How can anyone have confidence in such a blundering idiot? I think the summation of all of our complaints (and those of my Miami/Chicago friends) is that he is simply not very intelligent. That explanation can easily wrap around the decision to abandon recruiting Florida, to never change your stagnant offfensive game plans, to never blitz, to stubbornly stick with your mistakes with personnel, to give a holder who blew the season a scholarship, to buy shares in a Florida bank in 2005-7, to constantly play not to loser rather than to win, to run the ball when the game is on the line an dyou have 93 yards to go…. etc etc etc

WALT HARRIS VS DAVE WANSTACHE
————————————————–
1997 Pittsburgh 6–6 4–3 3(t) L 7–41 Liberty Bowl
1998 Pittsburgh 2–9 0–7 8
1999 Pittsburgh 5–6 2–5 6(t)
2000 Pittsburgh 7–5 4–3 3(t) L 29–37 Insight Bowl
2001 Pittsburgh 7–5 4–3 3(t) W 34–19 Tangerine Bowl
2002 Pittsburgh 9–4 5–2 3 W 38–13 Insight Bowl 19
2003 Pittsburgh 8–5 5–2 3 L 16–23 Continental Tire Bowl
2004 Pittsburgh 8–4 4–2 1-T L 7–35 Fiesta Bowl † 25
Pittsburgh: 52–44 28–27
————————————————–
2005 Pittsburgh 5–6 4–3 T-3rd — — —
2006 Pittsburgh 6–6 2–5 6th — — —
2007 Pittsburgh 5–7 3–4 T-3rd — — —
2008 Pittsburgh 9–4 5–2 T-2nd L Sun — —
2009 Pittsburgh 10–3 5–2 T-2nd W Meineke Car Care 15 15
2010 Pittsburgh 2–3 0–0

PAUL HACKETT – 13 wins 20 losses and 1 tie
MIKE GOTTFRIED -26 WINS 16 losses and 2 ties

We have been a mediocre football since the 70’s so it doesnt matter what coach we have.
Hopefully someone gets the head out of their ass soon. WIN THE BIG EAST, GO TO THE BCS GAME AND WIN!
HAIL TO PITT!

As a 2008 alum I have lost all my confidence in our foobtball program. I also have no confidence in winning Saturday aginst Syracuse.For the first time in several years Syracuse people are going to be fired up to beat us along with the players who remember us beating pounding them the last few years. Is there anything for me at this point to have confidence???

Why does Syracuse feel like a must win?

Not just for the Big East title, but moreso for preventing a entire season collapse.

Maybe I am overstating it, certainly this isn’t as bad as the 2007 season…but it just feels like there is an urgency in the air.

DaveD

stop comparing him to Walt and saying mediocrity is good enough!!! that is such an asinine comparison. Additionally, Walt played in a MUCH MORE DIFFICULT CONFERENCE. Dave would NEVER beat Miami, Virginia Tech, or perhaps BC. Do you honestly think this buffoon could outcoach Frank Beamer like Walt did?

Walt put us back on the map, and stocked the team with plenty of national talent for it to be taken to the next level. His time was up, and it was time for Pitt to move forward. Stache has taken the program back several steps and appears to be intent on dragging us back BELOW PSU and WVU.

why is it good enough for you? please explain that? Again I feel like im taking crazy pills. Stache has demonstrated over and over again that he is clueless at coaching football, literally he doesnt know how to do it in a manner that wins games against equal competition at any point over the last 20 years. And you are satisfied with this? This type of complacency would have kept Ralph Willard at Pitt. It also will ensure Pitt’s attendance dwindles away and we start to lose recruits… there has to be ACCOUNTABILITY

Absolutely correct Pole. Funny, have seen some posts on here, people fighting back and forth, “well, would you rather have Harris?” “Ya, I’d rather have him, Wanny stinks” blah, blah, blah. I’d rather have neither. Mediocrity pervades. “ok, you’re so smart, who would you get?” I have no idea, and I don’t get paid millions and hundreds of thousands of dollars to know that answer, but, what I do know, is what I see. MEDIOCRITY!!!!! From what I’ve seen, I do think Nordenberg wants a winner, but, what’s that, I’ve seen him interviewed several times and gone by what people have said. I’m sure it’s not fun for Pederson to have a loser on his hands. I’ve never claimed to have any answers, but, I am about out of emotion and energy to care about football anymore. Spent all summer gearing up, college football magazines left and right, psyched up for the big year we turn the corner………………

Wanny’s coaching, not his recruiting, is holding the program back.

It’s a give-and-take situation I guess. You sacrifice coaching prowess for more talent.

Pete Carroll was another shitty NFL coach that won in college because he could recruit. And while our recruiting has improved, it’s nowhere near USC’s during Carroll’s tenure, and not nearly good enough to overcome bad coaching like the Trojans did.

There is and was talent at Pitt. Aaron Berry’s a prime example.

Playing in Wanny’s ultra-conservative defenses drove him from being a 4 star recruit, to not being drafted (half the reason our corners can’t cover a comeback route is Wanny’s soft-ass schemes).

