My goodness, Dan, I was going to read “War and Peace” tonight and follow that with the “Crime and Punishment”. However, when I finished reading and reflecting upon your TOME, I was exhausted. Please try to be more succinct. Ha, Ha. George from Buckeyeland.

Dan makes many excellent points and his basketball analogy wins his case by itself. After all, there is football talent in Western PA but not a lot of hoops talent. Ridicule that guy Rizzo who wrote to Zeise yesterday about forfeiting the BCS game, and I am not suggesting we should do that, but what clues has this team given it could beat Oklahoma State or hang with Texas A&M in the Fiesta (provided that Wannstedt can string together three straight wins to finish out this season)? The apologists keep recycling their same tired arguments that completely miss the point in year SIX. As Dan points out, Utah, Miami, and (gasp) Notre Dame are much less than they were thought to be early in the season. To the apologists: How many times do your fantasies have to be dashed before you get it?

BTW, if you haven’t yet done so, watch the Louisville-Hoopie game on ESPN3. Then say a prayer for Sunseri. The kid showed some guts in the second half last week and the fact that he actually ran a naked bootleg was a highlight of the game. Pitt’s offensive line gave up how many sacks last week? Hard to see them holding off the Mountie pass rushers. For those of you who want Bostic to play, you may get your wish in a few days.

well said dan… to any apologist who is happy with mediocrity i say to you this:

1 – you are holding this program back, your satisfaction with a lack of excellence hurts Pitt. You should expect excellence from every part of your alma mater, especially if you are contributing your hard earned dollars

2 – if you want to watch poorly coached wannstedt teams play tentatively and never play to their potential (13-9…ill give you 1 in 6 years):
link to nflfilms.com
there… you should find 11 frustrating years of Dolphins/Bears football. If you think Wanny is a good coach ask either of those fan bases if they want the yinzer back

3 – to anyone who is ignorant enough to say that we should be happy with beating 0 top 25 teams and going to the muffler bowl, I say look at these teams who did more with less recruiting, tradition, attendance, fan support, money, etc:
Boise State
Utah
TCU
Cincinnatti
Oregon
Oregon State
Arizona
Stanford
South Carolina

Thats all i can think of in a minute… teams who have done more, are further along, or are in a better place then Pitt during Wanny’s reign of ineptitude

Greetings from the road. Ran into a Rutgers grad – he noticed my Pitt gear – who lives on the East Coast of Florida, so he’s also a Dolphins fan. During the conversation he says with absolutely no prompting from me, “…well Wannstedt will always find a way to lose games he shouldn’t. We put up with that from him in Miami too.”

Had to post that especially after reading DeVanzo’s point #2.

Rev George, my apologies, here is my succint view, Pitt Football, Big East Football, and Dave Wannstedt stink to high heaven!!! Succint??? ha ha

The only stability Wanny brings are:
1. Excuses
2. Poor game-day coaching
3. Mediocre football

@Dan – you have some very good points, most of them I agree with. I disagree with toning down the marketing. But when you market heavily and things don’t come out as you would like, prepare for the criticism. Just ask the Pirates and “We Will.” They are not going to come out and say “support a 5-7 team,” you cannot successfully sell that way.

So many schools have been able to perceptively more with less in Wanny’s time, and that is a fact that NO apologist should be able to explain away. Pitt’s window for sustainable program improvement under Wanny ended when they choked away 2 conference title games against Cincy….

Gotcha Greg, just kind of wrote it to get a point across. I’m in business myself, understood.

Dan, You certainly are candid and knowlegable. You would be a formidable opponent in a debate. What you lack, in my ecclesiastical opinion is charity and a pinch of humility. I do learn from your blogs. Rev. George

No, Rev George, no, not at all. No reason to tell tales, you can say anything on the internet, so, why not the truth. I absolutely dote on my two daughters, wife, and 7 neices and nephews, and I am part of the local Toys for Tots drive. As humble, actually, very, just a small spec travelling on my journey, and I hope the good Lord has mercy on me. When it comes to Pitt football, after 37 years of cheering, ya, I probably come across as very opinionated. In person, I think, Rev. I believe you would really like me as a person. Hey, I’m passionate about Pitt, and guess I get a little uptight with the program, but, I do respect everyone elses opinion on here, and, I am certainly not a know it all. A Happy and Blessed Thanksgiving to you and yours Rev. and to all other posters on this blog, and to you too Chas. A great forum to praise, and to vent!!!

