Last week Coach Wannstedt tried to downplay concern with Jon Baldwin and how often he sees passes thrown his way.
“It’s interesting because if you look at some of the numbers, you wonder where’s Jon Baldwin? Then you think that we have to get the ball to Jon (Baldwin) more, and we know that. But the actuality is that he didn’t have a touchdown at this point last year, now he already has two. He has the same amount of catches now, and last year he had 220 yards. This year he has 197 yards, so his yardage is about the same in the first three games. You look at that, and yes we have to get him the ball more, but I think it’s more execution right now.”
Which would suggest that after the FIU game when Baldwin had only 2 catches for 14 yards that there might be a slight re-evaluation about things.
“For us, trying to take our offense to another level, which we need to, Jon Baldwin needs to get his hands on the football. He had probably as good a week of practice last week since he’s been here from an execution standpoint.
“We had three plays that we felt were touchdown plays for him on Saturday. One we step offside, one we get pressure in our face and we can’t get the ball to him and the third one they rolled the coverage on us and ran in circles. One was the coverage, one was a blitz-pressure that took us out of it and the third one we jump offside and move the ball back and have to change the play. That was just three plays that we thought were perfect setups that could have been touchdowns, and we don’t get a chance
“Credit to the defense for always coming up with ways to try and stop him. We can pretty much look ahead and anticipate what we’ll see coverage-wise versus Mike Shanahan, Mike Cruz and our other receivers, but every week we kind of see new wrinkles for Jon (Baldwin). It may be one guy pressing him, another guy on top of him, one guy inside or one guy playing outside coverage. They’re always going to come up with a different look. We have a few offensive linemen, a new quarterback, so we’re trying to progress, but at the same time be smart. It’s been a challenge.”
For those scoring at home that is an acknowledgment that yes they do need to get the ball to Baldwin more. The failures of such were blamed on: execution twice and better defensive game-planning by FIU.
In fact, Coach Wannstedt seems to be blaming much of the problem on the superior defensive minds of Utah, Miami, New Hampshire and FIU. And the other part is typical Wannstedt mind-set. Fear of mistakes, i.e., turnovers. Taking shots with Baldwin requires throwing the ball and potentially into coverage.
One of the things we have seen Pitt do to try and get Baldwin the ball more is have him run shorter routes. Rather than medium to deep patterns that would require the O-line to actually hold together for more than 2 Mississippis, Baldwin is definitely going shallower.
What we aren’t seeing is anything approaching a crossing pattern or going near the middle of the field. Almost all of his patterns are along the sidelines. It makes him easier to cover, and more predictable. If Coach Wannstedt wants to counter all those tricky defensive coverages being thrown at Baldwin, it would help to change up his patterns.
Baldwin continues to say the right things and do nothing publicly to hurt the team.
“It’s just a matter of time,” Baldwin said. “The run game is doing pretty good, and I’m pretty sure coach (offensive coordinator Frank) Cignetti will think of different ways to get me the ball.”
Baldwin, a 1,100-yard receiver last year, has only 15 receptions for 211 yards and two touchdowns. He ranks 10th in the Big East in receiving yards per game (52.8).
“I’ve just got to keep going out there and try to make plays,” Baldwin said. “Sometimes, I’m not going to be able to make the play, but the majority of the time I’m going to make the play. That’s basically all I can say about that.”
The one concern that I have had in the non-use of Baldwin is that he is not even running routes at times. In the two home games I attended I have definitely seen later in the game, Baldwin not finish routes. It hasn’t happened often but there have been moments where he didn’t bother trying to get off the line or only ran a few strides before stopping. In those instances, they were running plays away from his side of the field. Baldwin has disagreed with any questions that suggest he has dogged any plays.
While Paul Zeise of the P-G has been of the opinion that the unnoticed reason is that without Dorin Dickerson for teams to be concerned, the defenses are keying more on Baldwin in the passing game. Eh, not so sure. Shanahan is being given opportunities inside more. It really seems more that Baldwin has been limited by being outside on most pass plays. A general lack of creativity in calling his routes.
