twosome as far as negotiating TV contracts. I’d rather been in that conf. than the ACC, not close.
Pitt has played just as many ranked teams most years since joining the Big East between the non-conference schedule and the ranked Big East teams. They just haven’t done what those late 70s, early 80s teams did in the Wins column.
Plus, the Big East is to basketball what the SEC is to football. I’d hate to lose that as a fan of both sports. So, I prefer to see Pitt fight for a stronger BE football contingent rather than jump to grass that may not actually be greener.
Let me ask a question when these Mega Conferences come calling they’re going to come calling to the best conference that won’t be one of the four remaining. Who would that be?
And since college football is all about perception, as the Nebraska addition to the Big 10 proved(since it wasn’t about academics,AAU membership or basketball), you need to be in a conference that’s perceived to be better. The Big 12 is head & shoulders above the BigEast in football perception. So say, the Big 12 eventually does get folded into the four 16 team Mega Conference.
The Big 10 or the SEC or even the ACC would want to add teams from the perceived better conference, that would be the Big 12. No one is going to want add whoever is left in the BigEast at that point and some of those in the BigEast are going to be left standing with no seat at the table. Because it’s all about perception and the perception is the BigEast is a joke for football.
PITT can change it’s perception by getting out of the BigEast!
I know we weren’t playing USF & Uconn back then (my days, the glory years) because they didn’t even play any college football back then. And I think we did play and crush Louisville one year when Marino was QB. We never stooped to play Cincinnati back then. Pitt played Florida State numerous times in that era, as well as Oklahoma, USC, Florida, South Carolina, Penn State, WVU and WE NEVER played D1-AA schools or teams like Buffalo or Kent State or Youngstown State.
Agree that we didn’t play the little guys, but the conferences have made that almost a necessity. Even the SEC schools have those kinds of teams on their schedules. My point is if you dominate your conference and beat a quality non-conference opponent or two, you can still be in the national spotlight year after year. It’s worked for TCU and Boise St. and their competition is far weaker than in the Big East.
Plus, if you’re right about the move to mega-conferences, it will be TV markets and fan bases that the new power conferences want. That has little to do with what conference a school is in currently.
If it’s true that the SEC wants Texas A&M, it’s because it’s a damn big school (#7 in enrollment) smack in the middle of the triangle of Dallas, San Antonio and Houston. And, TV and fan base is why everyone salivates over Notre Dame.
We did play Syracuse every year, as they were annual games like Penn State & WVU. Temple was better back then, they weren’t a MAC team. We never played MAC teams back then. And Navy was also usually on the schedule, sometimes Army.
Back then you played those teams because we all competed for the ‘Lambert Trophy’, which symbolized the best team in the East.
I would like to poke my finger in Poopy Pants Joe’s eye before he retires. At this point going into the Big 12 seems to be the best opportunity to do that. Plus Pitt would be a more attractive conference addition (when/IF we do get down to 4 Mega-conferences) as a member of the Big 12 than that of the BigEast. Just like Nebraska was.
If the big 4 Mega Conferences never happens then you’re are still in a better position than being in a league with USF, maybe UCF (whoops I know you’re in Tampa), and other C-USA teams and the like.
AGAIN I’M NOT IN FAVOR OF GOING INTO THE BIG 12 UNLESS NOTRE DAME IS GOING AS WELL.
Don’t sell USF short. They’ll benefit from Miami’s issues in terms of recruiting. And, with “the son of Lou” as their coach, they have the national media holding them up as a program on the rise which will also help with recruiting.
I’d only want UCF so there would be another Pitt team visit or two within driving range each year. Selfish, I know. But as I noted in the previous thread, there are a lot of Pitt alums and fans down here.
I’m not looking at this as to what would be the easiest road games I could attend. The ACC is only slightly better than BigEast football and not perceived as much better nationally as well.
In the BCS Bowl pecking order, usually the ACC team is only slightly wanted more than the non-wanted BigEast BCS representative.
Apparently the Texas AD & the Notre Dame AD are quite friendly and the Texas AD actually might have talked the ND AD out of joining the Big 10.
ND is only interested in playing a couple Big 10 schools annually(Mich, MSU & Purdue). They have no interest in playing Indiana, Illinois, Wisconsin, Minnesota, NW, Iowa or even Ohio State. Or they would have played them already.
Goodnight and Hail to PITT !!
My humble opinions…
Big XII, no way!!!!!! If some reason Notre Dame and WVU would go in fantasyland, then maybe. You would need Notre Dame for stability. Without them, your going worse!! No interest for me with Ok St., Baylor, Texas Tech geography wise.
Without ND, lack of stability could make us worse off in a few years, when the Big XII crumbles again.
Notre Dame, I feel, only has two things that will happen to them, stay independent or go to the Big 10. Administration, alumni and fan base does not feel like being locked into games against Baylor, Iowa St., Duke, or Wake Forest for life.
If anything, locked into Big 10 opponents, they allready play three of them every year.
I know the a.d. and Texas a.d. are buddies, this is hugely bigger than that friendship.
Even if 4 super conferences if ever comes to fruition, ND could still stay independent, have their own tv network, and still be invited into some sort of BCS or playoff if the team is in the top 10. Hey, I don’t like it either, the way it is though.
Pitt’s best hope, would be the chaos of 4 super conferences down the road, especially if Mizzou goes to SEC, giving the Big Ten one more slot if trying to get to 16.
I personally like the ACC, especially if ever got to 16, with Pitt, WVU, UCONN and Syracuse going. I know they have some probation issues, those will be forgotten in a couple years as they always do, and even from the talk this weekend, Miami will not be facing the death penalty. People put that out there for initial reaction, didn’t tread water. Heavy sanctions and probation, but, doubt death penalty.
Big East surviving, I do like the idea of both Kansas’ and Missouri, if Va.Tech or someone else take 14th spot in SEC.
What I think will happen, probably TAM and VA TECH to SEC, will force ACC to grab one, one of Pitt, WVU, Syracuse or UCONN, and it will be done.
The Big East will then need 4 teams instead of 3 to get to 12. Slim pickens still, back to the old routine, UCF, Houston, E. Car, Memphis etc. etc.
One thing for the Big East, the suppossed big contract coming next year, could they steal someone from ACC, doubt it. Unless, it is something like 5,6,7 more million per team. Don’t see Maryland, BC, Virginia leaving if it is only a couple million a year per team.
It would have to be a significant amount of money for those teams to leave a conference they have been with for 50 years, I mean game changing money.
Time to tee it up!! Hail to Pitt!!
If the ACC loses a team to the SEC, and only needs one team, Syracuse will be on top of their list, not Pitt. Which might be better for Pitt anyway, that’s one less on the Big 10 list.
What if Pitt made a sudden leap with WVU to the Big 12 (unlikely but not impossible)? And then Okla & Okla St go SEC, Texas goes PAC 10 or independent and we have no league…
We are all impatient and sometimes just want somebody to do something… But there is a fine line between acting swiftly and rushing in recklessly. Just hope things work out for the best.
