The team obviously, but also for us. I took the weekend off in part because of frustration. I didn’t want to post stuff that was too reactionary and without any real reflection. Unfortunately, that didn’t seem to help.
There’s no excuse for the way Pitt played — on offense. The defense really was valiant considering how long they were on the field and the injuries — Romeus, DeCicco, Mason, and even Gary getting hobbled.
The offense had no such excuse. Like everyone else, I keep coming back to the offensive line, the gameplan and QB.
Working backwards, I am not yet in favor of benching Sunseri. He has not impressed, but I just don’t believe in benching the starting QB this quickly. Bostick provided a spark, but that could have come as much from the change in offensive approach — downfield passing, no huddle, shotgun — as much as the change in QB.
Like a number of fans there is some frustration dating back to the spring with Sunseri. It was clear that he was being given the starting job despite baldface lies by Coach Wannstedt that there would be and was a competition for the starting spot. Never quite understood why Wannstedt felt he had to make that claim and undermine his own credibility, but that is a side issue that unfortunately colors the present discussion.
The biggest issue with Sunseri to me is that he has really lacked accuracy. Given his size issues and the O-line, I expected to see Sunseri roll out more to pass. Move around and get better vision of the passing lanes. That hasn’t worked out, because when he does that he rarely gets his feet planted well to make the good throw. That forces the offense to keep him in the pocket. Where the O-line has to hold and Sunseri has to try and throw over the line.
The gameplan and offensive line almost go hand-in-hand. We’ve all come to grips (I hope) with the fact that Coach Wannstedt believes to the point of insanity in running the ball. The problem is his desire to run the ball into the weakest point of the line.
Even before the season started, Coach Wannstedt acknowledged that that middle part of the line was going to be a work in progress and would not be as good to start the season. Unlike Tino Sunseri, he has not gameplanned to make their adjustment easier.
He has continually had the offense run the ball straight up the middle. Rather than make use of the better and more experienced members of the O-line that are on the outside, the desire seems to be to have fullback Henry Hynoski crash in there to try and force the hole open for Dion Lewis.
The excuse to not run the ball outside more — despite seeing a lot more success on those carries seems to be that the tight ends aren’t as good at blocking. That’s crap. No, no one is as good at it as Byham, but Dickerson was no better than Cruz is. Plus, running to space gives Lewis or Graham more room to make a cut. Yet it rarely happens, and with the penetration up the middle, there isn’t even a chance for Lewis to bounce it outside.
As much as I’ve thought Baldwin has allowed himself to be taken out of plays this year, the play calling has done a lot more of that. Continually having Baldwin line-up on the left side while having almost all of Sunseri’s throws be to the right, makes Baldwin nothing more than a decoy.
Then there is the O-line. Some are optimistic about the O-line next year with what will be redshirt freshmen like Brandon Sacco, Matt Rotheram, and Shane Johnson. Great, that might replace Jason Pinkston, Alex Karabin and the Gaskins/Turnley combo. But there is still no depth beyond Jake Lippert and the question of whether Arthur Doakes (who will be a medical redshirt freshman next year) develop.
The absolute wafer-thin state of the O-line is the biggest disappointment in the Dave Wannstedt era. This is what even the biggest Walt Harris supporters admitted was a huge issue in the final years. A lack of depth and overall quality for the O-line. Six years in, and it is hard to see much of a change to that situation.
All the quality backs, wide receivers and even a couple QBs that many are optimistic about in the future will amount to little without the O-line.
Most people have been patient with Coach Wannstedt. They have accepted the argument that Pitt needed to be rebuilt after Harris, because the recruiting had tailed off and the style of play was going to be a huge shift — requiring different players.
The problem is that Pitt under Wannstedt doesn’t seem to be making the progress promised and expected. Like other former NFL coaches of recent vintage — not named Pete Carroll — there seems to be a plateau of blandness. Chan Gailey at GT, Mike Sherman at Texas A&M, Charlie Weis at ND and Al Groh at Virginia.