He gets picked up as an undrafted free agent in Detroit, makes the team (I don’t care if it is Detroit, the NFL’s the NFL), and actually played a pretty nice game for them in his first EVER NFL game (a few tackles and a pick) in the opener before getting hurt for the year.

So yeah, there’s been talent for him, he’s just a boneheaded, neanderthal, closed-minded coach. Always has been.

I’m actually afraid that Wanny’s coaching is driving us to become one of those programs that sends a lot of guys to the NFL that have success there, but can’t win in college.

One other thing…

maybe it doesn’t sound like much but the fact that the Stache loves to play close games means very little game reps for the depth chart.

As you have to play the death struggle with the likes of FIU/UNH for the whole game.

Nothing simulates experience like actual game experience.

Perhaps the reason our underclassmen seem so unprepared when they start is they have very little game time experience.

Perhaps it’s not much but it seems like we keep on returning to these kids not being ready for primetime.

I actually don’t think it’s one thing. I think it’s a combo and a lot of it has to do with how the Stache develops and coaches. It’s holding back good recruiting classes.

DaveD

DeVanzo, you have a nasty streak and go to extremes. Mediocrity? We played in bowl games the last two years. How many teams did that? Less than 32 out of 110+. Last year we were ranked the 15th best team in the country after the final poll i.e. higher than about 100 other schools. We were ranked No. 8 for a while. What kind of a sliding scale do you have? Teams that are ranked 1 thru 14 are excellent and that are ranked 15 thru 110 are mediocre?

From my perspective, every week the fans of about 50% of all colleges are really ticked-off on their coach, think that their coach made some bone-headed decisions, and think that their coach can be replaced with someone superior. I was not in favor of terminating Walt Harris. I remember how he came into a situation where there was utter chaos and made us respectable. As long as he was going to be replaced, I was and still am glad that it was with DW, a Pitt man who loves his school, who has character, who has his players’ interest at heart, and who puts a competitive product on the field.

Actually, there were 28 bowl games last year, that is 56 teams out of 117 div teams. That is almost half the teams go to bowl games. They are adding a couple more this year, and the NCAA is in a quandry, because they may have to send team with a losing record to a bowl game. Ya, last year above average, over the last 20 years, I agree with him, the word MEDIOCRITY fits just fine!!!

Allthough, I have to admit, we are definitely not mediocre this year, I absolutely agree, we are far from mediocrity this year!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yo guys, at least we still have Pitt basketball. Am I right or AM I RIGHT!!??

I watched Revis play last night and he deserves all the accolades. I spent 3 years watching him at Pitt, as Wanny had him playing in space most ot the time. I isolated him on tapes (as I had heard all the fuss) and he showed me he was good but not great…..well,. he is great. And it was Wanny’s schemes plus no one throwing to his side that held him back. WVU ran all over and around him at Pitt. He is a completely different player in the pros.

Sunday evening watched Shady play. He also is a different player and was told he was not strong enough when he arrived in the pros. He is now. Those are just the facts. Draw your own conclusions.

And yes, go to any college blog after a loss and you will see discontent fans with some aspect of the coach. However, you will never see a blog like ours, Miami’s or Chicago’s when Wanny coached displaying the outpouring of frustration and disgust with the waste of another afternoon. All the comments are the same and that is NO accident. I believe Pitt will lose badly to a very mediocre Cuse team. Still, hope I am wrong…but have come to expect the worst. We are truly at a crossroads with Pitt Football.

so now we have gotten to the point where Wanny’s schemes held back Revis, who was drafted No. 14 in the 1st round after his junior year. I also happen to know that Wanny actually doubled as economic advisor to Bush and is currently on retainer for fiscal advice to Obama.

This is starting to sound like Rush about 8 or 9 years ago when he blamed everything wrong in the world on Bill and Hilary.

Wanny deserves his share of the blame for the season so far, no doubt. I will say though that this is the same coach that won 10 games for Pitt for the first time in awhile, and were a few plays from winning a couple more. Probably a few plays away from a couple of losses too though to be fair. Maybe the players overachieved and won in spite of him last year, I dunno. I understand the frustration, it’s tough watching the team lose when you see some of the talent out there. In the end though, wanny isn’t a different coach today than he was in 2005. Some years it’s clicked and this year it hasn’t. Last year fans seemed a little more forgiving, but hey, that’s sports today. I’m not trying to be an apologist for wanny, I think it’s fair to grill him and the staff on why the depth on the lines this year or so thin, but as far as his coaching philosophies and strategies, they are what they are, we’ve all known that, and sometimes it works and right now well…let’s see how the big east season plays out. Hail!

End rant.

I Actually liked Walt (wide receiver U) and Dave (Pro style) I want PITT to go 12-0 every year but I am becoming more of a realist, Also just because you are a high recruit doesnt mean Spit when saturday rolls around A. Berry sucked! he was 5 foot nothing and got beat alot. we won 10 games last year for the first time since 1980…so that has to mean something? arrests, suspension, penalties doesnt make you a very focused team and everyone has to admit our line is no where near last years(its does look better since nix moved to guard) I really think we can win the Big East.

kenny, you need to go back and read zeise’s end of regular season summary where he details a laundry list of all the things that went right for pitt last year…and still no BE title, no BCS bowl. cincy, l’ville, wvu. they’ve all managed to win the BE multiple times since wanny’s been in charge. none of those teams was significantly more talented than pitt. it took wanny 4 years to win 9 games in a terrible league. please. wanny needs to go. give someone else a chance to get pitt to the ‘next level’.