““Delusions of grandeur”??? I will address this on two points wbb. First, if you’re talking about overall 6 years, and what Pitt should be able to achieve and what Pitt fans want them to acheive. There is no reason that Pitt cannot be a consistent top 15 program, occasionally top 10, and once in awhile, be talked about, late in the season, as having hopes to possibly getting in the nat champ. (all you need to be spoken about in that light, is being 7 or 8 and 0 in early November)
I cannot break it down any simpler, than, if we had a well coached team, it could and should be easy!!”

Dan, I believe that there are 120 BCS teams. How many of those teams currently meet your criteria? What would be your suggestion to the 110 +/- teams that would like to achieve your standards but are currently not meeting your standards? Fire the coach? I know some guys that have that mentality with their wives: divorce this one because the next one will be better.

BigGuy… your analogies make no sense and are non – sequitur

how many BCS level teams have schedules so easy that they only play ONE top 25 team in the regular season, play only ONE BCS conference team in the non-con, have top 25 recruiting classes, are ranked in the preseason top 25 (15!), and have 4 losses

I COUNT ONE

” how many BCS level teams have … 25 recruiting classes”

Devanzo, I may be mistaken, but I believe a coach may have something to do with recruiting a top 25 class. It seems to me that out of 120 BCS schools, 95 head coaches were unable to recruit a top 25 class.

wow dude… you are a lost cause

the point was he is recruiting talent AND STILL LOSING

okay one more time… HE HAS LOST 4 GAMES

so your favorite head coach is recruiting top 25 classes, AND STILL LOSING 4 GAMES

one more time… top 25 recruiting class… 4losses… BAD COACH

ugh

Oh Big Guy, too, too easy. As a college football fan, you can take the last 10 or 15 years, and, I will give you two groups. Again, if you noticed, I did say, occaisionally there can be a bad year, but, within a couple years, they are back in the top 25-35 teams. So, don’t nitpick me, that, “so and so” had a bad year last year or 03′. This is just a general list, that I feel most college fans would certainly agree with. Yes, there will be a couple teams, debatable either way, but, a quick list, without much research, don’t need it, most would agree. #1 list…..the list I and many Pitt fans wish we were on……….

FLORIDA ST….NC ST…..MARYLAND…..BC……
CLEMSON….VA TECH….MIAMI…..GEORGIA TECH…
NEBRASKA…MISSOURI…OKL.ST……OKLAHOMA……
TEXAS A&M….TEXAS TECH….TEXAS…MICH ST….
OHIO ST…..WISCONSIN…IOWA……PSU……
MICHIGAN….NAVY…..TCU….UTAH…..BYU…….
AIR FORCE….FRESNO ST…..BOISE ST……..
S.CAROLINA…FLORIDA…GEORGIA…TENNESSEE……
AUBURN…LSU…..ALABAMA…..ARKANSAS……..
WASHINGTON….OREGON….OREGON ST…CAL…….
STANFORD……………………………….

There is 40 or so I’d like Pitt to be associated with. Again, just a general idea. You could pick anyone of them and say, ya, this year they stink, or two years ago. But, get any rabid college football fan, and I would bet a chocolate chip cookie 90% would agree. And, yes, a team here or there certainly can be debatable by anyone.

Now, here is the list Pitt would be on…………

WAKE FOREST….NORTH CAROLINA…DUKE……..
VIRGINIA….NORTHWESTERN…ILLINOIS…PURDUE….
MINNESOTA…INDIANA….KANSAS ST….IOWA ST…
COLORADO….KANSAS…MISSISSIPPI…MISS ST……
VANDERBILT…KENTUCKY….BAYLOR…ARIZONA….
ARIZONA ST….UCLA…..WAHINGTON ST…………..

PLUS,,THE OTHER SEVEN BIG EAST SCHOOLS. ALLTHOUGH, I WOULD PROBABLY PUT WVU IN THE ABOVE LIST. IS THAT REALLY TOO MUCH TO ASK FOR AS A PITT FAN???????

Especially being in the Big East, this should be much easier to attain than having to be consistent in the Big 10, SEC, Big 12 or Pac 10. We should be 6-1 or 7-0 every year in the Big Least??? No??? Ok, my standards must be way to high. Beat 2 or 3 cupcakes and maybe win an out of conference game or two. In the Big Least, Pitt should easily be able to be 11-1, 10-2, 9-3 every year. You have 7 Big East and two or three cupcakes, I mean, theres your 8 or 9 wins right there, without even mentioning the OOC games. Win one or two of them???????