Cigs has pretty much already came out and said Sunseri doesn’t see the field well. (and of course he knows more than that) And I wouldn’t read anything into the 13 of 14 against FIU in the 2nd half, as Pitt still only lead 16-10 going into the 4rth Q and FIU stacked the box with 8 in a futile effort to stop Ray from torching them. In this case the running of Graham opened up the pass which is the way it’s going to have to happen.
@wbb, you are correct, Dickerson did fade in the latter part of the season against the better teams and he did have the drops as well. He dropped several, early in the WVU game and they never went back to him. I was hoping that Todd Thomas was going to used as an H-Back similar to Dickerson, but I guess they’re going to redshirt him. Saddler was also effective as a slot receiver before getting hurt last year and he hasn’t been used much as a receiver at all, maybe Santino can’t see him (really) either.
We shall see how this folds out this week against a very mediocre ND team, with wins over lowly Purdue and a below average BC team. But anytime you can beat ND that’s a good thing.
This offensive play calling perplexes me and I can’t understand it. It reminds me of a bird flying into a glass window repeatedly. It keeps thinking its going to just go through but there is a huge barrier, a big piece of glass that smacks it in the face each time it tries.
When a QB is shaky and inexperienced, and frankly not playing well, he will default to the familiar and safe options – which for Sunseri has become Shanahan and more lately Devin Street.
I also think Baldwin has always had the touch of Prima Donna about him and no wonder really – for two+ years he’s had people slobbering all over him telling him how great he is and how high in the draft he’s going to go… well, reality rears its ugly head sometimes.
It is the 360 degrees of the player that gets you into the first round – either that of an astounding talent that can’t be ignored – like on the level of Randy Moss.
Baldwin absolutely does not have that high level of pure WR talent… he has all the ‘measurables’ in the world but not receiving talent. He barely cracked the Top 20 in any receiving categories last year and is virtually non-existent this season… and as long as Street keeps developing and Shanahan keeps playing at high levels Baldwin will stay just about where he is right now.
He’ll get his catches, some good yards in a few games and a highlight film or two but overall he’ll not reach the superstar level in production, and maybe not even match what he produced last year.
This is 100% on Sunseri. This should read, has Baldwin quit on Sunseri, not is Baldwin lazy. He proved himself last year. Only other question is does he suck just because he changed his name from Jonathan to “Jon” because he didn’t like that there were fake facebook and twitter pages with his name on it
Baldin is a first round draft pick, he has expectations for the talent around him. He is probably frustrated with the “JV” level of talent at quarterback and play calling. Seriously, Tino Sunseri is an average high school WPIAL qb with a candy arm and stands 5’9″. Its literally laughable how little talent he has. He cant see the field, hes nervous in the pocket, he guides his passes when hes on the move, he throws with zero confidence under pressure, and cant read any coverage. Im sure Baldwin is frustrated having to run 60 routes and seeing 3 soft lobs thrown his way all game. Looks like Tino/Wanny ruining Baldwin and will dry up the receiving recruits in no time
Im sorry its really quite easy to understand why… the game is incredibly slow up here. Please go watch a 2a South Florida/Cali/Texas game then watch a Central/Gateway game and tell me which game was faster and involved more size/speed/athleticism. He is used to throwing on slow/undersized cbs and dbs in the WPIAL. Miami showed what happens when he plays a real team. And if he cant play with Miami he shouldnt even be recruited by Pitt
Rod Rutherford
Tyler Palko
Kevan Smith
Bill Stull
and dont tell me about Bill Stull… Bostick would have had better numbers than him last year with that line and Baldwin. All you ever need to look at to compare the two is the Sun Bowl. Bostick did more in one drive than Stull did all game (after the faked injury)
3 stars, average
6’2″???
im a hair under 6′ and he was shorter than me… he isnt 200 either hes maybe 185
he doesnt have the frame/physical ability to play division one qb.
Rutherford and Palko were pretty good QB’s.
Ya, the WPIAL isn’t what it used to be especially when compared with CA,TX, FL, but there are still good players to be had here. Don’t think Tino is necessarily one of them. This staff has done a poor job with the QB position to date.