Wbb …I knew you were a liberal communist at heart! The last people supporting Wanny and Oboma.
11/2 can not get here quick enough for both!

Mr. Zeise, Sir, In all honesty your column today was one of, if not THE best sports analysis I’ve ever read. And I’ve been on the Pitt sports beat since 1948. You have improves immensely as a journalist this year. As a matter of fact,Sir, it is your writing that keeps me turning to the PG sports page every day. And, I live in Columbus where the Buckeye pundits can’t even carry your gym bag. Congratulations. You have earned my utmost respect, Sir. Rev. George

POLE….you had me agreeing with you until “I really think we can win the BE…”

get real. hopefully there was jest in there.

I love Pitt. I love Pitt sports. I love everything about this school. I don’t love this team…anymore or DW.

@Pole,
Pitt wasn’t mediocre in the early 1980’s. I don’t know what you’ve been smoking. Maybe 70’s hash. Pitt was 11-1 in 1980 and ranked #2 by AP & UPI (#1 in the NY Times Poll). Pitt was 11-1 in 1981 and was ranked # 1 all year until the PSU game and finished #2 (UPI) & #4 (AP) after beating Georgia in the Sugar Bowl and Pitt was 9-3 in the 1982 season and finished ranked #9 (UPI) and #10 (AP) losing in the Cotton Bowl. In 1983 Pitt was 8-3-1 ranked #18 (AP) & #19 (UPI) losing to Ohio State in the Fiesta Bowl by a couple points in the final moments. Those were NOT mediocre years, they were part of the Pitt ‘Glory Years’, along with the 1930’s and 1963 (9-1) ranked #4 (AP) & #3 (UPI), 1910 (10-0), the Pop Warner years: 1915 (8-0), 1916 (8-0),1917 (10-0), the early Jock Sutherland years 1927 (8-1-1) Rose Bowl, 1929 (9-1) Rose Bowl.
Hail to Pitt !

The lessons learned from 1985 was we fired Foge Fazio to quickly. As that decision put Pitt into a tailspin that lasted for roughly 15 years with only a couple years of mediocrity. Pitt finished ranked in 2009 as #15, our highest ranking at the end of the season since 1983. That friends is 26 years, let ME REPEAT THAT, THAT IS 26 YEARS. While I too get very exasperated with Wanny, the facts are the facts, despite the current 2-3 record he has the program going in the right direction. THE BIGGEST PROBLEM I SEE, is who he is choosing to play QB, the most important position on the field. We would be 4-1 right now, with a more competent QB, no question about it. And none of you (well there would still be a few) would be questioning Wanny. Let’s leave this thing alone and not make another huge mistake as we made in 1986 in letting go Foge. For those of you to young to remember, Foge Fazio was a Pitt man, a very good recruiter and went on to become one of the best D-Coordinators in the NFL for several teams and a lot of years. That decision put Pitt in a terrible predicament for over 15 years. Let’s not make it again. Learn from history.

It’s been 6 years, and, we’re regressing. If, if we we’re 4-1, we’re not. Foge had national title contender material to work with in 82′ and 83′, lost three games both years, 84 was an 8 loss season and 85 was a 6 loss season, he may have turned out to be a great coordinatior in the pros, but, who says he didn’t get enough time, he could have gotten worse, he was the beginning of the tailspin!!! 6 years I might add, in one of the worst football conferences ever assembled, and still no title. Total confusion on the sidelines, deer in headlight looks from players and coaches. How many years do you get, should we wait until 10?? Sure, you can go an find a couple of stories where people say, “thank goodness we stayed with him, look where we are now”. For everyone of those, you can find 10 where the programs continued to slide. Don’t have the right qb after 6 years, whose fault is that?? Offensive line is inexperienced, whose fault is that?? I mean, sure, other teams lose players, but, they have people waiting in the wings. I’m not asking to be national champion, how bout a consistent top 15 program, top 20 program, too much to ask. Ya, we finished in the top 14 last year, and have been treated to one of the most disappointing seasons since Foge’s first, when we were favored to win the National Championship!!

Wannstedt is incorrectly labeled as a loser while Miami Dolphins Head Coach. For the record his overall record at Miami was 42 Wins and 31 losses in 4 and half seasons, while taking the Dolphins to the playoffs in 2 of the 4 seasons he coached. This while his QB was the great Jay Fiedler. The supposed great Jimmy Johnson was only 36 Wins & 28 losses at the same Miami Dolphins. So in fact Wannstedt had a better winning % than the great Jimmy Johnson at Miami. His overall NFL coaching record is a shade less than .500 at 82-86. While Wanny is no Einstein, tell me a college coach who is. The fact that he is a yinzer might well be why some people will never accept him as being competent.

