It has been 7 days since it was announced that Pitt and Penn State will renew their rivalry for 2 years in 2016 and 2017. We’ve had 7 days to ponder the arrogance of Penn State AD Tim Curley’s comments on 93.7 The Fan and 7 days to discuss the reasons the series won’t last longer than 2 seasons. We’ve heard Pitt needs Penn State to fill Heinz Field, Penn State needs a true rival, Penn State can’t do home-home series because it is in a tight “financial” situation (which doesn’t happen if you promote something other than Women’s Volleyball as your #2 sport), Pitt isn’t a worthy opponent for Penn State, JoePa refuses to play Pitt, along with many others tall tales. Fellow babysitters, The Incline Blog Staff, even their take on this the other day right here at Pitt Blather.
But that is not why we are here today. Today, we’ll look beyond these issues and examine the finer details surrounding the rivalry since it last took place on September 16, 2000.
The rivalry began on November 6, 1893. There have been 96 meetings between the 2 teams. Penn State has won 50, Pitt 42, and the remaining 4 games ended in a tie. When Joe Paterno was born in December of 1926, the teams had only met 29 times.
For Penn State, Pitt is still their most played opponent. When the series ended in 2000, Pitt could say the same thing. However, since then WVU has become their most played opponent at 103 games.
10 years, 5 months, and 9 days have passed since the last game. That is 3930 days, 94,320 hours, 5,659,200 minutes, or 339,552,000 seconds. In that time, Penn State has finished with 3 11-win season. Pitt’s highest win total was 10, only reaching that peak once. However, Pitt has never finished below 5 wins during this time. Penn State finished with a 3 and a 4 win season. When it’s all totaled up, Penn State has gone 84-72, while Pitt has gone 82-74 (these both include the full 2000 season). This comes out to a 1.28 winning percentage edge for Penn State.
Both teams have also shared their respective conference championship twice but neither team has won their conference outright. Penn State is 1-1 in BCS bowls, Pitt is 0-1. Expanding on the bowls, Pitt has gone to 8 bowl games in this span (4-4) while Penn State has gone to 7 (4-3).
Penn State has had 8 first round draft picks during this time, compared to Pitt’s 4. Each team has produced a Heisman Trophy finalist in that time with Larry Johnson finishing 3rd in 2002 and Larry Fitzgerald finishing 2nd in 2003.
Since 2000, Pitt has gone through 4 football coaches while Penn State has obviously had only Joe Paterno. When the teams last met, Walt Harris was the head coach. Walt has since “resigned” from Pitt to take the Stanford job, where he was fired after only 2 seasons (6-17, 26.1% is the lowest winning percentage in Stanford history). He then moved on to work with quarterbacks in Akron and then became the offensive coordinator at California University of Pennsylvania.
When the teams last met, Dave Wannstedt was just beginning his first season as head coach of the Miami Dolphins. Mike Haywood was a running backs/special teams coach at LSU and had a shorter arrest record. Todd Graham was finishing up his final season as a high school coach in Allen, TX before moving onto WVU the following season.
When Pitt and Penn State last met, JoePa was 73, Heinz Field had not yet opened, Tyler Palko was still in high school and attending the game as a recruit, the iPod had not yet been invented, Bill Clinton was still president, no Harry Potter movies had yet been released, “Bring It On” was one of the top movies, Madonna actually had a #1 single, Jay Leno was still the host of “The Tonight Show” (oh, wait…), and the Summer Olympic Games in Sydney, Australia were just beginning.
But let us take a look into the future…into the year 2000 and 16
When these two teams meet again in 2016, 15 years 11 months 25 days will have passed. That comes out to 5,838 days, 140,112 hours, 8,406,720 minutes, 504,403,200 seconds…or 12,610,080 times Dave Wannstedt would have called for a knee to run out the 40 second clock because he doesn’t believe that the team can score before the half. No incoming freshman this season will even be playing in this game (unless granted a 6th year of eligibility). In fact, it is probably a safe bet to say that no player on either team will be old enough to remember the last time these two teams met. Hell, by that point, we should have flying Delorians, hoverboards, and food processors that create a nuclear fusion reaction.
Yes, I just threw a lot of numbers and statistics out there. What does it all mean? Probably not a whole lot. If we can take anything out of this though, it’s that no one can say that Penn State is a superior team. They are just a team that averages finishing in the middle third of the B1G Ten conference (4.45th place of 11) as is Pitt in the BIG EAST (2.66th place out of 8). If that’s not enough and a Nitter continues to talk trash, you can give them the best numbers of all…
Don’t get me wrong, it will be great to beat them en route to Todd Graham’s second national title winning season at Pitt …
tent. Hopefully Graham can win and see Pitt not as a stepping stone but as his future where he can become a living legend much like JoePa until he over stayed his welcome and started pooping his pants.
If, I’m just saying if, ok, say Graham does ok this year, then the next 3-4 years has Pitt in the top ten and say, BCS bowls 3 out of 4 years, when the contract is due, it will be upto Pitt to pay the piper. If they win, attendance goes up, BCS bowls, it will be upto Mark and Smug Smile Steve to not make Pitt a stepping stone.
Again, don’t pummel me with posts, a huge if, just making a point about not being a stepping stone.