DW has made mistakes that have disappointed me. On the plus side, he recruits well, his teams are competitive, he makes efforts to have his players graduate, and he emphasizes good citizenship and community service. My issue is with the “grass is always greener” syndrome. Some of you go back as far as I do; some even farther:

In 1963, John Michelosen went 9-1. The 1965 season, he went 3-7. We can do better. Let’s fire the coach.

His replacement, Dave Hart won 3 games total in 3 years. We can do better. Let’s fire the coach.

His successor, Carl DePasqua did not have a winning season in 4 years. We can do better. Let’s fire the coach.

From 1973 thru 1981, Pitt had outstanding teams. (Johnny Majors and Jackie Sherrill)

Foge Fazio then coached for 4 years. We can do better. Let’s fire the coach.

Mike Gottfried than coached for 4 years. We can do better. Let’s fire the coach.

Paul Hackett then coached for 3 years. We can do better. Let’s fire the coach.

Johnny Majors then coached for 4 years. We can do better. Let’s fire the coach.

Walt Harris then coached for 8 years. We can do better. Let’s fire the coach.

DW has now coached here for 6 years and many are saying: “Yonder, the grass is greener. We can do better. Let’s fire the coach.”

“In the Big Least, Pitt should easily be able to be 11-1, 10-2, 9-3 every year.”

In the Big Least, WVU should easily be able to be 11-1, 10-2, 9-3 every year.

In the Big Least, Syracuse should easily be able to be 11-1, 10-2, 9-3 every year.

In the Big Least, UConn should easily be able to be 11-1, 10-2, 9-3 every year.

In the Big Least, USF should easily be able to be 11-1, 10-2, 9-3 every year.

In the Big Least, Louisville should easily be able to be 11-1, 10-2, 9-3 every year.

In the Big Least, Cinci should easily be able to be 11-1, 10-2, 9-3 every year.

In the Big Least, Rutgers should easily be able to be 11-1, 10-2, 9-3 every year.

Absolutely Big Guy, you made my point. We are nothing more than a mediocre, at best team, playing mediocre football, with lousy football competition, and other than WV and Syracuse, playing teams with absolutely no football tradition whatsoever!!! Excellent, well-stated. You would think that a school with Pitt’s rich football tradition, and, apparently Dave Wannstedts, so called, recruiting ability, and playing in, possibly, the worst football conference ever concocted, especially, on some of the worst conferences, worst years, we could do better than 6-4??? Well put, we fit right in with Cincinati, Rugers and something called South Florida. Hey, if you’re happy with where Pitt is at, more power too you, mediocrity abounds a plenty!!!!

You noticed, the Big East is with the lower group of teams, like I said, with WVU’s past success, they should be in the top list. Just be happy with Pitt being “Minnesota”, “Virginia” and “Kentucky” and enjoy, huh??? Ok, thought Pitt was a better football program than that. You know what, if we’re gonna do that, maybe we should start playing Robert Morris, Duquesne and W&J. Get some local rivalries going. We could bring back the old Steel Bowl, for football, of course. LMAO!!!

@ BigGuy – I agree that a coaching change is not the best thing to do right now. I fully believe Wanny has 2+ seasons left anyway. With how image-conscious Pitt is, they are NOT going to fire a coach that gets Top 25 classes and plenty of players into the pros, no matter how bad they get. They will just not renew his contract. It will take 2 years to decline that much in this bad conference.

However, that does not mean that we cannot criticize or recognize the upward limit of that choice. We should be the dominant team in the BE because of our facilities, success in player development to NFL, and opportunity to play in BCS bowls every year. No other BE school has what Pitt has; if not facilities then surely cash. The upward limit though is a BE championship. Unless they get extremely fortunate, they either dont have the coaching or the players to compete. I am of the opinion that the upward limit is just consistent 8-9 win seasons. Wanny, with the right assistants & increased delegation of control to them, is a good enough coach to deliver that. Don’t confuse this with being angry at him when we have a bad loss; it’s just recognition that the end result would not be immeasurably better with someone else.

That said – GO HOME MOUNTAINQ___RS!!!

Dan’s points are completely rational and very much the sentiments of many Pitt FB fans. I don’t think anyone on this board has OSU like delusions that every year should end 12 and 0; however, Dan’s scenario of always winning the BE (easily), winning some of our OOC games, and occassionally aligning the stars for a NC is very much possible.

Trending wise, Pitt has slightly improved over the past years; however, we are NOT improving as fast as our regional foes (PSU, Cincy, Rutgers). ND (even) and Michigan (regressing) should be even more pissed as us….

a few more 5 or 6 win seasons, and we will be a statistically regressing team…

DW certainly has disappointed. My point (and, obviously, I have not articulated it very well) is that I am not confident that we would do better with a different regime. DW recruits, he is a Pitt man, he has character, his players graduate, and his teams are competitive within the conference in which we play. We’ve played musical coaches for most of the past 45 years. Although he had great records, I would not want another Jackie Sherrill as head coach. In my opinion, on balance Pitt’s program is in the black while most programs are in the red.