More likely it is Cook behind a picture like that. I am guessing that DW and others in the Pitt AD’s office have let Cook know just what they think of his “journalism”. Really, the guy is a first rate crap stirer…My favorite so far this year was one of his last articles on Pitt which basically said (and I’ve seen it repeated on posts here): Pitt sucks, the BE sucks, and even if Pitt wins the BE, so what because the BE sucks. So basically, there is nothing Pitt can do that’s right. I guess it does not matter that Cinci gave Oklahoma a better game than Texas did, really out played them, but beat themselves. Same goes for WVU at LSU. This is a down year for the BE, but it is no where near as far down as Cook and some posters here would have you believe.
(except Wanny) could see how much more command of the offense, more field presence and crisper throws Bostick made against Miami than Sunseri. It wasn’t even close. Too bad Pat doesn’t have Marino as a last name, Tino would be playing safety (3rd string). Or playing at IUP or Edinboro.
Seems to be Palko vs. Flacco all over again, but if Palko curesed less and was afraid to be in the pocket or throw to Greg Lee. It’s a damn shame we will have to wait until we are disqualified from the BCS before we see a change.
Bostick isn’t some savior. How long has he been at Pitt, 4 years? I’m pretty sure the coaches are well aware of his ability. He just doesn’t have the arm strength. Do you honestly think Frankie Cigs or Wanny cares what the QB’s last name is? They want to win. PERIOD. And Bostick’s will to win is SO overrated. Just look at his stats. Bostick’s will to win was his ability to hand off to Shady. They won those games in spite of Bostick.
As for Bostick in big games, his numbers were horrible. What was it, 3 or 4 fades to Baldwin in the back of the endzone before he connected against ND? I think Pat’s play in those games kept WVU and ND in the game.
Rutherford sucked? Are you kidding me?
Stats don’t lie:
37 TD passes (tied Marino’s record), nearly 3700 yards, a 157.4 passer rating.
I didn’t realize Larry Fitz had 3000 receiving yards and 30+ touchdowns that year. And look Larry Fitz isn’t doing anything this year with a bad QB in the NFL. One WR doesn’t get you those stats.
And just because Flacco is good in the NFL doesn’t mean he would have been good at Pitt. The lines at Pitt weren’t that good and Palko had to run around and take a beating. So to base what a QB does in the NFL is pretty irrelevant to what he would have done at Pitt. I mean Tommy Frazier was awesome at Nebraska but did nothing in the NFL does that mean he was the wrong starter at Nebraska? No.
Senior year stats of Flacco and Palko:
Flacco: 4,263 yards, 23 TDs, 5 INT, 144.9 passer rating, 63.5 completion %, 521 attempts.
Palko: 2,871 yards, 25 TDs, 9 INT, 163.2 passer rating, 68.3 completion %, 322 attempts
Oh Flacco clearly was the better college QB????? He was playing against worst competition, lower passer rating, was less accurate, and threw for less TDs with 200 more attempts.
The problem with the Flacco-Palko debate is that it ignores much of reality. Palko was already the established starter coming off a great season. Palko was second-team All Big East QB and the team MVP, having thrown for over 3000 yards and 24 TDs.
Even with a change in head coaches, there was no QB competition in 2005. Only Flacco seemed to believe that, which led to his late decision to transfer in 2005 — and Coach Wannstedt’s subsequent petulant decision not to release him from his scholarship until December of that year.
Flacco had never even been in contention for the starting job when Palko was given the starting nod by Walt Harris. It was Luke Getsy who also transferred after losing the spot.
There was nothing to do with Palko being local and his father as a coach. Flacco was a redshirt sophomore when he transferred — at the end of camp in 2005. No one was predicting greatness for him then. He had been a lightly recruited 3-star QB from Jersey. The only teeth gnashing at the time was more over the fact that Pitt no longer had any QB depth, and had to have freshman Bill Stull as the back-up.