My belief is that Dolphins fans were so frustrated that Jimmy Johnson didn’t deliver the goods(ie. a NFL championship), that they took that frustration out on who was still in town. That being Wanny.
And that friends is how people and their frustrations work. Jimmy J. was long gone and working for CBS, so you take it out on someone that is available.

Foge’s first two teams went to the Cotton Bowl (at that time the Cotton Bowl was one of the Big 4) and the Fiesta Bowl, losing narrowly to Ohio State. Considering the 1983 team lost the great Dan Marino and many others, going 8-3-1 was pretty good. I was at one of those losses @Maryland, where Pitt pretty much gave the game away and lost 7-13 after driving the length of the field in the final moments only to not score. the other loss was by 3 to WVU and a 24-24 tie with Diaper Joe’s boys. 1984 started with games with BYU (who won the National Championship that year at 13-0) and Oklahoma (who finished ranked #6 and playing in the Orange Bowl), Pitt lost both games and finished 3-7-1, but Foge did manage to beatup Penn State, 31-11 at DiaperValley. The scheduling that year had more to do with the disappointing record than anything, IMHO. The next year Pitt went 5-5-1 and they fired Foge. So he had one losing year in 4 years and they panicked, it was a bad move in hindsight. Foge loved Pitt, grew up in Coraopolis, played for Pitt and was a great recruiter. That decision made Pitt into a turnstile for coaches for 15 years, the infamous Hacket years and Majors II and some of the worst years for Pitt football since the late 1960’s, early 70’s under Carl DePasqua and the horrendous Dave Hart (3 wins – 27 losses). I will not jump on the fire DW bandwagon. Let’s not be to quick to overreact here guys, we’re supposed to be men. At least I am.

First, I will always root for PITT…in 72, I sat through (as a student) a 1-10 team, and rooted hard (with the proper liquid refreshments, of course)…so, now, we’ve started slow, but despite all the hand-wringing, (and yes, I am just as upset as anyone here), with Wanny we know what we’re going to get.

He plays not to lose, he is not going to be agressive, and probably won’t dictate the terms of the game…it can be hard to watch, and at times, it is painful. He recruits well, believes in PITT, and will, all in all, win more games than he loses.

With the right talent, he can win on talent alone, but because he plays not to lose, he’s unlikely to be aggressive and step on the gas—you want more, but with Wanny, what you see is what you get. He won’t outscheme anybody, but believes in sticking with the basics—and tries to build a fundamentally sound, but basic team.

He’s not a Ferrari nor a Yugo, but a Chevy Impala.

Just understand what we have..a dedicated PITT alum coaching a vanilla team.

Hail to PITT!
-al-

Glass half full/or half empty? I am a dreamer i guess… I love all pitt sports! Hate penn state and WVU! I see everyones point of view on here and one thing we all can agree on is that we love PITT!

HAIL TO PITT!

I think DW’s biggest problem is his conservative philosophy that just doesnt fit in college football today. As someone else pointed out, you can win with DW’s system but it requires almost perfect execution and you simply cant make any mistakes because there is no room for error. It does amaze me though when you see a team like Boise that seems to execute to perfection consistently – what makes the difference? Is it all coaching? player dedication? scheme? a combination of all three??? Until DW plays a more aggressive style of football that attacks rather than reacts Pitt will never be an elite team.

BigGuy – stop drinking the koolaide. last year’s season was a FRAUD. Per my earlier posts, we were favored every single game… that’s right, our schedule was so amazingly easy were projected to go 13-0 last year (only other team was Florida). We only played two teams in the final top 25, and they were both losses from Big East play. That schedule was an historic cake walk. That team would most certainly have lost to both Miami and Virginia Tech. What people fail to understand is how much more difficult the Big East was under Walt (Im not saying firing Walt wasnt justified, im saying Dave is just as mediocre because he beats creampuffs).

Numbers… our best win statistically was over NAVY… I love the Middies but thats not an elite program, they werent ranked at one point last year. Next, it was the signature win over Rutgers?! We went 1-1 against the midtier ACC teams as well. That team is an 8-4 team in the prior big east… and a 7-5 or 6-6 team had we played Utah or another ranked non-conference team. Starting to see how big of a joke that “10 win season” was?
link to realtimerpi.com

Virgil – the hiring of Foge Fazio was a DISASTER. Many of you either were ignorant to what was going on with Pitt football at the time, or just choose to remember it more fondly now that the years have passed. Foge Fazio was hired because he was a “Pitt Guy” despite any success in head coaching and a completely different profile from the last two coaches (Majors-Tenn, Jackie-Bama). His hiring was protested at great lenghts by many boosters instrumental in hiring Majors/Sherrill, but the “Pitt Guy” crowd won out (sound familiar?? idionts wanting to hire Wanny instead of Bo Pelini and Tom Bradley!) He inherited the best team/program in the country… 1982 Pitt was preseason number 1 with Marino/Fralic/Covert and the crew.
link to en.wikipedia.org
He somehow found a way to lose 3 games including getting beat by PSU.,,he then proceeded to bring us to mediocrity with a 3 win and 5 win season. Firing his was 100% warranted… and the only reason Gottfried didnt succeed was because Posvar increased academic requirements to athletes like a complete moron and nearly destroyed Pitt football.