Groh disturbingly seems like an apt comparison. Nine years at Virginia. 5 winning seasons 4 losing years. Early excitement at an alum with NFL history coming home, getting the good recruits. Yet, ultimately a gravitational pull towards slightly over .500. Flashes, moments, but never completely put together. A slow build of frustration of having the visible talent yet not achieving over the course of an entire season. Fanbase gets visibly frustrated and increasingly tired of the excuses and underachieving. Openly turning on the coach. Actually, that kind of also describes Wannstedt’s tenures in the NFL as a head coach.
The season isn’t over. Pitt conceivably still win the Big East. I mean, hell, it isn’t like anyone else in the conference is looking that good. Of course that only makes things worse in a way. If Pitt — even with their problems — can’t win the conference this year, then when?
I did not watch the game over again, but something else that I felt like I kept seeing on replays was this: Sunseri under pressure and no receivers taking shorter routes, especially over the middle, to be potential targets. So Sunseri is getting pressure and every receiver is still running down field, back to the ball, just trying to complete their routes. I saw this on multiple occasions on replays, and not just on 3rd and long. So even in his progressions, if there is pressure, there are no available options. Or maybe there were and Sunseri just doesn’t see them or is hesitant to make the throw (which also seems to be the case, b/c remember DW’s mantra, “don’t make a mistake”). Again, not having gone back and watched the game — something you seriously couldn’t pay me to do — perhaps I’m off base here, but it certainly seemed like the case to me.
Also heard DW talk about the need “for consistency” in the passing game. He specifically said “I don’t want to say the need to ‘make plays,’ but to have consistency in the passing game.” That’s a messed-up mindset and I think it’s gotten into Sunseri’s head.
Pitt won’t fire him now but he should consider retiring. If he still doesn’t see the light then his wife or one of his friends should have a little talk with him.
Basically said about coaching change to “give it a rest, not gonna happen.”
His points are sound and I don’t disagree with his position. He is right it won’t happen.
But he does state maybe if this team collapses and is 4-8 then those discussions will have merit.
Well isn’t the biggest problem about firing/hiring coaches have to do with recruitng timeframe…you lose the ones that committed to the old guy and the new guy needs to ramp up so you lose a year by waiting until December to make up your mind.
I am rooting for Pitt…I want them to win the Big East and get a BCS bid. But let me state this if that is not possible…I don’t want an 8-4, 9-3 team going to a Car Care bowl game just to continue this damn treamill existence that has become “The Wanny Years”.
I loathe the thought of it becoming “The Wanny Decade”
DaveD
With regards to Sunseri, I have lost confidence in him. It is time to go with Bostick. He is an upperclassmen who get the rest of the team’s and Baldwin’s attention. If Baldwin does not start stepping it up, he better keep his grades up because if I was an NFL team there is no way I would waste a first round choice on him. He does not seem to have the internal drive to excel and get better. He was totally dogging it more than several times during the Miami game.
Pitt has been recruiting Pennsylvania and NJ very heavily and the talent seems to be somewhat lacking despite the number of ***’s listed in Rivals.com. The best talent is in
the deep south and our flow from below The Mason-Dixon Line has been declining.
I am having a very difficult time coming to grips with the obvious fact that Pitt has become basketball school despite the long history of football achievements. No more excuses!!
Pitt’s Jamie Dixon is a great coach, Wanny will never, ever come close to having a top notch program. After this year’s debacle our recruiting for 2012 will be an absoluite disaster.
The Big East is a dead conference!!
What dismays me is the whoosie offensive lineman Pitt fields, the middle of that offensive line is the worst I’ve seen at Pitt in the last 30 years!
Even when the 2nd coming of Majors and Pitt was losing 72-0 to Ohio St the offensive line could pick up a first down or two before punting. The offensive line at Pitt were sons of steelworkers and coal miners tough as nails this line is made up of whoosies that can’t even provide a little interference before getting the man with the ball knocked on his ass.
And to top it all off 18 recruits coming in the next class and only 1 offensive lineman. Why does a program the size of Pitt’s have to rely on a walkon at center ? That’s as bad as Walt having a center transfer in from Bucknell.
I watched Cin, WV, and Rutgers play with intensity that the Pitt team lacks.
Panthers 35 – Panthers 27
How close is this to being a house of cards?
DaveD
Mason out for the year; eligible for redshirt.
Nix to move from OT to OG, replacing Gaskins. J Gibbs to start at OT.
