Heading out real soon. Taking the family to the ‘Burgh for the Three Rivers Arts Fest, so I’m counting on the conference expansion madness to pause for a day.
Just a few things to mention
The letter from ECU AD Terry Holland to his fanbase is astounding. It is all but an admission that ECU is not going to get a Big East invite anytime soon.
It is my belief that most FBS institutions in the Big East would genuinely like to have a ninth FBS member, but at this time, a ninth member is not an absolute necessity. The desire for a ninth member is not enough of a necessity to disrupt their relationship with the seven non-FBS schools and Notre Dame in all other sports.
If the Big East does still end up losing a FBS member (or members) to expansion in another conference, it will replace that all-sports member or members based on a pre-determined pecking order that addresses the conference’s needs at that particular time. Those needs may range from (1) the best football program available to bolster the Big East’s chances to keep their BCS automatic qualification, (2) the best overall sports program, (3) the best location for travel for all sports, and (4) other perceived needs of the conference membership as a whole.
Replacements for all-sports members in the Big East would have to be approved by all of the remaining members, not just the FBS members. So, if two Big East FBS members are lost to expansion, there would be 14 members remaining in the Big East. Eight of the 14 votes would be institutions which are not playing football in the Big East.
Instead trying to rally the fans to the idea of making C-USA better by getting the remains from the soon to be dead Big 12.
None of this is actually wrong in my view. But the candor is shocking. The best reason I can figure is Holland knows he will be blamed by the fans if they don’t get the invite.
The fact is, every fanbase seems to have an expectation that the AD and the school president can somehow make the case to conferences for them to be picked. If it doesn’t happen, then those leaders failed because of their incompetence — because clearly “School X” is the best fit and choice for “Conference Y” regardless of reality.
Texas and the other four Big 12 South schools will probably announce their move to the Pac-10 sometime Tuesday after the Texas regents meet. My bet is, that the weekend will see a final push by the SEC and Big 10 to Texas to join with them. Unless there is something incredible, I don’t see it happening.
The Big Ten, by all reports will pause at 12, and resume its old timetable plan. Also known as — trying to wear down Notre Dame.
Missouri is still trying to figure out what happened and what is next.
At this point, the Big Ten’s interest in Missouri is the biggest missing piece of the puzzle. A Big Ten source said Missouri has not been eliminated from the conference’s expansion plans but is not considered a high priority at this time. The source said Texas, from the Big 12, and Notre Dame, an independent in football, are clearly alongside each other on the Big Ten’s top tier of targets, followed by Nebraska, soon to become the Big Ten’s 12th member, and then Rutgers, a member of the Big East Conference. Missouri and Maryland, of the Atlantic Coast Conference, and perhaps other less publicized targets, could figure into the mix if the top choices decide against applying for admission or the league expands beyond 14 members.
And, of course, the Big 10/11/12 might do nothing for an even longer time now that it is at 12. They might wait and see if the SEC makes a move that involves poaching from the ACC. If that happens, then the Big East will go the way of the Big 12. Getting teams snagged by the ACC and the Big 10.
But Missouri has never wavered from its roots.
With MU’s future uncertain, Deaton and Forsee shared a tone of conference loyalty, pitching an even stronger case in favor of the Big 12 than Deaton and Athletic Director Mike Alden expressed during last week’s Big 12 athletic directors meetings in Kansas City. While some media outlets in Oklahoma and Texas have portrayed MU as sparking the league’s combustion by flirting with the Big Ten, Forsee pointed to MU’s long history with the conference through all its stages.
“We can’t say it any more strongly than we continue to say it: We have been loyal members of this conference alignment, going back to the Missouri Valley, the configuration of the Big Six, the Big Eight, the Big 12,” he said. “So, there shouldn’t be any question about where we have built our record, where we’ve built our legacy, where we’ve built our fans, where we’ve built everything, including the great rivalries.
“I don’t think we have to justify our loyalty. That’s been in place for 104 years.”