Consider yourself schooled

Pitt’s current power rpi…90… lowest since Dave was hired.

DeVanzo: Like BigGuy said you have a nasty streak and go to extremes, and the nastiness in particular makes it difficult to take you seriously and even more difficult to agree with you. BUT I have to agree with your last post.

As I’ve stated many times, I was not a fan of the Wanny hire for many of the reasons stated here. But, I grew to accept him because of his fervor for Pitt and the steady progress made on and off the field. Last year got me buying into the whole package albeit with some reservation, because as you correctly pointed out Pitt played a fairly weak schedule and won several close games that could have gone either way. The emergence of the offense under Cig and a defense that led the nation in sacks without a lot of blitzes helped make the season exciting, in spite of Wanny’s boring, vanilla, conservative style, and led to higher expectations this year.

I bought into the preseason media hype and #15 ranking despite Wanny himself saying there were holes on this team. Seems like many here did the same. The result is a whole bunch of frustration over what many betting experts actually said would happen – Pitt would lose to Utah, Miami and ND. But, they also said Pitt would contend with WVU for the Big East title. As I recall, that was the stated goal for the team by Wanny himself. As mediocre of a goal as it may seem, that is the goal. That goal is still possible, so it’s the only reason I’m not writing the season off – and won’t write it off until we’re mathematically out of the race.

As far as Wanny: Reed’s post in the other thread made a lot of sense from a financial standpoint. Coupling that with the facts that he has talent in the Sophs and Freshmen, his best recruiting class ever is coming in 2011, and the administration and many boosters are still behind him, says that you can scream “fire Wanny NOW” all you want but it’s not going to happen. As a realist not an apologist or someone settling for mediocrity, I defer to one of Mike Tomlin’s favorite sayings: “It is what it is.” Therefore, the debate on whether or not to fire Wanny IMHO is a waste of brainpower and eventually will put you “on crazy pills”.

The debate really should be about how to save this season and restore some of the pride we had before it began. To me, that starts with Wanny turning over all game day responsibilities to the coordinators and becoming more of a CEO like AZ Panther suggested in a previous post. The big question is can he put his ego aside and do that? If he’s truly a “Pitt man”, he will.

Very disappointing season, Wanny’s spin, a work in progress. It is and will be left up to the guys who play the game to determine how this all pans out. Right now, with the talent on this team, Pitt CAN still win the Big East. It’s a weak conference and with a couple wins in a row this team could start to play up to their potential. It’s all about mental attitude and up to this point there has been a lack of concentration and no confidence which produces mistake ridden, under achieving results. With Wannstedt’s coaching, there will be no rabbits pulled out of the hat. Good execution needs to be shown on the field to turn this ship around. A BE Championship CAN still be had, thats why they play the games! As always, we’ll see.

TampaT- do understand my anger is directed towards Wannstache, those who hired him, and the team’s pathetic performance. It is most certainly NOT aimed at any of the posters here. We are all Pitt fans, and we are here because we care deeply about this program… I may grow frustrated with Wanny apologists, but it is ranting – nothing more

Despite how good his recruiting classes are, he will never win the big games and get Pitt where it should be with the talent, facilities, history/presence, and support.

To anyone that says Pitt has been mediocre for 25 years… look at what Kelly did with ZERO recruits, no history, barely any support, and only 3 years. He never had a losing season at Cincy… he won 2 Big East championships… he ran the table in the Big Least… he owned Wanny 2 years with teams with HALF the talent…He beat good non conference teams on the road..etc etc etc

how can many of you continually say we should be happy and this is all pitt is capable of when kelly did so much more with so much less?

clearly coaching is the weak link

The stache needs to adopt the Paterno approach: Stand along the sidelines and look important but dont talk to any coaches and keep all headsets away from him. The program would take huge leaps forward.

ESPN Classic replayed the Pitt Syracuse game at the carrier dome from October 2000 the other night. There was a ton of talent on that team: Antonio Bryant, Ramon Walker, Latef Grim, Bryan Knight, Claude Harriot, Torrie Cox, Rod Rutherford, Shawntae Spencer, Lousaka Polite, Andy Lee, Nick Goings, Kevan Barlow, Gerald Hayes, Rob Petiti, Kris Wilson…

fyi, Pitt lost in double overtime on a syracuse 3rd and 20 busted play touchdown….so many heartbreaks I’ve forgotten over the years.

Again, I agree with you DeVanzo.

Kelly is a great game day coach. You saw that last year and again this year against Pitt. He got Pike’s head back into the game last year, and he made tempo changes that resulted in key scoring drives for ND this year. I need to see how he handles the pressure at ND before crowning him a great HC. He had zero pressure at Cinci, and he’s getting a pass this year for the most part.

Wanny is a terrible game day coach. Like many said, he plays not to lose. Special teams, his personal responsibility are a mess, and major adjustments come at halftime, when the coordinators are with the players instead of in the booth.

I think Wanny’s overall, long-term strategy is sound. It will keep Pitt in games against teams with more talent and it will get Pitt recruits looking to play at the next level. As others have pointed out, it’s not all that different from Saban’s. To me that says he can succeed as a HC, but only if the coaching on the field is turned over to the coordinators. I think Coach Ditka and I are on the same page there.

