Of all the things that should be rightly questioned and second-guessed over the Cinci-Pitt game, the whole clock management before Lewis scored the TD with 1:36 left is the silliest. The argument being that Pitt scored too fast and that if Pitt had somehow bled the clock better, Cinci would have been out of timeouts and not able to score in time — or at least it would have been harder.
I always hate these things in general because it not only presumes that the team that scored too quickly was in complete control to dictate exactly everything. To say nothing of believing college players are going to execute everything with absolute perfection that is rarely seen in the NFL.
I see in the comments how Pete Thamel’s argument (But Wannstedt should have drained the clock before scoring and Lewis ran out of bounds with just over two minutes remaining.)was already destroyed by reality.
When Lewis ran out of bounds, the clock kept running (NCAA rule, Matt Millen even made mention of it …
When even a PSU grad like Matt Millen has a better grasp of NCAA clock rules, you should be embarrassed.
Pitt had just completed a 3d and 9 with a 16 yard to Baldwin for 1st and 10 from the 13. 2:44 left and Dion Lewis breaks off an 8 yard run. Lewis then goes right up the middle for 5 more yards and the score. Cinci was left with 1:36 and 2 TOs left.
The idea being that if Pitt managed to only pick up 2 yards and then bled the clock to force Cinci timeouts and then Pitt kicks a FG with far less time left and Cinci with no timeouts left to get a game tying FG or winning score is silly.
Theoretically, I suppose it could happen. Pitt would have 1st and goal from the 2 or 3 with 1:36 left. Cinci wouldn’t use the timeout as the clock would stop briefly for the moving of chains.
Pitt would bleed the clock and take a knee on 1st down. Cinci TO. Knee on second down. Cinci TO. Knee on 3d down, and bleed the clock between plays and Pitt would take a TO just before the play clock expired. Roughly, Pitt would be kicking a FG with somewhere around 15 seconds left.
Worst that happens is Pitt flubs the kick and Cinci has no real time to get down the field and it goes to OT. More likely, get the FG and kick off with 10-12 seconds left.
First problem, Pitt’s special teams were hideous and counting on the special teams not to give Cinci a short field with any time left on the clock contradicts all that came before that point.
Odds are that Pitt would end up kicking out of bounds trying to avoid letting Gilyard near the ball again. I believe everyone saw that the week before with WVU.
So Cinci would start at the 40 with no time moved. They would have to get to about the 28 to allow a 45 yard attempt — Cinci kicker Jake Roger’s longest of this season (3-5 from 40-49 yards in 09). So they would need to get 22 yards with enough time to spike the ball and kick a game-tying FG.
The way Cinci was playing at the end of the 4th quarter that seems rather plausible. Plus, again, given how Pitt was playing at that point does anyone truly think Pitt could have executed as flawlessly as this scenario demanded?
I love stats and numbers. But, it is still sport and those immeasurables of momentum and confidence were all with Cinci. Pitt was trying to hang on and snatch back a victory they had let slip away. That rarely happens, and usually only with a freak bounce.
However they did miss their chance by scoring too soon. In modern CFB the offense has such an advantage, if don’t give them the ball, the worst that would have happen would have been overtime.
Here’s my full analysis on Pitt clock management debacle.
link to kittanningpaper.com
FWIW, here is an article that pretty much sums up my feelings
link to football.nbe-network.net
I fully expect NC to bitch slap us (even though I think we are a more talented team). I really hope I am wrong.
The clock does stop for a few seconds when Lewis ran out of bounds (while they set the ball) and then Pitt also hiked it with time still on the play clock..they could of eaten up even more time so it was even possible to run it down to zero seconds..though not going to get on Lewis for not staying in bounds..he might had been just a little tired at that point.
Bottom line, scoring the touchdown didn’t work (and gave us one of the worse losses in Pitt history)….next time let’s see them take a knee and see what happens…I bet it isn’t silly at all.
Also funny how nobody is saying it was silly for Cinn to let Pitt score (even though they said they didn’t)..everyone seems to think that was a genius move.
How about if we kick off to someone without #1 on their uniform?????
How about the defense steps up and stops the Cinci offense one more time than they did????
How about Fields runs Pike’s ass over or at least makes a move on him instead of letting Pike push him out of bounds?????
Fletch, No argument on any of those, you could do the same for any close game for both sides..but even with all the mistakes up to that point once Baldwin converted the 3rd down on the 13 yard line with such little time left, that should of sealed the game up for Pitt.
I watched the replay of lewis’ TD about a half dozen times and am NOT convinced at all that Cincy let them score, and ..
could you imagine the criticism of Wanny had they settled for a FG and then botched the snap??
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying fire Wannstedt..he’s the best coach for Pitt…he’s a class guy and I don’t think it is possible to find a more passionate coach for Pitt football…but man I wish he would keep his head during game times.
So, as I’m walking out of the stadium repeatedly saying ‘f–k….f–k….f–k’ I kept getting text messages from my non-Pitt buddies with the same theme. “Best college football game they had seen all year.” Friends from Va Tech, Maryland, and even my one PSU buddy….all said that made them think of the Big East in a different light.