I’m kind of under the impression that o-line might be THE toughest position to recruit and develop. It’s relatively easy to look at a high school QB, RB or wideout and get a pretty good idea of what he may do at the next level.
O-line? Not so much. There’s no real way to statistically quantify how good a high school offensive lineman really is. Sure a kid has to have some ideal physical measurables to even be considered. But beyond that? And there’s probably no position on a high school field where there may be a greater talent disparity in terms of the matchup. A kid who fits the D-I profile in terms of size is guaranteed to line up at least a handful of times per year across a defensive tackle or end that may not even be a Division III-caliber player.
Case in point. I can recall when the WPIAL was churning out kids like Nick Marmo, Brian Borgoyn, Mark Farris…all three of them went to Penn State. All three were heralded as some of the top linemen of their recruiting classes. Borgoyn, unfortunately, washed out because of a neck injury, but I don’t recall Marmo or Farris ever really developing close to what was expected of them.
Even here, you could argue that the top two linemen Pitt’s had each of the last two seasons were Pinkston and Malecki, two kids who were recruited to Pitt as DT’s. And if you go out a little further, you could argue the next best ones were Otan and Houser – two JUCO kids.
I think this is where my issue is with the o-line. I know Wannstedt needs to have some faith in the kids he brings in out of high school, but there’s also something to be said with monitoring this depth and at least hitting JUCO to help out these experience issues.
Nothing the staff did helped Pitt stay in the game (ok defensively we pulled it together kind of after the first drive or so) in fact I would argue that the entire offensive game plan and staff took this team out of the game before it even began.
There is no doubt to me that Wanny’s biggest failing is the lack of quality o-line recruits, especially because it is so essential to the offense he likes …. but hell, no one outrecruits us on 5’8 running backs!
That being said I say this rhetorically but “why are we struggling with a slew of talented recruits we have heard about for the past four years? Our o-line should not be struggling like it is. Or secondary should not be struggling like this. And our QB should not be having the trouble he is. He might be small but they need to spread the field with the type of personnel they have on offense. Go to shotgun three and 4 wide etc. You see the great coaches adjust in games, let alone seasons based on the type of make up a team has. I’ve yet to see it from this guy since he’s been here.
I hate to say this people, and it leaves me no pleasure but I’m almost rooting against us from here on out just so DW (our Charlie Weise) can get the f**k out. This guy frustrates me to the point where I feel I loose my mind watching other college football games every week. Id rather follow a team that is a down and out like Washington State, or Baylor than to follow this. Leaving after Cam fumbled literally made me feel like I could beat the living crap out of someone. Its not worth the frustration and stress for me to watch my alma mater be lead by a pathetic fraud who doesn’t have the slightest clue. I seriously had to pray about my frustrations (not that im a minister but just believe) that Sunday. Anyone else feel me, or you still think he’s go it, cause I don’t. I sat there 5 years ago with 28,000 and thought 5 years from now this place will be filled and will be a top 15 team.
I don’t care how many freaking former pros, counselors, cops, or faith healers Wannstedt brings in to talk to the team – it is clear that this team just does not fear him. So none of that means crap.
If Nordenberg is happy with this, let him be the only one left in the stands. Wannstedt played this administration like a drum from day one, and continues to do so.
Hart, DePasqua, Fazio, Gottfried, Hackett, Majors II, Harris. And we had chances to hire Alvarezes, Pelinis, Welshes, and I am sure others along the way whom I cannot recall. But we wind up with a Wannstedt. We can’t find a Schiano or an Edsell if one hit us between the eyes. Welcome to Pitt Football hell. Been living it for all but about a dozen years since 1968.
Also, I think Baldwin has been taking far too much heat. I wouldn’t blame the kid for being frustrated as hell if he is. Each time he steps on the field he is the best athlete, yet we hide him, refuse to throw the ball up to him on fades to utilize his size and talent, and generally just act like he isn’t on the field. It’s not that he’s getting bumped, its not that he’s being lazy, its that we AREN’T TRYING TO GET HIM THE BALL NEARLY ENOUGH.
1. Offensive lineman are the toughest positions to predict and fill…when Tom Osbourne was at Nebraska, he’d bring in 3-4 O line recruits, and 8-10 O line walk-ons—-every year.–the great ones made it, the lesser ones fell by the wayside—it’s what you do to build an O-line and a program!