The fact that he transferred to Delaware would be considered telling for most that other 1-A programs weren’t exactly beating down his door to transfer to their program. It is to Flacco’s credit that he believed in his ability and has become a starting NFL QB. But there was no mistake in 2005 by Pitt or Coach Wannstedt.
this is so asinine im not even going to touch it… if you think Rod Rutherford was an accurate or consistent passer you need your head examined. Go watch game film and see how many times he threw timing routes to Fitz or Kris Wilson in double coverage. So Rod got those numbers because he was a quarterback, and not because he was throwing to Fitz? Did you watch a single Pitt game during the Fitz era? Flacco is a pro type quarterback with pro strength and physical abilities, as well as 10x the downfield passer and defensive reader that Tyler Palko is. Dont do some stupid “look at Eric Crouch and Tommy Frazier and theyre not good in the NFL” childish comparison. Again, an asinine comparison. One had average ability, one had exceptional ability… and Palko couldnt throw on the run ANYWAY. Flacco has an increidbly fast release and wouldnt have needed to scramble as much as Palko who has a drop/wind up type throw.
You are correct… Palko and Rutherford were great!
Flacco wouldnt have done as well at Pitt!! (good thing we tested that theory)
Fitz didnt help inflate Rod’s stats!!
any other brilliant points?
guys like you are the reason Pitt mediocrity is tolerated…
As far as Bostick, he hasn’t played (other than Miami) for 2 years as he was redshirted last year.
He was thrown to the wolves as a true freshmen by Wanny & Cavenaugh after he missed ALL of training camp. That he performed as well as he did on a very bad team was a credit to him. And regardless of what he did or didn’t do, he did quarterback PITT to our biggest victory in the last 20 years, beating #2 WVU 13-9 and keeping them OUT of the National Championship game. Clearly he has to better NOW than he was 3 years ago, I would think any rational person would agree with that. And yes it not’s what you know (or do) in most cases, it’s WHO you know. And that sucks !
and for some reason people compare that season under my 2nd favorite pitt qb ever but least favorite o-coordinator ever to what he can do now. Somehow these same bostick-doubters forget how miserable Bill Stull was under said national champ winning qb
I’m not making excuses, I’m saying your arguments are baseless. But I guess your subjective memories are better than stats. I never claimed Rutherford was an accurate passer his completion percentage of about 59% isn’t great. But my point was that you said Rutherford sucked, which wasn’t even close to the case. You can’t suck and have those stats.
So Flacco was so much more talented that his stats were basically worse than Palko’s? All that extra talent really helped out Flacco in college.
There are tons of examples of good college QBs who never played in the NFL besides my childish comparisons. And there are examples of guys who never played in college who are awesome in the NFL. So you can’t just say Flacco is in the NFL so he should have started over Palko.
While I liked Rod Ruth, he had a scatter gun arm and clearly benefited enormously of having the greatest college receiver EVER (and future NFL Hall of Famer) Larry Fitz,(dah) as well as an extremely good TE, HB in Kris Wilson, who was a high draft pick as well and is still playing in the NFL. If I was Bostick and I didn’t start at QB again this year, I would transfer ala Flacco and see what happens. He’s already graduated in 3 years so he’s already got his Pitt degree. Smart kid, both on & off the field.
Chas I have great respect for your blog and your knowledge of Pitt… but if you went to practice those years it was blatantly obvious who was the most talented qb… POLITICS kept Palko in as the starter. Many things including the West A situation (strained relationship with non-usage of Dickerson already and was being used by Bradley to recruit Western Pa players… King??) as well as the fact that he was already the starter kept him there… not talent. It should be a meritocracy i dont care who started the year before… Tebow and Chris Leak?? Casey Dick and Mitch Mustain?? There are countless more examples of established starters losing their jobs to better players that arrive… for some reason Pitt has to adhere to this dumb rule??