So, I’m back at work in Baltimore now, and most of my co-workers know I am a die-hard Pitt fan. A number of them kept coming up to me saying what an awesome game that was to watch…Dion and Baldwin are beasts…etc..
Look, this loss stings like hell….but my point is that Pitt and the Big East gained much respect on Sat…I have no doubt in that.
We will beat the heck out of UNC and finish this season with 10 wins. All the Wanny haters need to go away now
wanny’s game planning and game management liabilities outway his love of pitt and recruiting prowess…imo.
If Cinncy loses by 28 points to the Gators you can kiss any of that respect right out the window. Though I am predicting it will be a close game.
I think Florida can easily drop 50 on that Cincy D….but I also think Cincy can score at will, so envision a close high scoring affair. (Florida D is over-rated)
As for the Pitt – UNC game. Would have loved to see this match up last year on the hardwood…How great would it be to see Blair vs. Hansbrough…..anyway, I don’t think UNC can hang with us football-wise…Pitt wins easily
The players didn’t make plays…and if you were at the game, you KNOW that the refs gave Cinci at least 3 to 4 critical calls.
A nine win season last year…and possibility for a ten win season this year..while coming 1 minute away from a Big East championship…that is damn good…I expect Big East championships from Pitt and am confident they will be coming for years to come.
The “Fire Wanny” calls are ridiculous, and I’m sure in the minority….pretty funny actually.
the only 2nd guessing would be on punts and kickoffs kicking them out of bounds. the onsides kick would have been great. Bladwin reverses AWAY from the run blitzes might not hurt. but WOW what a ride!!b what a great game and thrilling season. The firewanstedt.com guy is obviously new to Pitt sports, or he would realize a Pitt fan’s heart is broken more often than a 16 year old girls! Go Pitt!! use this as a springboard to future greatness!!
Kurt
I’m actually happy to be in a position to be upset about back-to-back nine win seasons and back-to-back bowl games.
It wasn’t so long ago that we were just dreaming for a winning record …
Cute clock games look good in hindsight, but if you don’t have the confidence to hold a touchdown lead with 1:38 left then football is not the sport for you.
As a previous poster wrote, what if Janocko dropped the FG snap as well? The chorus of “Typical Wanny” would be deafening. Let’s get off this issue. It ranks about number twelve on my list of things that cost us the game.
I totally agree. The issue regarding Wannstedt is simple to diagnose: He stays and we continue to hover around a 7-10 win season. He is not a great game day coach and no one, even the most diehard Wannstedt backers,can find evidence to say he is, and we will continue to be out-smarted and out-coached by the most high profile opponents we face. I cannot quite quantify how many are Wannstedt backers no matter what. If Pitt is going to be the power it was in the late 70s – and 30s for that matter – Wannstedt is not the guy to deliver. But I premise my support for change on the notion that Pederson will finally step up to the plate and come up with the dollars to pay the best coach Pitt can find. That coach won’t come at the $1.5 million Wannstedt is getting paid. Wannstedt is a Pitt guy and will always have a role here – but he is not going to deliver the 12-0 regular seasons we want. Just remember all of you who feel the need to defend him no matter how illogical your arguments are: Be satisfied with enhanced mediocrity. Pitt is 9-3 against a mid-level schedule – they beat no ranked teams. I hope those of you who continue to support Wannstedt buy up all the tickets to Heinz Field and travel to the mid-level bowl games he will earn. Some of us are wanting more achievement and much less frustration from the poor game day performances, lack of prepardness for big games, over use of some players to the total neglect of others.
The game simply goes to overtime and we’re either happy today, or bitching about something that happened in OT that cost us the game.
If you don’t believe me, look at Cincinnati. They brought in a new coach in 2006 and they haven’t done anything of note. Oh, wait a minute that can’t be right. Let me look for another example and I’ll be right back.
And it’s not like he didn’t have similar scenrio ealier this year…the UConn game was similar in that Pitt passed on a TD and had Stull take a knee on a 3rd and goal at the 1 yard line to run the clock to zero to kick a game winning FG…I don’t recall anyone on this board saying ‘go for the TD you wimp’ at that time..or ‘What a stupid move because the snap could be bobbled’ In fact it was considered great coaching at the time.
The only arguement I will agree with is that Pitt HAD to be able to run the clock to zero when they attempeted the FG..I agree there is time left on the clock when you have to attempt the FG then you should take the TD…Pitt could of ran the clock to zero with a little thinking at the end of the game.
Again I am not a Wannsdadt hater or think he should be fired..I still think the good out weighs the bad. The program is in it’s best place in decades and I think next year they’ll even be better.
On the other side of the coin is reality. How many people are willing to contribute to the Panther Club, buy season tickets and travel on Christmas day to a city with no beaches to watch a team with so much talent and potential be outcoached when it matters? You may not like reality, but just because you don’t like it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. Therein lies the challenge.
Everybody wants to go to heaven but nobody wants to die to get there. If some are ok with a half empty Heinz Field on Saturdays and a mediocre bowl everly year or so, well, go for it. On the other hand, it is hard to be critical of the folks who fantasize to be a relevant football program again, especially when the solution is as obvious as the elephant in the corner of the room.