Wanny’s strategy also keeps opponents with inferior talent in the game. This leads to inexplicable upset losses (e.g. Ohio U, Bowling Green, NC State, UConn, Navy, etc.). The evidence leads me to believe that the strategy is the opposite of sound. It is antiquated and not suited for the college game. Furthermore, I don’t want to see kids that play at Pitt and not accomplish much in their college career and then have to watch them have a ton of success in the NFL. Great for the young man, but what does that do for me?

Omar: I think you’re confusing what I meant by overall strategy with game day strategy.

That overall strategy – pro style offense, 4-3 defense, strong running game, strong defensive front, etc. – had Alabama in the national title hunt the past three years. And, they may yet make it two out of three depending on how the chips fall. I think Alabama still plays COLLEGE football. Many SEC and Big Ten teams use that overall strategy. I believe those are the two strongest COLLEGE conferences.

Wanny’s game day use of that strategy however, leaves a lot to be desired.

“It’s not all that different from Saban’s”…, except the going 14-0 and winning the national title part. If you don’t have the talent to achieve those results by playing that way, then changes need made. The coaching will never be turned over to the coordinators during the game, unless Wanny is forced to do so — by the AD stepping in or from sheer embarrasment after a 3-4 win season…and still he probably wouldn’t do it. The dude is crazy stubborn, which helps him at times but hurts him badly when adjustments need made. Guys in their 50s who’ve made it as far as Wanny has, don’t typically change…hope he’s an exception to that, but I sorta doubt it.

Wanny’s is an expert on doing less (wins) with more (talent). How does Boise State, TCU or even Utah win with recruiting that constantly inferior.
One word: COACHING!

“Wanny’s strategy also keeps opponents with inferior talent in the game. ”

Omar, maybe we should try to hire an established, respected coach like VT’s Frank Beamer. Look how Virginia Tech kicked hell out of inferior James Madison this year. (er…ah…, I checked that score and that was probably not a good example. Actually, my research suggests that there appears to be a number of upsets of various teams every year.)

“and the only reason Gottfried didnt succeed was because Posvar increased academic requirements to athletes like a complete moron and nearly destroyed Pitt football.”

DeVanzo, did Posvar really increase the academic requirements for Pitt’s athletes???? How could he have done such a thing! Oh, my! No wonder you are so upset.

BigGuy

why do you constantly defend Wanny’s patterns with anomalies?

VT lost to James Madison… Pitt has many losses to inferior opponents… therefore Pitt=VT

really?

in the words of Cris Carter… Come on man

The Wanny Apologists are in full-on lockdown defense right now… classic!

Look at Bo Pellini now, we couldn’t pay him $10 mil a year to come here. There has always been some lame local bias / homerism with this university that’s held it back for a long time. And until someone takes the bitter pill and cleans house in the FO it’ll stay that way.

BigGuy:
Please join the reality-based fans.

Comparing Virginia Tech’s upset loss this year to Pitt is ludicrus!! Yes, every top team has an upset occaisionally. Alabama got upset by S.Car last week. What we’re talking about, is on ongoing fog and ineptness, that is actually tangible to the eye!!! Every year we have several of these “upset” games, that other teams have once every 3-5 years. Get me the schedule the past 12 years, under Wanny and Walt, I will reel of a litany of unbelievabe, and should be (have been) unacceptable losses. Most of us aren’t pining to be Alabama or Texas either, how about a consistent top 15 team year in and year out, where an 8-4 record is not reaching to the heights, but, rather, an “off” year, or a rebuiling year. Yes, I know, 10-3 last year, like the fellow said, favored in every game, one of the weakest schedules, and, out of the last 12-15 years, an anomaly!!

Great to come in on your lunch break and start calling people apologists and not reality-based without taking time to understand the context of the thread.

The context of my posts are: I’m not a Wanny fan, but LOGIC and REALITY says we’re stuck with him, and probably for a while. So how can Pitt football succeed with him, and more importantly in spite of him?

How about some posts along those lines instead of the dreamworld musings of we could have had Pellini or there’s a young, magical football version of Jamie Dixon out there just dying to take us to the promised land?

Coach Ditka and I both said he needs to hand over the game planning and in-game coaching to the coordinators – totally. I think the overall strategy of proven pro-style football still works in the college game and will eventually lead to better recruiting classes. But again, Wanny needs to let the coordinators handle the tactics.

Matt N.: I hear you regarding Wanny being stubborn. I’m HOPING, WISHING, PRAYING that he realizes he needs to trust his hires and hand over the gameday duties. I’m Wanny’s age and I’ve been successful in my field, but only because I’m constantly adapting my strategy to conditions. I don’t change the strategy. I change the tactics.

Tactical change #1 for Wanny: Take off the headphones on game day.

