The problem with Woodall not playing (and I agree, he could get squeezed because he’s just not going to be a good D1 PG) is that it means Gibbs handles it a lot. We already know Gibb’s isn’t a a penetrator or distributor; he slows this team down in transition and isn’t going to get your front line any easy hoops.

Epps is coming in late, so maybe he can help, but I have trouble imagining he’s ready to play many PG minutes in the BE.

I said this years ago and no one believed me. The recruiting miss on Woodall is going to prove to be really costly.

Chas, this is great stuff, thanks.

I would just like to say that our coaches run their tushes off both on- and off-season.

I had the opportunity to chat with one of them at an August function last year. That he fell asleep during the chat was partly a function of the company he kept, but mostly of his having been on the road virtually nonstop through the summer.

These coaches work hard.

If you actually watch the games from late in the season and look at the advanced stats, the team was better with Woodall in the game. He is never going to be a great shooter, but he is a true point guard with speed. Coach needs to get him minutes. Gibbs just isn’t a true point. He is better off with Woodall getting him shots.

I disagree with Hugh’s asessment of Woodall. I think he is a good D1 point guard. Pitt is a better team when he is in the game. Consistency is his problem. This is his third year, so I hope he puts it together.

recruiting miss?? what are you talking about. Woodall is on track to be a great player. He is our best point guard. How is that a recruiting miss?

I would caution against saying Woodall will become a “great player,” but I do agree the team was better late in the season when he was in there and playing decently. I do think he’s outstanding in transition, and he has the ability to penetrate that Gibbs certainly doesn’t. If his decision-making improves I think he can be a quality player, regardless of his outside shooting. (I.e., let’s hope he doesn’t shoot as much as he had some tendencies to do last year.)

Yea I don’t see how he’s a miss either. He’s a little turnover prone at this point but he’s as athletic a guard we have (I’m not counting Gil as a guard) and he sees the floor better than anyone on the team not named Wanamaker (who didn’t get there himself until last year).

Trey can get into the lane at will and once the game slows down for him a little be I think he’ll end up having a very similar career to Krauser.

I actually agree that there were many times Pitt was better with Woodall in the game, but I’d argue that had more to do with Gibbs playing out of position when he was at the point.

I hope he puts it together too, but nothing I saw this summer would lead me to believe that’s coming.

What I would have liked to see by this time was a Woodall who everyone knew had to be on the court 25-30 mins to give Pitt the best chance to win. The fact that we’re even debating what kind of minutes he gets and whether Epps will take minutes right away shows you how far away we are from that situation.

Wanamaker, Gibbs, Brown, Taylor, McGhee for lineup. Try Brad at PG and leave Gibbs open for shots

I agree with the concensus here. PITT was better as a team when Woodall played well. He played really well in the Texas game and then sort of fell apart for a month or so, go fewer and fewer minutes, then picked it back up towards the end of the season. He is certainly a better distributor of the ball and better off the dribble than Ashton, as Ashton as we know is really a 2. Coach will be earning his pay this year, trying to figure out combinations that work best together, as PITT appears to have at least 10 players vying for PT. Should be a very exciting year.

I just look to the history of PG’s under Howland and Dixon…To my knowlege, no FR PG has started or played more minutes than a more experienced PG…My two cents is that Woodall will start at PG and play more minutues there than any other member of the team. With all the talk of improved play under the basket, we don’t need our PG to be an offensive star. Just run the offense, take a lane if its there, limit turnovers, make your Free Throws, and play good defense. We will be fine with Woodall running the show.

He didn’t play more minutes than Krauser, but Fields played a lot as a true Freshman…

Woodall will have the potential to play an extremely important role. His contributions toward the second half of the year showed that he can bring into the game intensity and creativity. Gibbs is a capable point guard, but he’s very deliberate in everything. Wannamaker, who ran the offense on handoff from Gibbs often, is also like this. I remember there were times when I just wanted Woodall and a bit more energy and unpredictability inserted in the game. He also REALLY turned it up a notch on defense, including chasing down rebounds. Somebody’s going to have to get in the grills of Kemba Walker, Corrie Fisher, and Chris Wright this year and we DON’T want it to be Ashton. And it’s wishful thinking that an incoming Freshman will do this…..Woodall was a good player (not a star) on a big time high school program and has already demonstrated that he can hit a wall of adversity at the college level (as he did last year) and rebound to making a significant contribution. His first full year in the lineup and the team overachieved. So I’m not sure how that portends into a recruiting miss before his Sophomore season has even started.

Woodall’s definitely improved and is our best pure PG. He’s a great back up PG for this yr.

Haven’t heard too much about Gil or Dante this summer. I think these two are our most talented (at least physically gifted) players, so big years from either/both could be huge. Trying to get a feel for what to expect from them but hard to say. Anyone else heard much about their development? Does Dante break out? Does Gil plateau or become more consistent/more aggregessive/better generally?