Look at Jamie, Pitt is no stepping stone in hoops!
However, even if Graham goes onto a better position, there is no guarantee that Pitt will benefit in the long run. Note that Brian Kelly on the BE title the last 2 years he was here but not only was he blown out in both BCS bowl games, there is no indiation that he left much for his predecessor being that Cincy finished last in a weak league.
Winning a title in a weak league can be much different than building a program.
And remember, a large part of the reason that Jamie Dixon is so loyal to Pitt is the relationship he has with Pederson and Nordenberg. If/when they leave, we had better hope that their replacements can maintain that type of relationship (although I would expect Dixon to be consulted on any new AD).
Agreed on Jaimie, not over selling his importance, but, he is now in a position to have input on the decision or at least the decision making process.
1) it is in the least exposed and most unattractive BCS conference, and as such, does not have large appeal to any recruit outside the Northeast US area.
2) its primary recruting area no longer is considered as a fertile recruiting area .. and is far behind the likes the Southeast, Southwest and California in the number of quality recruits.
3) it is in an NFL city which totally embraces the NFL team, and pays little mind to the college team … and like it or not, there is a substantial amount of alums who prefer to be at Heinz Field on Sunday than on Saturday.
Note that the above is just the opposite for the BB program.
Penn St and BC have been in the top 20 consistenly!!
How about Ohio St, (yes, giving cars away), but, Michigan (yes a couple bad years) but, in general, along with Iowa and Wisconsin. Don’t know too many people from TX and FLA. who have their sites set on Madison or Iowa City???? But, they get them.
These teams get recruits from all over. If you get coaches who can recruit, they will get kids from Fla. and Tx.. Are they gonna steal any that are going to Texas or Miami, no, but there are plenty to go around.
Frankly, being top 20 is not all that difficult. If you are 9-3 or even 8-4, you will usually find yourself in the top 20. Especially in the Big East, if you can build the program up just a little, you should easily be able to go 6-1 if not 7-0 every year. Throw in a couple cupcakes, and win one or two of the other three ooc games, voila! Weren’t we just ranked 15th a couple years ago??
I also feel, if Pitt can get going, Pitt, WVU and TCU could have some great games, and some games that will have national appeal. If we go to 12 teams, we will have alot more exposure also.
Not sure what you mean about the pro city thing. No, are we ever gonna have 65,000 for every game. They way I look at it, you have about 25k to 35k core fans who go to the games. For a decent game you get some wagon hoppers, (and I have no problem with wagonhoppers, I welcome them)
and get to 45k, and if you have a Tx AM, Neb, Iowa, marquee type games you might get over 50. For WVU, ND, and PSU you’ll get the sell out usually with some more wagonhoppers and fans from other teams. So, I really don’t see attendance as a problem to get to the top 20.
I mean, even if we just get 35k to 40k, if the team wins, they will be in the top 20.
Bottom line is, if you can get a coach to get you 9 wins or more a year, you’ll be in the top 20. Even with your reasons, being in the Big East and having two cupcakes a year, it really should not be that difficult if you have a coach that can recruit even just a little, and knows what he’s doing on game day.
P.S. Not criticizing, your points are valid, just b.s.ing the day away.
I’m not foolhardy, I know we’re not Texax, USC or Florida. But, being know as ususally a top 20 program should not be that difficult in the Big East. Again, win, baby, win. Even in the lousy Big East, when you win, you get in the top 20. Couple years ago, I believe, Cincy, WVU, Pitt, and S.Fla were top 20 or top 25 at the same time.
We’re not a fashionable league, but if you win, the pollsters will put you in. Pollsters weren’t afraid to even S. Fla and Cincy in the top 5 and even number two. If you’re 9-0 or 10-0 you’ll be in the top 5.
Win, baby, win.
The big setback in being in a pro town is not filling the stadium consistently, thus, the reaso Prior never considered Pitt … when he has been to packed houses at PSU, MIch & OSU, why would he ever cosnider Heinz with 15 – 20,000 empty seats.
Also note that I listed why Pitt can’t be an ‘annual’ Top 20 program. Surely, we can get in there here and there .. in fact, we finished 16th just 2 years ago.
I just believe there is much delusion of grandeur by many of this site who thinks that we have a chance to return to the glory days of the late 70s / early 80s.
Can be done. No delusions of grandeur here, Pitt in the 70’s was like Texas and USC are now, don’t expect that.
Top 20 two or three times every 4 years, I believe it can be done.
Well, we’ll see. Could argue back and forth on this, time will tell. Good night all.
Let’s just worry about winning games now.
Dan – PITT had 9, 10 and 8 win seasons over the last three years and was ranked in the top 20 only once in 2009. Those polls are highly influenced on how the team plays in the latter part of the season and when you blow big games like we did the voters factor that in also.
In 2008 we certainly were poised to be in the top 20 at 9-3 going into the bowl game… get shut out and it kills you.
6’1″ 214lb OLB from Bishop McDevitt HS
Had 93 tackles and 19 tackles for loss as a junior.
Choosing between Pitt, Maryland, and Temple
jsh39shd2 link
From reading the articles, though, I almost get the feeling he’s going to Maryland.
link to cle.scout.com