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December 4, 2008

What’s Up With Stull?

Filed under: Football,Players — Chas @ 11:57 am

Someone actually asked the question in the Zeise Q&A before the Brawl?

Q: What happened to Bill Stull? I thought after having a very shaky start to the season he played very well against Rutgers, too bad the ‘D’ stunk, and L-Ville. But against Cincinnati, he looked like a dear in head lights, his passes all looked like floaters in the first half and he had no pocket awareness. He took some bad sacks and down the stretch it only got worse. Was he just nervous in his first “Big Game?”

ZEISE: No his first big game came against Iowa, and then South Florida and then Louisville – and he did well enough. I don’t think he was nervous, I don’t think he was panicked, I think he just didn’t play well. He clearly held the ball too long a few times and he missed some easy passes, but that is what happens sometimes, guys just don’t play well for whatever reason. I do think this — he didn’t get a lot of help from his receivers in that game as they dropped too many passes for anyone’s good. Stull will be fine and like I’ve written before, he is what he is — I don’t think by any stretch he is a great quarterback, but he is by far Pitt’s best option so the Panthers fate is in his hands.

Then came yet another shaky (at best) performance by Stull.

…Bill Stull had his worst game of the season. He threw two really bad interceptions and both were just terrible throws. He fumbled once, he missed Conredge Collins on a fourth-and-short, and he had one of the worst attempts at a quarterback draw we’ve ever seen. He has to be better. There is just no way around it. He wasn’t terribly accurate and, outside of an early touchdown throw to Derek Kinder, he didn’t do much to contribute to the win.

He just hasn’t been the same since he got concussed. Maybe it’s a coincidence. I don’t know. Before the concussion he was acceptable with moments where it seemed that he was making significant progress. Since coming back, he just doesn’t seem to have it. I sincerely doubt that it is a lingering physical effect. It seems more psychological. Hesitant when dropping back. Completely messed up footwork. Staring down the receiver even more than before. I don’t know if he’s thinking too much or what. It was masked in the Louisville game, with the Cards selling out completely to stop the run. Louisville does not have a particularly good secondary, and being stuck without help made it easier.

Zeise, then faced a slew of people questioning Stull and accusing Zeise of defending him.

…But here is what I’d like to know — when did I become the great defender/apologizer of/for Bill Stull? The only thing I have maintained through all of this is that Stull has limitations, but he is a gritty guy, a guy with leadership ability and most importantly the best option Pitt has. That’s what I have said all along. I don’t think he is a great quarterback, I don’t think he is the second coming of Dan Marino, Rod Rutherford, Alex Van Pelt — or for that matter John Turman. He is a serviceable quarterback with limitations who plays with some heart and grit and can make enough throws to give Pitt a chance to win. That’s it. But the more important part of the equation is this — there is NO better option on this team right now. Yes, I get it, he didn’t play well the last two weeks, and that’s probably being too kind. He made bad decisions, bad throws and bad turnovers…

There is no other option right now. I don’t think anyone is sincerely or rationally disagreeing with that. It’s just that it is such a glaring issue… well people are trying to make sense of it and want some sort of answer.

Really, this seems more like an off-season argument/debate/discussion, but people are already talking. So much, that Coach Wannstedt had to take a question on it during his weekly press conference.

On Bill Stull’s recent play:

“I think it’s a little bit physical with Bill. Everything comes with success. We had success — I’m going back here now against Louisville. All it takes is one game. We go up and struggle against Cincinnati for several reasons. Unfortunately the quarterback is, as we say, going to get more credit than he deserves when the team plays well and more negativity and blame than he deserves when things don’t go well. That’s part of being a quarterback. I think that when you have a first-year starting quarterback like Billy is — he’s dealing with that right now. He’s trying to work his way through. He is more than capable of hitting the fullback in the flat but we don’t hit him (against West Virginia). He has to set his feet and get the ball up. He makes that throw ten times a day in practice. The other thing of course is making good decisions. Not forcing the football and managing the team are things he has to do and he understands that. He made some good plays though early on. He opens up and makes a good throw to Derek Kinder and a great pass to Nate Byham. He starts off the game hot and he has confidence. All of a sudden he throws some incompletions and a pick down on the goal line and his confidence is shaken. He has to get it back. Is he struggling right now? I would say no. I don’t think he’s struggling, I think he’s just working extremely hard to get better. West Virginia has a pretty good defense. So does Cincinnati and Connecticut for that matter. He’s going to need to step up this week.”

Stull, to his credit, has admitted that he hasn’t played particularly well.

“If [the passing game] is out of sync, I take that on my shoulders,” he said. “I have to make sure we are in sync because I am the one who is responsible for distributing the football to all of our talented receivers.