2. Texas lost to a weak UCLA team–and Mack Brown admitted as the Coach, it was his fault—he accepted total responibility for the loss. I think if Wanny admitted he made mistakes, I’d feel better…the first act in correcting behavior, is to admit you made a mistake. Mack took the high road—and I give him credit.
3. I do like our players, but let’s give them a chance—I think we need to be creative to find mismatches, be aggressive and exploit them. Running up the gut against eight man fronts won’t work…look to hit the slants (if Tino doesn’t have time), run sweeps/tosses, use more screens–in short, let’s play to Win, not just be in the game.
Hail to PITT!
-al-
Hail to PITT!
-al-
Pitt has had a total of 7 “Top 150” recruits since 2006. Do you know how many Alabama has had? 32. Oklahoma? 28. Michigan? 22. Miami? 32. USC? 52. Texas had more than twice as many last year (16) than we’ve the last five years combined.
I’m certainly not happy with where things stand right now, but let’s not act like we’re loaded with all these top 10 recruiting classes. We have two, maybe three 4 star quality players. Can we bring things back from fantasy land?
We are reading about dissent in the locker room this season for a reason – the ‘star’ players have inflated egos and checked out for the most part. Either they are thinking ahead to the NFL or they are carrying themselves with a sense of entitlement. Not much you can do about the first – you can bench a kid who does that but that is cutting your nose off to spite your face.
But, I’m much more concerned with the latter because it was fomented directly from DW’s asinine actions with the QB situation and played out publicly and by DW’s decision making. I will disagree somewhat with Chas here – I can’t remember DW Wannstedt ever talking about a competition at QB – he clearly stated very soon after the 2009 season ended that Sunseri was to be the starting QB and reiterated it numerous times in interviews over the ensuing months through both Spring practice and Training Camp. The essence of scholastic and college sports is competition, internal for playing time and external for wins, and DW short circuited them both.
What in the world was he thinking when he had Sunseri take EVERY single first string snap? The message he sent loud and clear was that while every other kid who wasn’t a returning starter had to bust his ass to compete for playing time… Sunseri had to do literally nothing. Forget about thinking ‘Well, if he didn’t play well during camp DW would use someone else’ because that happened and DW didn’t. In other words the fix was in as soon as Sunseri verballed to PITT.
Now, If I’m a position coach on PITT’s staff how in the world do I reconcile that with my players? These kids are not stupid and the fact that this happened at the marquis position compounded the error. This was the height of stupidity and arrogance on Wannstedt’s part and now he’s reaping what he sowed.
Secondly, having WRs ‘break off’ their routes over the middle to help when Sunseri is under pressure does nothing as he can’t throw over the middle that well and has done it very little. He has thrown the ball at the beginning of the crossing route when he can still see the receiver – once the WR gets in the middle the QB loses him in the oncoming pressure. It was a problem during camp also and that’s why those short crossing patterns are not called often.
Chris was comparing “Top 150” recruits that Pitt has landed. How many Top 150 does Stanford, Boise State, TCU, or Utah have? How many did Cinci have the past 2 years?
Some schools will always get the majority of Top 150’s, but there are lots of other teams out there competing on a very high level with either none or very few Top 150s. Those teams I mentioned above all have one thing in common: great coaching!
If Brian Kelly, Urban Meyer, or Chris Peterson coached Pitt in 2009, we would most likely have been undefeated.
Please. There was no such declaration before spring. The players themselves stated it was a competition.
Coach Wannstedt tried to pretend that when Sunseri got all snaps early, it was meaningless.
Quarterback Tino Sunseri continued to work exclusively with the first team Tuesday, while Pat Bostick worked with the second team. But Wannstedt said not to read anything into it because Tuesday was the first day in pads. “They both know the offense, and they know where to go with the ball,” Wannstedt said. “But once we start turning guys loose, they should separate themselves, as they start making plays under pressure.”
OC Frank Cignetti also made the claim, even as he tipped his hand.
“Right now, there’s competition at every position. Tino’s number one and Pat’s number two, just like Dion Lewis is number one and Ray Graham is number two but there’s great competition. There’s competition at every position,” Cignetti said Thursday.