BTW, my data is based on the last 10 years

You know, all said I could give a sh*t. One thing right now I find important,… Beat WVA!! Hail to Pitt, Hammer the Hoopies!!!

There is one thing that every team that spends a lot of years in the Top 15 has that Pitt does not and never will…That is a rabid, and present fan base…Even in the great Dan Marino years we did not sell out a season…I believe that this is what is behind the numerous coaching changes BigGuy cites above…It does not matter who our coach is, it does not matter who our QB is, our fan base will always be more interested in a White Sale at Sears than they will in Pitt football…I’ve always said, we have about 25,000 who will show up no matter what, but PSU has 90,000 to 100,000…When PSU fans hate their coach or QB they let them know it from their stadium seat, we let ours know it from a keyboard! That’s the edge that “they” have an we don’t.

@ BigGuy, all respect to you. Your points are valid and true. Please don’t let my typing seem like I’m talking down to you or yelling. (that does come across that way in type on any board by anyone when trying to make a point when they’re excited) I respect your knowledge and opinion. We all want the best for Pitt, I’m sure. Probably where we differ, I’d like some 11-1’s back to back to back and some national pub. Yes, without the garbage, I understand where you’re coming from, but, I believe it can be done, not to beat a dead horse, but just think. 6 or 7 BE wins, 3 cupcakes, and beat one out of 2 OOC, I mean, I really feel Pitt football should be able to do that, without selling it’s soul. It’s set up nicely for that by being in the B.E. Hey, Happy Thanksgiving to you, they should be thankful some of us are on here and debating it.
@ HbgFrank. Totally agree, my Dad had me there in the 70’s even. Other than PSU,ND, and WVU, there were always some empty seats in the end zones. Those of us that can remember know this, even with Dan Marino. But, you have to admit HbgFrank, that, when we were playing well, in the top 10 or top 5, we would even get 47k to 55k for Army or Navy. So, no, I don’t envision 65k at Heinz Field, for other than ND WVU and if we ever played PSU again. I’m not delusional. (by the way, totally agree with your 25k die hards). But, if we were a perennial top 10, top 15, and say, for example, just for kicks, we were 8-1 and ranked #9, I believe we would get 45 to 50 to 55k against Syracuse or Louisville. You know, if we were part of the “Sportscenter” dialogue at the dinner hour. People were saying, “watch out for Pitt, they’re tough”, “wow, Pitt looks good, that should be a great Fiesta Bowl matchup against Nebraska!” And when I say 45-55k, I mean 45-55k warm bodies, not what Steve tells the pa announcer to say. Hey, Happy Thanksgiving to you and your family also Frank. Hope everyone has a safe one, Hail to Pitt, beat the ‘eers!!

“Please don’t let my typing seem like I’m talking down to you or yelling.”

Dan, please don’t apologize. I am not thin-skinned. I love a good argument, especially when the disagreeing view has a rational basis. If this blog were made up of all cheerleaders with identical viewpoints, it would lose much of its interest.

Good deal BigGuy, Happy Thanksgiving!!!

Likewise, Dan

here’s the first problem… youd rather have Wanny then Jackie Sherrill?

ARE YOU ON CRACK??

he had Pitt ranked number 1! 33-3?! Dan Marino!!?? College and NFL hall of famers all over the field?!?!

AND YOU WANT A COACH WHO CANT BEAT UCONN?!?!

coaches come and go, who give a shit… id rather have one that wins for a few years then bolts then some yinzer buffoon who every time he opens his mouth he cheapens the world’s opinion of Pitt academics… oh yea, and he hes beaten how many end of season top 25 teams in 6 years? HE SUCKS… on to the next one

i think this board has some that would rather have losses to Uconn… but a Pitt guy who the rest of the country would never hire because hes a buffoon… the fear of having a coach leave is ridiculous

ill take NON PITT GUYS Sherrill and Majors1 over the Wanny era of mediocrity and head scratching losses any day of the week

I will agree that Wanny does not have good public speaking skills….

“youd rather have Wanny then Jackie Sherrill?
ARE YOU ON CRACK??”

DeVanzo, at my age, character matters. In war, I believe in winning at all costs. When it comes to dealing with kids in college and representing my university, I have a different set of standards.