Also Black Magic… I have a minor in statistics and actually detest when sports fans try to use them to justify their poorly articulated and crafted theories…
you are making two mistakes:
1. Heteroscedasticity – This is especially true with your comparison of Flacco and Palko’s stats… The stats prove your theory, but the stats are not the correct ones to use in that case (null hypothesis irrelevance)
2. Type 1 Error – you are using stats to justify something which isnt correctly measured using these stats
You are correct. I was never at practice. All practice reports never even mentioned Flacco as a possible usurper in 2005. So I suppose you can make the claims — but there’s nothing but your assertions at this time.
Also in 2005, Dorin Dickerson had not become a Pitt Panther. He committed that year, but it wasn’t until 2006 that he was a freshman. So please don’t travel that path to make your case.
2005, was Coach Wannstedt’s first year in charge and he had plenty of good will locally with HS Coaches from simply not being Harris. There was such excitement for Wannstedt and recruiting was so strong that year.
Look I know there’s a great love of WPIAL/crony conspiracies, but I generally follow Occam’s Razor when it comes to these sort of things. Wannstedt is well known for preferring experience and upper-classmen/veterans. Generally he wants it mistake free which favors highly conservative, low-risk approaches. That low-risk approach favors QBs that can be game managers and defenses that don’t blitz as much.
He was 2 for 3 for 37 yards. What don’t you understand. AGAIN THE CBS ANNOUNCERS COMMENTED ON HOW MUCH MORE ZIP BOSTICK’S PASSES HAD. WHAT DON’T YOU UNDERSTAND? Why did Wanny & crew wait until only 55 seconds remained before switching QB’s on a more than breezy day when Stull CLEARLY HAD NOTHING, his arm was exposed AND GAVE PITT a much less chance to win?? Bostick is better than Sunseri, was much more recruited than Sunseri coming out of HS (that wasn’t even close), and POLITICS is playing the biggest part in this. What are you people… that young, dense or both.
Let’s hope our streak against ND continues.
Hail to Pitt !
Bostick should get the chance to play at ND if Tino falters (and he will)…Tino doesn’t have it.
Give Bostick a chance…how much worse can he be??
however, these are mostly rants and are not relevant
what is relevant is the program is not where Stache said it would be when he was hired. We sat through the losing years, letting him put in his recruits and system. The line is incredibly weak… somehow he hasnt recruited o-line or quarterback any better than Harris. We have regressed at certain positions (most notably WPIAL lb’s over Florida lb’s). The game plans have been horrendous for 6 straight years. 2010 was a failure, not a success. That team had the talent to go 12-0 in the easiest major conference schedule I have ever seen. They were, in fact, favored every single game. Somehow losing 3 games you are favored to win is a success. The play calling has somehow regressed back to Cavanaugh simplicity/stupidity (not sure who is at fault there). We have a qb under center who had the physical prowess of a kicker and the mental acuity of a deer in the headlights.
And to top it off… we played the first two top 15 quality non-conference opponents of the Wannstache era… and what happened? For the better part of the Utah game and the entire Miami game it was evident… the experiment has failed. Next coach please
1) DW would have been insane to sit down Palko after that SO season he had. There isn’t a comparison between the “no competition” aspect of the QB battle when looking at Palko/Flacco and Sunseri/Bostick because Palko was already an established starter. Sunseri was not – there was a starting vacancy and there should have been an honest competition which would have benefited everyone involved. Taking 100% of those 1st team snaps obviously didn’t give Sunseri that much more of a boost then his having to look over his shoulder to beat out the competition would have.
2) It’s crazy to say Rutherford and Palko were not good college QBs, they were. But maybe not as good as PITT fans think they were – we have a habit of over-inflating how well someone plays. What they did in the NFL means nothing when discussing how they played in college.
2) Jump to 2010: What I find troublesome is that DW is still adhering to Sunseri getting 100% of the work – even in the waning moments of a 4th quarter blowout against FIU last week. The only time we have seen Bostick play has been when Sunseri was injured (according to DW) and to me that means the HC isn’t even contemplating the possibility that a QB change may be needed ahead. There would have been no harm in having Bostick take the last couple series last week where at the very least it would have sent a message to the offense that he had the support of the staff if needed to be called on to replace Sunseri
This is an example of DW’s stubbornness in the extreme IMO – it is almost like he formulated this long term plan back in August of 2009 and didn’t take into account even the possibility that it could fail.