??? “Woodall’s definitely improved and is our best pure PG.” ??? He is our best pure PG which is sadly the case until Epps gets here. I don’t where the definite improvement is coming from when he is totally overshadowed in summer league by tj mcconnell a incoming freshmen for Duquesne, a mid-major school I might add, and was not chosen for any summer league honors. I hope he has a great year but I kinda doubt it and agree more with hugh green that I disagree with him.

Tony C– I just cringed at the idea of Brad as PG. Yes, he’s our best penetrator, but only as a one-trick pony. Putting the ball in his hands to run the offense every possession is frightening. He’s best at the 2/3 spot.

SilverP– that’s a great point about Woodall’s rebounding. I forgot how many times he was quickest to react to a long rebound/loose ball. A great combo of athleticism and desire.

Wannamaker WAS the point guard when Gibbs was in the game. #22 is the most underrated Pitt player in this glorious 10-year stretch. I don’t know when that kid will get the respect he has earned. He is a heck of a player.

Regardless of what any of us think of him as a player, Woodall is a recruiting miss, so far.

Does anyone think Jamie recruited him with the idea that three years later he would be competing for back up minutes with a true freshman and he would have to move the best shooter in Pitt history to the point and let a 6’4″ swingman run the offense? Seriously, how could you consider Woodall anything but a miss so far?

The situation was set up for Woodall to be the heir apparent to Fields. But Dixon thought so little of Woodall’s performance his freshman year that he redshirted him and moved Gibbs to the point. He took Gibbs halfway around the world to “convert” him to a point guard. The next year Gibbs started, played 35+ minutes a game, led the team in scoring, got some big east honors while Woodall got 10-15 minutes as a back up and gave them an occasional spark. Jamie also recruited another big time true point guard, only one year separated from Woodall. Sounds to me like Jamie thinks he’s a miss too, as he has already brought in a replacement for him.

There’s still time for Woodall, but the window is closing quickly. It will stay open only as long as Epps lets it. If Epps is as advertised, Travon will be destined to being a career backup. Jamie didn’t recruit him to be a back up. Miss.

Omar, I agree with you that Wanamaker is underrated. I also like his basketball fundamentals. When he gets the ball, unless someone is open underneath, his first thought is, “Can I immediately drive?” Although simple, players don’t seem to be taught that anymore. To many, their first thought seems to be “Can I shoot the 3?” Or maybe they think “Let me bend down, move the ball back and forth a few times, and then drive and force up a shot.”

The problem with Wanamaker is that for all his energy he plays out of control most of the time and ends up forcing things. His turnover numbers are about the same as his assists. He can’t control the ball well enough to bring the ball up on a consistent basis. If you want to know why Gibbs is PG, the answer is Woodall and/or Wanamaker can’t handle the job.

Shady, hate to let the facts get in the way of a good story but…..In conference play last season, Wanamaker had the most assists and the best assist to turnover ratio (2.2) more than twice as many assists as turnovers.

Pitt, even as compared to years when they had better true point guard ball handlers, had no problem bringing the ball up, even against pressing teams. They had wing players like Robinson, Brown and Wanamaker who could really handle the ball.

The issue is in transition, Pitt didn’t get a ton of fast break hoops, but Pitt never really has liked to run up and down. Pitt needs a pg who can initiate the offense in the half court, and Wanamaker was good at that. Where pitt could have problems next year will be guarding quick point guards, Gibbs is an adequate on ball defender AT BEST. Dixon did some of that last year and maybe Wanamaker can handle some of those duties. But that’s where a guy like Woodall can make a difference. He is fast enough to stay in front of those guys, but does he have the size, strength and desire? TBD.

Anyone else skeptical that Epps isn’t coming? Why did he miss the summer session? To complete summer work elsewhere? Something smells fishy. Stay tuned

Hate to let the facts get in the way of a good rant, but Epps committed early to Pitt and was on their radar when Woodall was just stepping on campus. So the notion that Dixon brought Epps in because he lacked confidence in Woodall’s performance is bogus. All programs stack players and the coaching staff has said in the past that irrespective of position, they will take good players if they commit. And hate to let more facts get in the way, but Woodall got nailed in the jaw in practice his freshman year and went down hard. They red shirted him because he missed a lot of practice and they could afford a red shirt slot, so it’s by no means a “fact” that it was because of performance… Not guaranteeing that he’s going to be an effective general of the offense this year, but he struggled and recovered last year- his first full year. His conference stats don’t necessarily reflect the positive trajectory of his performance. People here have called Wanamaker a bust a couple years ago, McGhee was shitcanned a lot last couple of years, and Dante Taylor last year. And on the LiveBlogs, people give up and bail out when Pitt gets down late. So I guess it shouldn’t be a surprise when a sophomore is called a “recruiting bust”.