Cignetti’s analogy is telling: there’s no uncertainty about Lewis’s role in Pitt’s offense, and now there appears to be little uncertainty at the quarterback position as well.
And finally, there is this.
link to blogs.sites.post-gazette.com
Pitt offensive coordinator Frank Cignetti told my good friend Chris Peak of the Pantherlair that Tino Sunseri was the Panthers “No. 1 quarterback.” That isn’t a surprise to anyone who has covered this team but it is a bit of a surprise that Cignetti would say that given that the coaching staff has been very sensitive about trying to keep the “competition” alive.
Coach Ditka makes a good point, that plenty of successful programs don’t have the most big-time recruits. In fact, those “stars” whether it be three or four are often determined by who is recruiting the kid in the first place.
The bottom line is I don’t think people are drinking the koolaid, this team has no business being 1-2 and getting embarrassed against Miami with the talent that they have.
2. I have season tickets to both basketball and football.
3. I travel to MANY away football games.
4. I always expect Pitt to win.
But people love ignoring facts on here. Of course if you are negative you are realistic, but if you have some sort of optimism you are drinking related to someone on the team. Awesome logic.
There seems to be the idea that Pitt was never in the game against Miami. First the score was 10-0 at the half with a missed FG. I never knew that being down only 10 is a blow out. Second Pitt had some momentum at the beginning of the 4th before Cam fumbled that punt. It’s not me having my head in the sand it’s looking at the facts objectively. If you are down 14 with the ball after moving the ball the previous possession at midfield and a quarter to go, that is not being blown out.
And I read stuff about how Wanny doesn’t make adjustments. If he’s terrible with adjustments, how does Pitt come back to tie Utah? Or how does Pitt rally to beat Uconn last year?
And comments like he’s a pathetic fraud and rooting against the team. Why even post on here? And who are you going to replace Wanny with? Wanny might lose some close games but he still wins. The past 2 seasons were successful overall. All I see is fire Wanny but no discussion of viable replacements. IF Urban Meyer coached Pitt then they would be undefeated? Nice useful thing to say. I mean if Pitt had Tom Brady at QB and Revis is the secondary Pitt would have won the nationally championship last year. Besides, Urban Meyer can get away with more mistakes because he always has more talent than the other team. Pitt could easily end up dreadful like L-Ville or Syracuse with a bad hire.
People complain about wanting a top 15 team, if Pitt had went out and played 3 scrubs, guess what Pitt would be ranked top 10? And the very same people complaining about wanting a top 10 team would be complaining about Pitt no playing anyone good at home nonconference and why even go to the games.
And now it seems obvious to every single Pitt fan that Sunseri is a failure and Bostick was the clear choice. I’m pretty sure most Pitt fans were calling for Sunseri to start last year. Sunseri still has only 3 starts at QB. He’s bound to struggle. I think you need to give him a bit more time with an improved offensive line before jumping to judgment.
But oh wait, I forgot Pitt sucks…
What about Brian Kelly, you really think Cinci was more talented and deep than Pitt the past 2 years???
THIS IS YEAR 6!!!! When do the excuses end??? Thursday was completely unacceptable and what does Wanny do? blames the players. How about stepping up like a man (a’la Mack Brown) and accepting responsibility and how about apologizing to all of us that wasted our time and money watching that disaster. I took 2 days off work, spent $200 on tickets, drove 300 miles one way, put up with the endless construction barrel traffic through Pittsburgh all to watch that poorly coached high school performance? Thank God I decided not to renew my season tickets this year. That was enough torture to last until next seasons debacle.
What a flip flop from last year…..Last year going into the season I thought we’d be 4-8 and we went 10-3, this year going into the season I thought we’d be 10-2 and we might go 4-8, lol gotta love college football.
I guess my issue with Wanny goes back to last year and the Stull QB situation, and the constant knock on the guy since his days in Chiacgo…he cannot develop a QB! If Wanny truly believed that Tino was the heir apparent, and he was an equivalent “talent” level with Stull, then WHY WASN’T TINO STARTING LAST YEAR? Tino should have been starting last year to prepare him for this year.
Behind a strong O-line, and low expectations (remember Dion was an unknown), Tino would have been prepared (by the end of the year) to hand a less developed line and a stronger schedule.