I think the debate proves that we have never had more than an adequate Q-B for many years. Hopefully one of the two freshman will change this, but will they get a chance next year?
Why is Lewis named the starter. Hasn’t Graham earned it on the field.
I have been a strong Wanny supporter, but no more.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t he also have an opportunity to take the very same head coaching position that Wannstedt now holds?
And if he had that much pull, why wasn’t a move made last year when more than half the fan base was crying for Tino Time every time Stull threw an incomplete pass?
And surely Sal is smart enough to know that keeping his strapping young lad in there despite his struggles isn’t exactly doing wonders for his scouting reports.
Or maybe I’m just “dense”. *rolls eyes*
I was being sarcastic on Palko. I said if he was afraid to throw to Greg Lee, who he wasn’t afraid to throw to which was why he had good numbers while he worked it out on his head.
Also, With Flacco, I was just referring to a guy not getting a chance to compete, not saying Palko was bad or that Bostick will someday be an NFL QB
1) Sal Sunseri has been a college coach for several decades now. Currently he is Nick Saban’s top Asst Coach. His title is Asst. Head Coach at Alabama. One day soon Sal will be a College Head Football Coach, maybe even here at Pitt. He will have a nice resume.
2) There is something known as the ‘Coaching Fraternity’ (of which an old schooler like Wanny who has been coaching for 35 years would be very steeped in)
3) Son’s of said coaches are ‘taken care of’ by other coaches regardless of what college they attend.
4) Santino Sunseri is also a Legacy at Pitt since he father (Sal) played starting LB at Pitt during the last ‘Glory Years’ of the early 80’s.
5) Legacy’s get preferential treatment, whether it’s in Medical School, Dental School, Business School OR IN SPORTS. And in the Corporate World after that.
6) When you combine the 2 factors here, one of being a Legacy at Pitt and the other of having a father in the college coaching fraternity, obviously those create a powerful force. Which we are witnessing being played out in front of our very eyes.
Now the question is, just how dense are you?
Rolls eyes
I played football for eight years. I’ve working my tenth consecutive year in corporate America. Guys I played high school football with have started at numerous Division I-A programs, including Pitt, Penn State, Syracuse and Notre Dame. A close friend who I see almost every day also has direct familial ties to this coaching staff at Pitt. I’ve been well aware of the politics that can and do exist in each facet of those.
But to this extent? Really?
Look, if you really think Wannstedt would risk sabotaging not just his job but those of his assistant coaches as well as the integrity of this season to blindly continue playing a kid who may not be equipped to handle it right now all because the kid is a legacy, that’s your prerogative.
I’ll take it a step further. It’s been well-publicized how much Wannstedt loves this program and how much he loves the kids he brings into this program. His players seem to love playing for him.
So if you think Wannstedt would be willing to sabotage those relationships that he forged with these kids and come off as a fraud in regards to the promises he’s made to them and their families, all to go to these lengths to continue to blindly play one kid for the reasons you mentioned, that’s also your prerogative.
Forgive me if I choose to not indulge something like that. I come here to read about and discuss Pitt football with people who are also interested in doing the same. I don’t come here to see other posters getting talked down to like we’re 10 years old by someone who’s spent this entire thread alternating between entertaining a conspiracy theory and calling out those who choose not to play along as “dense”.
In fact, the “dense” name-calling looks even more ridiculous coming from someone who is still struggling with basic plural vs. possessive grammar contexts that most kids should learn by 6th grade.
(Hint: “Legacies”, not “legacy’s”. “Sons”, not “Son’s”. You’re welcome.)
My apologies to the rest of you and to you, Chaz, for that previous post. This is a great board full of solid discussion and information, and by posting something like that above, it doesn’t really add to it.
Again, my apologies.
If Blwin started slow last year, then maybe Zeise had a point since Dickerson started fast out of the box. It seemed that Dorin faded rowards the end especially the last 4 games starting with ND while Baldwin picked it up