Tony, I am not sure what you mean by your comment. I go back to the late 50’s and early 60’s when the graduation rates for the football teams and basketball teams were nearly 100%. The majority of the players received professional degrees (dentistry, law, MD, engineering, education, etc.) I believe that Rev. George will confirm. I realize that someone heard the raven say, “Nevermore”, but I feel a great deal of angst when I listen to the interviews with some of our players. The newspapers writers also appear to print quotes of our players verbatim. I can’t remember the last time a player started a sentence with, “My teammates and I…” It invariably it is, “Me and my teammates…” and then it gets worse. I am often embarrassed that some of these athletes are students at my university. Personally, I would much rather have a team with a modest win – loss record that is composed of literate players than have a national championship team composed of players with bogus degrees who could not pass an elementary test in grammar.

Pitt interviewed Bo Pelini

groundswell of support for “Pitt guy” hire made the Wanny choice all but a sure thing despite Pelini’s better credentials

and guess what… a fan/booster movement to fire him will ensure it happens… this hopeless crap is nonsense… he doesnt generate enough revenue to cover his salary… the boosters pay it, and they will decide his fate

BigGuy

you are in the 1% club… go cheer for an Ivy League team… and dont worry, they bend rules for football players too. Not as much, but the vast majority of the kids on the teams couldnt get in without football

whether or not you like it, football teams are assembled to win, not to improve the medical field in America. And rather, let the doctor study medicine, let the kid from coral gables play football and maybe turn into a college grad and businessman… your statement is completely blind to the good that football has brought to many underprivileged kids from dead end backgrounds

do yourself a favor and watch ESPN’s “THE U”… it is tremendous and will show you how a team can help a community, and its not by fielding a team of upper class pre meds who try really hard

TampaT:

I don’t have a problem with a pro-style offense or a 4-3 defense. I have a problem with Mr. Wannstedt’s application of the offense and defense. He coaches to keep both teams in the game which leads to upsets. Pitt has had more talent than the opponent in all but a handful of games in the past 3 year. Unfortunately Pitt still can’t avoid losses to inferior teams each and every year. That is my point. Your point is well taken.

Not sure how Pelini had better credentials since he’d never been a head coach and Wanny was just as successful during his college stints. But again, I was not in favor of the Wanny hire and more importantly, that’s all in the past. We don’t have a time machine to go back and correct mistakes of the past using hindsight.

“a fan/booster movement to fire him will ensure it happens”

Absolutely, but let’s look at the facts:
1. Based on Reed’s calculation, it will take $4.2 million to buy out his contract and Wanny needs the money. The university won’t do that, so it will be up to the boosters. If any of you has an extra half-million dollars lying around, please lead the charge. I’ll be right behind you.
2. Wanny’s coming off consecutive winning seasons and the best season in years (I know. Easy schedule, etc.) This season is not over and so far Pitt has lost only as expected. Even if it goes further South, it will probably be looked at as a bump in the road, because he warned everyone in advance that he had some major holes to fill with inexperienced players.
3. He’s stockpiled talent in the lower classes and he has his best class ever coming in for 2011.
4. I haven’t heard of anyone in the administration or among the major contributors calling for his resignation. If anyone has, please enlighten me. That would certainly change my thought process.

Therefore, again LOGIC says we’re stuck with him for now.

Hopeless thinking says, “We’ll never win with Wanny, so let’s all jump off a building.” I’d rather focus on how do we win with Wanny and in spite of Wanny.

Thanks, Omar. Right there with you. His decisions/indecisions, going into the foxhole instead of going for the throat, and waiting until he falls behind to get agressive on offense and defense drives me crazy, as it does everyone.

That’s why Pitt will only move forward when he gives up the game day coaching, either because he finally sees the light or he’s forced to do so (includes firing). I like his passion and vision for bringing the glory back to Pitt football, so I hope it’s the former.

“your statement is completely blind to the good that football has brought to many underprivileged kids from dead end backgrounds”

DeVanzo, during my time at Pitt, most of the players came from “working” families. Many were the sons of immigrants who were coal miners and steel workers. Their parents spoke broken English and were either uneducated or undereducated. Yet these “underprivileged kids” learned proper grammar and went on to receive meaningful degrees. I refuse to believe that the prior “underprivileged kids” were somehow superior to today’s “underprivileged kids” in their abilities. Obviously, this is a complex subject that may have something to do with “expectations”.

There is nothing wrong with a pro-offense, if you can get the players to run it. There are not enough great linemen that Wanny could get to implement that scheme successfully here.

Dave is also VERY closed-minded and NEVER takes accountability. To me, that is why is he will not take Pitt to the next level on the field. He does not have the strategic thinking or leadership qualities.

One thing I don’t get is his image of being a great coach except during game days. How many times have we seen Pitt not able to defend the spread, look completely unprepared (for example the cleat issue on Sat.), or just play flat. That directly contradicts the “great” football mind persona Wanny has.

They won’t be getting ride of him for at least another couple of years, so at least we will have something to talk about! All the heat he gets is well-placed and deserved; don’t say you are going to be national contenders in 3 years and then be upset when you are called out.

Greg: You just gave perfect examples of poor game day coaching.

Actually, Pitt’s defended the spread pretty well (USF, WVU, even Utah and ND in the second halves). What they haven’t defended well was the tempo of the offense. That adjustment can only be made after the game begins, and it had to wait until halftime in both cases instead of after the first series.