Yeah, but everyone else in the Big 12 thinks that Mizzou has been whining for about 103 years.
In the mean time, head over to Pitt Script and Cardiac Hill (formerly Eye of a Panther) for other expansion stuff and both are on top of the big recruiting gets for Pitt yesterday.
Question for yinz: Could the Big East dissolve itself by a majority vote?
Pitt
Penn State
Ohio State
Michigan
Michigan State
Notre Dame
Syracuse
Maryland / Boston College
Other games would include WVU, Nebraska, Wisconsin
Fun Stuff
This may not be important today but it may be next week/mo/yr….
Now is the time to strike!
I think the “6 big 12 teams to the PAC10” scenario is the nuclear option. I don’t think any of the 6 majors can sit back after that, so they all go postal, and the BE is gone, or a hoops league. I don’t think you have to worry about how thin you split the shares, in this case.
As far as being pro-active – well its true that neither the BE or ACC have done much to solidify their conferences. Right now, however, its hard to blame any of the 4 other majors for sitting back.
With few exceptions, no one is going to offer or accept until they see what the PAC10 and BIG f(x) decide to pull off. I just think everyone’s squeezing their cheeks right now.
found the write-up of the 1st rivalry and last rivalry listed to be pretty amusing
join already added Boise State I believe that we stand a very strong chance of seeing The Big East knocked out of the BCS picture. Our problem is very simple….football is where the $$$$ is and when you really take a long hard look and allow your personal preferences to stand aside as far as football is concerned, the Big East is nothing more than a basketball league with three or four decent football teams.
I go back more than 50 years with Pitt football and it pains me to say that I can’t see how we get out of this mess without an invite to the ACC.
If the ACC stands pat we become a very minor player in the BCS picture.
Based on their actions the ACC should be renamed the “Atlantic Southern Conference”. They do not see the advantage of the Notheast. Poor Boston College, they are so alone. The ACC thinks they are finally winning the Civil War.
We need to keep Rutgers, add a couple of football teams, and make our own destiny. Remember we are the conference with 25% of the national TV market.
Other than the ‘whale’ schools mentioned just about any other college would jump at the chance to get into the Big Ten. Regardless of how you feel about that conference the PITT administration would die for an invite.
New name for the league in play. My vote: Bicoastal (a la Peter Allen).
“FedEx CEO Fred Smith has spoken to various conference officials and made it known that his Memphis-based company could provide millions of dollars — perhaps as much as $10 million annually — to a BCS-affiliated league willing to offer an invitation to the University of Memphis, multiple sources close to the Memphis program have told CBSSports.com.”
Austin, TX to Seattle 2,221, to Phoenix 1,009
to Louisville 1,032, to Memphis 647 ( add Memphis since fedExp is willing to commit $10 million a year to any conference that takes memphis) to Cinn 1,135 to Storrs, Ct 1,896, to ND 1,225.
They will be traveling further in the PAC 10 than in the BE Super Conference.
Forbes latest edition has an article on the shifting of wealth by county. No county in Nebraska is a winner. For that matter nowhere in the present Big Ten footprint is there a winner.
If there is an entrance fee for the Big Ten, I believe they have been turned down before accepting Neb.
link to ncaafootball.fanhouse.com
“Marinatto believes Delany will not only consider his conference’s interests, but all of college athletics.”
uh ok… did marinatto actually see wall street?
Notre Dame has geography in common with The Conference Than Can’t Count…and nothing else. Notre Dame is a small private Catholic-affiliated university with nationwide impact, though not as much in recent years. Notre Dame schedules who they want, when they want, and where they want. Notre Dame isn’t about to give up its football relationship with the Naval Academy or USC and will not be strong armed into doing so by any number of Big Can’t Count schools.