For what it’s worth a center, Gilbert, seems to have committed for 2011.

link to nbebasketball.com

Epps is still listed as on the roster on the Pitt official site as of this evening.

My understanding is that Epps could not enroll for the summer session because he was not yet qualified (e.g., there may have been a problem with one of his classes). Keep in mind what happened with Dodson a couple years ago. If Epps enrolls and is later determined to be ineligible, his career at Pitt may be over before it even starts. It sounds to me like everyone learned from the mistakes a couple years back.

That’s redshirt sophomore, Silver Panther. Important distinction. This will be year #3 of the program and we’re debating if there are minutes for him.

Dixon was forced to have Gibbs learn PG in U-19 because Woodall wasn’t ready to step into that role last year. That’s incontrovertible. Do you think Dixon wanted to do that? It had to hurt.

To tell the truth, Woodall’s already way better than I thought he was going to be after seeing him his freshman year. It’s good to see him develop, but he had (and has) a long, long, way to go. It’s just strange that anybody saw this kid play in HS and thought “Here’s Pitt’s next PG”.

They’re a better team if he comes on this year — no doubt about it. There’s just no one else to push the ball and they have some horses and depth to play that way. Here’s hoping he surprises us…..

Woodall redshirted in no small part to an injury, the year heading into the U19. There was no way he was even getting invited to the trials.

Gibbs had played as a freshman, was/is a 3-point shooter, and knew Coach Dixon’s practices and system. That was why Gibbs got a tryout and made the team. That and players like Kemba Walker refused to participate. Remember that Gibbs was one of the final invitees after several players backed-out.

While Gibbs helped run the point on the U19 squad, it was — much like last year’s Pitt team (hmmm) it was much more of a committee at the guard spot to run things — rather than a system with a set floor general. Guys like Tyshawn Taylor had more asssists, and Klay Thompson was comparable. If anything, the U19 team helped teach Coach Dixon more about being able to run a team w/o a pure point guard. Though, this could also be seen as operating as he did when Fields had been hurt and Ramon was forced to be the point guard.

link to usabasketball.com

Don’t obscure your broader point — which is not unreasonable — by making shit up.

Getting to play in the U-19s was a great opportunity for Gibbs and I think he deserved to make the team, but I’m sure Dixon didn’t want him to have to play PG in those games, which I watched.

Dixon took full advantage of that situation, which was smart, because he knew Gibbs was going to have to play a ton of PG last year. Hmmmmm……….I wonder why? Does anybody really think Dixon recruited Gibbs to handle the ball? C’mon now…….

Gibbs is 6’1″ tall. A backcourt with a 5’11” Woodall at the 1 and Gibbs at the 2 is a disaster defensively. Ashton Gibbs was going to have to learn to play the 1 for a spells under any conceivable scenario.

Additionally, Gibbs played exclusively as the back-up 1 his freshman year. I think this had more to do with his outstanding set shot, rather than anything about Woodall. Gibbs is an A+ in one area and average, or below, at everything else. Woodall is not an A+ in any area, but is above average in several areas. Certain players bring different things to the game. Gibbs is a shooter and Woodall is a playmaker. This really isn’t a bad problem to have.

Don’t quite buy the backcourt size argument. You can be a strong defensive guard without being tall; it’s all about strength and quickness and desire.

Pitt’s had plenty of small guards and some could play D and some couldn’t. Knight’s small, but he was strong and he could certainly play D.

The reason that backcourt is a problem defensively is because defense isn’t exactly either guy’s strong suit.

We can differ on how things played out. I think Dixon reacted to an unforeseen situation (who’s gong to be my PG???)and was lucky that Gibbs turned out to at least be a guy who could handle it well enough to sort of play that role.

I’m hoping Gibbs doesn’t have to play “distributor” much this year. It will hold Pitt back if he does.

By the way………..Woodall’s 5’11” the way Fields was, but that’s a different conversation.

The point about not being able to play Woodall and Gibbs at the same time due to their defensive shortcomings is valid, even if it isn’t because of their height.

Gibbs won’t be the distributer. He’ll lead the charge in bringing the ball up, but in the half court Wanamaker will be the “play maker”. He led the team in assists last year, no reason why he won’t do that again.

Where they could really use Woodall is on the fast break, he’s the only guy on the team who can push it. Pitt should be a better rebounding team this year, which should lead to more opportunities to run. Pitt has the talent to play that game, with the right guy leading it. They have some athletes (Brown, Brad, Nas, Taylor, Moore, Talib) who can finish if someone will push the ball. And if Gibbs runs to three point line and gets open looks on the secondary break, look out.

Don’t think it will happen, not the way Jamie likes to play, and not sure Travon can play controlled enough not to turn it over. But it is fun to imagine.