My big problem, as I mention, is the development at the QB position. Bottom line, you win football games with QBs.
Wanny (and Cav) ruined Palko.
Wanny (and Cav) ruined Bostick (a top prospect in HS)
Wanny (and Cig) lived in spite of Stull’s inadequecies.
Wanny (and Cig) are going to ruin Sunseri
Is Myers and Gonzalez next?
I don’t think Sunseri can see over the collapsing front of the O-line to throw over the middle.
Top 25 BCS Cupcakes
Alabama 3 1
Ohio St 1 3
Boise St 2 1
Oregon 2 2
TCU 2 2
Nebraska 1 3
Florida 3 1
Oklahoma 3 1 Air Force
Stanford 3 1
Auburn 3 1
Wisconsin 1 3
LSU 4 0
Utah 1 3
Arizona 2 2
Arkansas 2 2
Miami 2 1
Iowa 2 2
USC 3 1
Michigan 2 2 Notre Dame
S. Caro 2 2
Texas 2 2
PSU 1 3
NC St 2 2
Mich St. 1 3 Notre Dame
Nevada 2 2 Brigham Young
BIG LEAST
Cincin 3 1 Fresno St.
UCONN 1 3
Louisville 2 2
PITT 2 1 UTAH
Rutgers 1 2
USF 1 2
Syracuse 1 3
WVU 2 2
Couple side notes, no, not bored, off work, done with the work around the farm, just relaxing with some ice cold Anchor Steams!!! Remember, this has nothing to do with the teams records, most are undefeated or lower top 25 one loss, this is just scheduling between BCS and cupcakes. As you can see, everyone is in the same exact boat.
So, allthough, it may sound tough to us, UTAH and Miami is no tougher than anyone else in the top 25. Just about every school you pick, you can look and their schedule and say, “look who we played”. Ya, Nebraska, Wisconsin and Penn St. have only played one team, but, looking at past schedules, they have all had years where they did a 2 and 2. ………..
xBlackMagicx I am in no way beating up on you, just killing some time,, and allthough some have posted specific things, most of what I’ve seen have said, we all like Wanny, we wanted him to succeed, but, man, it’s 6 years, we look like a high school program. As far as QB’s, neither one is very good, I don’t prefer either or, I’d like to know why we’re in such a predicament?? Many feel that neither one is a Div 1 qb. I hope Sunseri works out down the road, not talking about then, talking about now. Someone should have been groomed, or we should have had a top prospect that can come in and play, like the other teams do. “not Sunseri’s fault”, “it’s the O line”, ok, I’ll go with that, whose fault is it after 6 years our o line is in a shambles?? Come on xBlackx, you had to have watched some college ball on Saurday, you didn’t see almost all of teams on the tube looked like they were at least playing college ball, compared to the fog that Pitt looked like. Love your optimism, I respect your opinion, but, a lot of us are not being negative, we love Pitt like you do, we’re just saying what we’re seeing.
Another fact is just how many times the Urban Meyers and Nick Sabans of the world eked out wins against inferior teams due, and only due, to the fact they had superior talent. Talent makes up for a lot of coaching ills, and teams not being focused or ill-prepared. It is the reason that you often see average non-BCS teams give BCS teams for much of the games in the early season only to lose at the end … Marshall-WVU being the perfect example
My point with Tyler… Under Walt’s direction and system, he easily could have been developed into a much better QB than how he left Pitt. He would have been a GREAT system, college QB that could have Heisman-like credentials if he was allowed to developed. Not arguing NFL potential, not arguing limitations, simply a guy fit for a system. Think Pat White for Bitch Rich. He fit Walt’s system and was developing into a play maker until the “Snooze and Lose” offense came to town. If you remember, there was even pre-season Heisman talk on Palko until Cav & Wanny came to town.
The point here is…Wanny wants a pro system without pro-style QBs. Not gonna work. And if you are going to “manufacture” one with your buddy’s kid (Tino), you better put him in early and let him learn and grow into the position… and that should have been done last year instead of Stull.
Sadly, the QB is one of many problems on this team and the Wanny Era…just one that I feel like bitching about today….
You decide which “Panthers” is refering to Pitt.