A lot has been made of Note Dame’s contract with NBC, such that NBC is losing money on the contract, et cetera, et cetera. So, if NBC/Comcast/Versus decide to re-up with Notre Dame, they simply renegotiate the contract. NBC has no major team sport of its own to showcase except the NHL (while some don’t consider that major, I do) and NBC has to share the NFL in a minimal way. There is no MLB, no college basketball, no NBA, just golf and the Triple Crown and maybe some NASCAR. Comcast wants to build its Versus network into a major player and they need sports programming. Notre Dame knows this.
Notre Dame has no interest playing second banana to Ohio State and Michigan, especially Ohio State. Notre Dame will not willingly join any organization where Ohio State calls most of the shots – especially when OSU did not play Notre Dame for years and years even though other Big 10 schools did. Why? OSU is a bunch of snobs who has almost always preferred to schedule creampuffs in its nonconference schedule. Penn State has learned well from OSU.
PSU has made a boatload of money by joining the Big Can’t Count, but virtually all of their old rivalries have died, and not just Pitt. No WVU. No Syracuse. No Alabama. No USC. NO Notre Dame. Of course, the brain dead PSU faithful will fill Beaver Stadium no matter who they play, but they are too full of themselves to ever admit that Penn State is only along for the ride in the Big Can’t Count.
Translation – we know we are perfectly mediocre football conference, but that is ok, because we are run by basketball people and football really doesn’t matter. In fact, we (the basketball people who run this league) really don’t understand what all the fuss is about. Frankly, mediocre football doesn’t really affect us (Providence, St. Johns, Seton Hall, DePaul, etc.).
I’m starting to think that the Big East is essentially going to remain unchanged, and eventually, will lose its BCS bid as well. Can anyone question why the football schools in the Big East are frustrated?
Ditto, Dan. The Big East is as ineffectual as the UN.
Pitt has got to cornhusk its way out of it.
C’mon Steve, get on top of this mess. Exercise your ‘husker chutzpah.
I want out.
A football program at most major universities features a stadium that holds at least 50,000 people X 6 home games……….300,000.
Basketball at most strong programs =’s a facility that holds 14,000 x 15 home games =’s 210,000 attendees. TV ratings for college basketball are obviously through the roof for “March Madness”, however, the big TV money is for football….not your average Wednesday night when Uconn is thumping USF……or Michigan is losing to Wisconsin.
TV rating for Alabama vs. Florida Basketball vs. Alabama Vs. Florida football…The money is in football.
This entire discussion about conference changes is ENTIRELY about football with ONE EXCEPTION…
The Big East has a totally unbalanced membership with more basketball schools (many of the small in size) and an outside interloper ND who can do whatever it wants as long as it can stay out of the Big East football conference aqnd keep all of its NBC TV money. #@&%# THIS IS CRAZY FOLKS!!
Pitt is an oustanding University with a great tradition in football, solid academics (better than most) in a top 25 TV market and yet, it has to stand by and possibly be dumped on to the Memphis, ECU, UCF grbage heap beca
A football program at most major universities features a stadium that holds at least 50,000 people X 6 home games……….300,000.
Basketball at most strong programs =’s a facility that holds 14,000 x 15 home games =’s 210,000 attendees. TV ratings for college basketball are obviously through the roof for “March Madness”, however, the big TV money is for football….not your average Wednesday night when Uconn is thumping USF……or Michigan is losing to Wisconsin.
TV ratings for Alabama vs. Florida Basketball vs. Alabama Vs. Florida football…The money is in football.
This entire discussion about conference changes is ENTIRELY about football with ONE EXCEPTION…
The Big East has a totally unbalanced membership with more basketball schools (many of them small in size) and an outside interloper ND who can do whatever it wants as long as it can stay out of the Big East football conference and keep all of its NBC TV money. #@&%# THIS IS CRAZY FOLKS!!
Pitt is an oustanding University with a great tradition in football, solid academics (better than most) in a top 25 TV market and yet, it has to stand by and possibly be dumped on to the Memphis, ECU, UCF garbage heap because it has to take orders from Providence!!