Not my article but it does strike a nerve – ouch!

link to bleacherreport.com

Pitt Football: Steve Pederson Now Has Ruined 2 Football Programs
By Dave DeBlasio (Pittsburgh Featured Columnist) on November 27, 2010 567
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This plea for help goes out to Nebraska fans: How did you get rid of clueless Steve Pederson and then dump his win-challenged coach?

We suffering Pitt fans need a little guidance. When it comes to football, Steve Pederson knows about as much as the cotillion committee at the Junior League.

You guys were so successful in cleaning house at Nebraska Pederson came running back into the arms of Mark Nordenberg, Pitt’s aloof chancellor who confuses being chancellor with being king.

Some readers who have made it this far are getting ready to tell me how out of line I am for picking on the man who is rebuilding athletic facilities at Pitt, increased football attendance, and administrates over a Top Five hoops program.

Re-read title, please. I’m writing about the football program here so save your equivocations for Shakespeare.

Some Pitt fans are so mad right now they can’t think straight. Two themes predominate their thinking: Wannstedt must be fired and the turf at Heinz Field sucks.

Guess what, fellow Panther fans? If Steve Pederson had gotten his way back in 1997, this dud of a coach would have been inflicted on us 13 years ago. Luckily for Pitt, Wannstedt was too busy screwing the Chicago Bears fans to bother with his alma mater.

I am a Walt Harris fan—at least a fan of Harris from 1997-2002. Harris seemed to forget that the running game and a strong defense are essential elements of a winning team. But I would take Harris back in a minute over this buffoon of a coach we have now.

Pederson sits silently through this disastrous 2010 season he is ultimately responsible for. Just like he did at Nebraska, Steve Pederson never blames himself when his decisions leave a big stink bomb right on top of the fans.

Pederson didn’t learn self-reflection from his Nebraska termination. He did, however, learn to be cautious and spread the blame around.

Pederson is quick to criticize anyone but himself. Pederson ignores fans emails and hides behind his buddy Nordenberg.

Remember, fans, he dumped Pitt to go “home” to Nebraska. He returned to Pitt when the Nebraska fans, who have a much lower tolerance level for the nonsense Pederson engages in than we do, ran his butt out of town.

Nordenberg welcomed him back and allowed him to extend Dave Wannstedt’s contract after two losing seasons and one 6-6, before Pitt’s win over West Virginia in 2007.

Pederson marked his territory by renewing loser Wannstedt before he set up his office on his return visit to Pitt.

That’s one big screw you to fans from your new athletic director.

Chancellor Nordenberg deserves his share of rebuke as do a number of Pitt chancellors who interfered in Pitt football while knowing nothing about the sport.

And please remember how Pitt left its on campus stadium to play home games in a pro venue.

The real culprit for the turf at Heinz Field is not Mr. Rooney. Pitt AD Pederson campaigned to destroy Pitt Stadium. Pitt had complete control over Pitt Stadium. Pitt owned it and could have installed natural grass.

When you give up ownership, you give up control. That’s the American way.

Like he is prone to do, Pederson made a mess because he didn’t talk to anyone about his stadium plans who weren’t fat cats. As a group, former Pitt players were opposed to Pederson’s plans and were vocal about it.

I raise the stadium issue now because turf complaints come with the territory when you use someone else’s facility. Furthermore, the college football game should be played in a college stadium, not a pro stadium.

You want to have an inspiring game day experience? Go to a game at Navy’s home stadium, or Beaver Stadium, or even Robertson Stadium on the campus of the University of Houston.

Or go to Nebraska’s stadium in Lincoln where they have exorcised all traces of Steve Pederson.

Another week will go by, Pederson will stay ensconced behind his office walls, Wannstedt will play circus master to a down-trodden, out-of-control program, and many Pitt fans will be rebudgeting for 2011 adding the money they’ll save from canceling Pitt football season tickets.

Never fear, Pitt fans, Pederson’s moment of accountability is coming. Keeping Wannstedt around for next season will guarantee a loss of season ticket sales and a shrinking fan base in 2011.

Increasing home football attendance is the one task we know for certain Nordenberg charged Pederson to accomplish.

Hey Husker fans: We have an A.D. we can give you—real cheap, too.

The good news about all of this talk is that Dave and Steve both have to begin to understand that they are accountable. We all realize that nothing will change for at least 2 years (wanny signed through 2014) but we can at least force the issue of accountability. If Steve Pederson notices a drop in season ticket sells next season then he will have to answer to Nordy. Pederson isn’t responsible for winning games but he is responsible for the negative outcome of loss… drop in season and individual ticket sales.