“I am not sure if we are or aren’t in sync but we are looking pretty good so far during practice this week and hopefully this weekend you will see us be more in sync.”

The good thing for the team about having a bowl bid. Nearly an extra month of practice.

I expect this to be a very loud and cantankerous issue in the offseason when there is nothing to do but speculate.

Personally, I see little difference between Stull and Bostick other than the coaches having greater confidence in Stull. So if those intangibles and leadership factors are really there, then yeah, he has to be the starter.

[If you want to play devil’s advocate on Stull or Bostick for next year, consider this. Bostick came in last year as a true freshman, definitely not ready, had a worse receiving corps, was without the best WR, and a patchwork, porous O-line, took a beating but kept getting up. Bostick had to come in cold for the Rutgers game this year and then had to prepare for his first full game being on the road at ND — the game after the starting center went down and the O-line had to re-shuffle. No he wasn’t that good, but he was no worse than Stull has been the past few games, and not that far below Stull for most of the season.]

Plus, there is no way that this coaching staff would even contemplating a change at QB without an injury. And if you want to start looking ahead to the spring and next year, well Zeise is all about killing that dream.

Q: Throughout the season you have maintained that there will not an open competition at quarterback in the spring or next fall but after Bill Stull’s last two performances do you think that is still true?

ZEISE: What I have maintained is this: Given what we know about the way this coaching staff views experience and given how hesitant it has been to playing less experienced players regardless of their talent level — it will take an absolutely magical performance in the spring by Tino Sunseri, Kevan Smith or Pat Bostick for it to become a competition. There will be a competition and I’d love to tell you it will be wide open and Sunseri — who many people within the program and other observers will tell you is the best of the bunch in terms of throwing the football and doing so with velocity and accuracy and delivering it on time — will have a legitimate chance. But what has this coaching staff done in three years to suggest that it will put a redshirt freshman out on the field, even if he’s more talented, over an experienced fifth-year senior and that’s especially true at quarterback. I just don’t see it happening. …

Again, this really should be an issue of debate for the offseason. Right now, I’m just going to hope that Bill Stull is right and these are correctable mistakes on his part.





There is no doubt Stull’s play needs to improve, but like it or not he is going to be the starter this year and next year. As bad as he played against WVU he still made some big plays and simply having some sort of threat to throw the football opens up a lot for the running game and McCoy. That’s something you don’t get with Bostick. Against Cincinnati, Stull’s play was mediocre. I counted at least 4 or 5 balls that should have been caught by our WR’s. To me it looks like his confidence is a bit shaken since the concussion and I hope he is able to overcome that as he settles back in to the position.

If he can eliminate some of the mental errors we will be fine. In the long run however, this problem is only going to be solved by recruiting someone to come in and play the position. And that isn’t going to help us this year or next. Bostick (D-3 Quarterback at best), Smith (Deer in headlights) or Cross (Not sure what’s going on there) are NOT the answer. So for now we have to live with Stull and hope that he can improve. He is still relatively inexperienced and ought to be able to improve.

Hail to Pitt.

Comment by TJ 12.04.08 @ 12:21 pm

why can’t someone coach up smith?? all those physical tools…just going to waste b/c he needs a fucking sports psychologist.

Comment by Scott 12.04.08 @ 1:15 pm

Chas,
Bostick at ND was far worse than even Stull’s worst performances, those of the past few games. He looks like he is playing way out of his league. At least Stull has looked good at times (L’ville for example). Yes, he was bad the last two, but, keep in mind that both Cinci and WVU are far better teams than ND. I mean Cuse beat ND at ND. W/ Stull in that game I don’t think ND is even close to Pitt, and many people after the game agreed. Bostick threw 3 horrendous picks in the ND game. Plus, Charlie Weiss had so much confidence that Bostick couldn’t hurt them throwing that he went for it on fourth down with a minute left, saying here Pat, I know you can’t score, so I’ll give you half of the field. Promptly he threw a pic. I think its being a little harsh to say there is no real difference between them. Yes, Stull is lacking some skills, mobility, armstrength etc., but he is by no means lacking as much as Bostick. Billy has for the most part done a decent job prior to the past two games. Give the kid some time, at this point he actually may be less experienced than Bostick who played all last year. Bill will grow, make better reads, and the Panthers will continue to win.
Also: Scott I agree, Smith does need a sports psychologist. He obviously has a cannon judging by his first throw at ND, that went probably 20 yards away from the field.