Break up the Big East and let’s talk football…Jamie Dixon will still be in great shape if the league splits apart from the Catholic basketball schools as long as it does not settle for third and fourth tier football colleges.
They are the 4th wealthiest college football program in the US, and are constantly in the top five on that list – year in and year out. Just like ND the have alumni everywhere across the US and unlike PITT there alumni actually care about the football program… greatly and with deep pockets.
That is a huge feather in the B10’s cap as it give them another 3 or so “must see” national games a year – UN-OSU, UN-UM, UN-PSU.
Any writer who states “I had discussions with powerful Big East Alumni Associations…’ as if they have any insight at all as to what is happening should give readers a clue the writer is reaching and making stuff up.
It’s a commuter rag given away free of the subways and buses in the DC area – akin to quoting The City Paper for your sports discussions.
That is why I have not mentioned their stories in the expansion round-up. The same reason I don’t link to Bleacher Report “stories.” They’re speculation pieces with no real info.
This might explain why the BE has not aggressively pursued additional teams, and also why they haven’t given ND an ultimatum. Kicking ND out of the BE would ultimately spell it’s demise. And why wouldn’t ND want to remain tied with a weak conference? Essentially, when ND is good, it will have every chance at a BCS bowl. When it’s not so good, it’s still would get preference over one of the middle BE teams in a decent bowl.
Now, this is not the ideal situation for the BE, but it will survive. And if the SEC would happen to grab a few teams from the ACC, the BE should pounce in order to kill it off. With ND’s interests closely tied with the long term existence of the Big East, this is an important relationship to maintain. We really don’t want ND to join the BE. Doing so would work for a few years, until ND determines it’s interests are better served moving to the B10. Unfortunately, with the profitability of the Big 10, the BE will never have total commitment from any of it’s members. Pitt, WVU, SU, RU, etc would all think less than a millisecond before accepting a bid to the B10. So, the BE needs to prepare as if that is the case. Leverage the long term viability afforded by the Notre Dame relationship, and then crush the ACC if it becomes weakened. If the 4 Northern B12 schools become available, make it worth their while to join. Get to 16 teams. Divide the basketball only schools into their own division and only play a few inter-division games per year. Have a BE Football Championship that rotates between Boston, New York, Pittsburgh, and Cincinnati. Have the first round or two of the BE tourney played regionally, with the better schools getting home court.
This may not be the gloom and doom that we expect, but an opportunity to become the dominant conference in the northeast.
While the BE conference leadership professes to be content with the current conference makeup, unwilling to eject any schools or to poach any other conferences, I would be amazed if any of the individual BE schools are sitting still while all this craziness goes on.
Certainly, Nordenberg and Pederson are savvy enough to be pusuing back channel contacts to develop options that are in the best interest of Pitt. Their counterparts at Syracuse, Uconn, WVU, and Rutgers are probably doing the same. I’d be mildly surprised if even the hoops-only schools are not discretely discussing their options should the football schools pull out.
Pitt’s leadership now is better than it has been in the past 40 years. Academics, facilities and athletics are all stronger as a result. Whether it’s the big 11/12/etc, an expanded ACC or an expanded Big East, we’re going to be OK. Football will get stronger and basketball may be different but still excellent.
All we can do is watch the circus play out and look forward to taking on the Utes in September.
I just received an email attaching an interview with New Jersey’s Governor Cristie stating it would be okay for Rutgers to move on to another conference it that’s what it takes to have Rutgers’ athletics excel.
The Governor is a Seaton Hall Law Grad.
This is not good news for Pitt.
link to bleacherreport.com
Basically author says B10 took Nebraska to blow up B12. To get ND B10 needs to blow up BE who will be most crushing lost to BE – Pitt. With Pitt gone WVU leaves for another conference and if needed B10 takes BE teams until ND gives in.
Also interesting poll going on asking what single BE team can the BE least afford to lose.