The cleat issue was clearly game day. They had the right cleates in the bag, but didn’t change them until halftime. Shanahan should have changed his during warmups or at worst after the first slip. The second slip led to an interception and points for ND.

Coming out flat is also game day. What’s said in the locker room to get the kids fired up to play? What’s done during the game to shake out the cobwebs, like Kelly did with Pike in last year’s Cinci game? What’s done during the game to change momentum? I’ve got a feeling it goes something like, “Play hard. Don’t make mistakes.” That would sure get me fired up.

BigGuy, i have no idea what relevance that has to the wannstache debate… but begging the past to come back works, keep trying it. There has been a cultural and demographic shift for athletics in America, end of conversation

DeVanzo, your posts:

“and the only reason Gottfried didnt succeed was because Posvar increased academic requirements to athletes like a complete moron and nearly destroyed Pitt football.”

“i have no idea what relevance that has to the wannstache debate”

“end of conversation”

yea… it was grandfathered out… gottfried fought it… same reason Holtz fought with ND officials… it wont work in the post 1960s world and Pitt doesnt employ it anymore

i was explaining why Pitt football was mired in mediocrity starting with the poor hiring choice of Foge Fazio

ugh

Regarding the tempo issue, why don’t the moron coaches just call a freaking timeout? It’s the first half, you can’t take it with you. Just call a damn time-out, get the kids a rest, and dial up a play. These guys are so stupid that it makes me want to hit somebody.

My recollection of why Gottfried was fired is a little different than, they increased academic requirements at Pitt. I understood, Mister Mike was caught boffing a cheerleader and was fired almost immediately, for he wasn’t even allowed to coach the John Hancock Bowl for which he had connections with the Bowl selection committee for Pitt to obtain the bowl bid. And that also would explain why Mister Mike NEVER coached another college game in his life AFTER this infamous deed.
Foge was a good choice, the 1982 Pitt team had plenty of problems other than Foge, with the most being Marino’s off field activities(among others), which is why he was drafted next to last in the 1rst round of that years NFL draft after 5 other QB’s were chosen in the 1rst round. Among them some real stiffs. Did you say schooled ?

Also for those of you whining about the play calling of Pitt during the last 2 series Pitt had the ball, specifically running Dion on 1rst & 2nd down on the first series. Lay the conservative play calling on the OC, who makes the calls. Not to make an excuse for Cig, but I’m thinking they thought with like almost 5 minutes left (4:45) they could run the ball down the field ala what they did to UNC in the final minutes of the Bowl game. Since the drive started at our 10 yard line, maybe also Cig didn’t feel comfortable coming out firing with Sonny throwing the ball around. Also the difference between Pitt and UC the last 2 years, was they had Tony Pike and we didn’t. Before getting hurt last year, Pike’s name was being bandied about for the Heisman trophy and even though he’s injury prone he still got drafted in the 6th round by the NFL. Stull as we know was not drafted by anyone. As I’ve wrote before, Quarterback is the most important position on the field, you can only go so far with mediocre to below average QB play. We have have witnessed that and are currently witnessing it.

I too recall that Gottfried’s issues were off field, though I don’t specifically recall what. There was a new Dean at the CAS at Pitt, and she was trying to do something that would have affected the athletes, but I don’t think Gottfried was the only coach complaining, nor do I recall that his dismissal was stated to be related to that. Gottfried was a pretty decent coach. I have a different recollection about Foge, however, which is not quite as positive.

Does the $4.2 million buyout number referenced above a NPV? Because at $1.4M a year, I come up with $5.6M – 4 more years to run, through 2014. By that time, we will be lucky if we get an invitation to join the WPIAL.

PO’d Panther: I was using the figure from Reed’s post in the previous thread. It assumed a buyout after the 2011 season, perhaps because it will take at least another bad year for any real movement to fire Wanny and buy out his contract. Is that correct, Reed?

So, your figure is probably correct – without any of us knowing the intricacies of his contract – and makes it even more unlikely that he’ll be dismissed after this season.

Two other unknowns are: 1) I recall him saying he would coach as long as he was enjoying it. He can’t be enjoying this season so far, but he could be enjoying the challenge of turning it around. 2) How badly did the Orion Bank debacle hurt his finances? He might need and demand the full $5.6 million, he might be desperate enough to settle for less, or he might be just fine due to other successful investments. Only Wanny knows the answers.

Tampa T – I could not find Reed’s post, so you are probably right. A termination in 2011 would be more likely, and $4.2M would be the buyout. Unless there is something else in Wannstedt’s contract we don’t know about.

I think what Wanny meant by “enjoying it” is getting paid millions for doing a lousy job. I can relate – I have longed for such a position all my life.

Guys – no inside info, I was using public figures for my figuring. But the real question remains is this has PITT ever bought out a coaches’ contract with multiple years, and multiple millions of dollars, remaining?

It’s one thing to look at this as a fan and think “Well, it is logical and best for the program”… it is a whole other world trying to convince a Board of Trustees who are still grappling with a huge loss of endowment funds due to the recession.

Sorry, but I just don’t see PITT football being that important to the University as a whole to where they would throw money away like that.