State Penn has had only two undefeated seasons in 25 years!
Bob Stoops and Okla Sooners…Only one! They had 2 losses last year, 3 losses in 2007, 3 losses in 2006, etc…(oh and they lost to a non-BCS Boise St in their bowl) Stoops was outcoached!!! Get rid of him!
Florida Gators …haven’t gone undefeated..they have always had games each year where Urban was “outcoached”
Isn’t it funny how Belichek was a horrible game-day coach when he was in Cleveland, but he is a genius in New England. You gotta have the PLAYERS, and Wanny is in the process of building that.
As for the bowls…that is simply a Big East affiliation problem. Not a Pitt problem. PSU is the #3 in the Big Ten and they get Tennessee on New Years…Pitt is #3 in Big East and well…..
Wanny may be a great guy, Pitt Alum, whatever. Until people realize that the only way Pitt will be nationally in the top 10 consistently is to get a coach that can coach and recruit. I thought he was a “defensive genius”; it sure didnt look like it Saturday. Also, who do you put the blame on to CONTINUE TO KICKOFF TO GILLIARD? Surely our kickers knew better. How about running time off the play clock before snapping the ball – a 5th yr senior should know better, and a former NFL head coach that does the whole ball possession thing should DRILL that idea into the Qbs head.
Sorry, if you are looking for 8 win seasons, then I guess you are happy. Some of us supporters and Alum have greater expectations. Where is the national championship in 3 years we were promised? Looks like Saban is doing just fine with that goal – how about you Dave?
Oh…and Alabama got SMOKED by a non-BCS team in Utah last year in their bowl game. Saban was simply outcoached by a no-name.
Cincy lost their bowl game to Va Tech last year…
Again…this season was not mediocre by any means… 11 points away from being undefeated at 12-0. Progress has been so obvious…I don’t get it.
I was one who thought if we kept Harris, we would be mdeiocre winning 7 or 8 games (although he has my gratitude for picking this Pitt program up from the ashes). But with Wanny, we are going to be very successful, not mediocre.
Nothing we can do about it as the reality is you are correct in that the administration is going to support Wanny. It will be painful to watch. I hope I am wrong.
TonyinHouston..Paul Zeise wrote on attendence now compared to 80’s..attendence now is greater..even when Pitt was best team in the country they didn’t come close to selling out Pitt Stadiun every game…I remember many games during those times when the end zones were empty during that time period…sure they sold out the big games but a lot of empty seats as well: link to post-gazette.com
Alot of your points are assumptions and not facts…and you are certainly entitled to your opinion, but I, and many others view the direction of the program very differently.
“Steve Pederson is happy with eight or nine wins” – your opinion, not reality. If that were the case, Cavs would still be here. Steve wants a BE and NC championship and truly believes Wanny can deliver on it. Can you really argue when we were just 11 points from being undefeated??
“Steve seems to be primarily interested in selling tickets even if he has to use linked-single game ticket packages as well as reduced prices to do so.” – That is part of his job…selling tix..not sure of your point here.
I still don’t understand the arguement for replacing Wanny?!? Please explain as I am a die-hard Pitt fan, and was one before Wanny was here, so I am always open to rational arguements.
Regarding coaching: What were our biggest question marks entering the season…QB and RB.
If you are going to blame the coach on certain aspects of the program, then you have to give credit to the coach (not his co-ordinators by your thinkning) for the positives. Who turned the below-average Bill Stull into one of the most efficient QBs in the nation…a true freshman RB with Heisman-like, Dorsett-like numbers…. a dominant O-line that destroyed top ranked run defenses all year, a D-line that lead the nation in sacks (without blitzing!)…
Pitt has a lot going for them, think about next year (if we win vs UNC):
– Top 15 ranking at end of season
– Two great sophmore RB’s coming back.
– Great OC has with a year under his belt
– Two QBs who will know FCJ’s system well, and hopefully improve QB play. (hey, look what Cig did to Stully)
– Stud WR in baldwin
– Mason will have year under his belt at LB.
– The student section is more animated and involved in games than anytime we can remember
– Big game atmosphere is amazing at Heinz Field.
– Two nationally televised games at Heinze Field, and Pitt showed up for both. While I am still depressed about the loss to Cinci, nationally people were impressed with Pitt’s performance in both these games.
– Hopefully both DE’s come back.
– BE will have 3 teams in top 25 if not top 15 if WVU wins bowl.
– Three big time games in our OOC (Utah, Miami, ND), a score to settle with WVU and Cinci, and a BE title to claim.
I feel like Bluto in Animal House after the bros were expelled….
“Over? Did you say “over”? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!…..And it ain’t over now. ‘Cause when the goin’ gets tough…..the tough get goin’! Who’s with me?
Let’s go!…..Brian Kelly, he’s a dead man… Cinci, dead!….WVU, dead!
I know this all assumes Pitt doesn’t fumble the ball, and doesn’t blow the FG attempt. And I’m usually never an advocate for laying down or doing anything other than going for the throat. But I would have liked their chances better than what they were after Dion’s TD, with or without the extra point.