Comment by Froot Luips 12.04.08 @ 1:24 pm

Bring in Greg Cross. You can’t tell me that improving the running threat out of the backfield won’t result in the availability of some easy passes. Crosses arm can’t be so bad that he can roll out and hit a guy 10 yards down the field. Let the defenses play the running attack of McCoy/Cross or McCoy/ S-H or McCoy/Collins/Cross.

Comment by Oakland_Cloud_Factory 12.04.08 @ 4:20 pm

In 2 or 3 years we’ll have Sunseri in there and have a shot at doing something great…

Comment by Stuart 12.04.08 @ 5:28 pm

Putting Cross in the backfield only makes us more one dimensional. Its a joke how easy it is to stop a team when you know what they’re going to do. From what I hear his (Cross) arm isn’t the problem either. There’s more to making the passing game work than simply being able to throw a spiral and seems like he doesn’t have the ability to consistently make the reads at this level.

Comment by Sharty Mottenheimer 12.04.08 @ 7:08 pm

Not that I’m a Stull fan by any means, but it’s nice to see a few people cutting the kid a break. Last year people stuck up for Bostick, when he was horrible, just because he was a freshman. It’s one thing to be a freshman, but it’s another thing to be a freshman without any talent. Bostick is without a doubt an athlete without D-I potential. Stull, although he is at the bottom of D-I ability, at least resembles a QB. Wannstedt and Harris are at two ends of the offensive spectrum. Harris was QB and receiver happy, where as, Wannstedt is running back and linemen happy. What happened to a coach that believes in a balanced offense? Sad to say, Harris had four QB’s on the roster better than anyone presently at Pitt. Yes, some suggest that Sunseri will be the answer, but history shows that QB’s sitting the sidelines are always thought to be better than the present starter. Last year everyone thought Stull was the cure to all of our passing woes, now he’s the latest whipping boy for all ticked off Pitt fans. In my opinion, the Pitt staff needs to get on the road and recruit a real QB. The scary part of that scenario is: can they recognize a real QB if they see one.

Comment by ltl 12.04.08 @ 8:00 pm

You can win by just running. Just look at GA Tech.
link to scores.espn.go.com

Comment by E 12.04.08 @ 8:37 pm

Did you ever hear the old saying, occasionally ever dog finds a bone? On certain days the run game may be all that’s required to obtain a W, but what happens when that part of the offense goes South? I believe any quality offensive coordinator would agree that a well balanced offense is preferred over a one dimensional offensive attack. There’s a reason NFL QB’s are in high demand and paid a lot of money to perform.

Comment by ltl 12.04.08 @ 9:12 pm

Yes, you can win by just running if you are Navy or G-Tech…that’s not our offense. We don’t have the players to do that. Nothing is wrong with our offense. Stull needs to mature and cut down the mental errors. Receivers need to make plays when they get the chance and the line needs to do a little bit better job of pass blocking and picking up blitzes.

Comment by Sharty Mottenheimer 12.04.08 @ 10:29 pm

I predict Stull gets back on track and has a good game at UConn — not so great for WVU, but dropped passes have been hurting him all year. The passing game plan for WVU looked good and it seems Stull and Cavanaugh are working well together of late — despite a few bad passes. If Rich Rod wears everyone out at Michigan by next summer, would be cool possibility to have their QB Threet transfer to Pitt. He impressed me with his arm and mobility for a big guy, and is only a Freshman…could sit out next year and still play two years at Pitt. Maybe another blue chipper biding his time at Oklahoma or USC would rather start for Wannstedt?

Comment by Matt N. 12.05.08 @ 1:06 am

It has been maddeningly frustrating to watch Bill Stull’s play this season. Prior to the opener I was very much looking forward to his being the starting QB, and thought we’d see above average production from him.

Why I say maddeningly is that in almost every game Stull will throw a few beautiful passes, both strong and accurate deep balls, and precision short balls with touch – and then miss on many easy passes that even I could complete.

It sort of goes against what most fans think about him – lack of arm strength being the most common complaint, because he’ll make some long passes – last week a beautiful deep out that the announcers raved about, that long TD to Kinder and that 45 yard TD pass to DD in the Cincy game that was right on his hands – to show that he actually does have the strength and accuracy to do this – but never in any consistent manner what so ever. It would be easier to take as a fan if he never hit those hard throws at all, then we’d know he just sucked.

As to 2009 I’m hoping DW will look at some of the other coaching advances he’s personally made throughout this season – I think we all agree that DW has progressed a bit with that – and thus really run an open competition for the starter’s spot. Whether it be Bill Stull winning the job, Bostick progressing enough to take it, of Sunseri wowing everyone to become the starter… whatever shakes out I’d like to know that the best guy won the job.

I do wonder though – given DW’s track record, and more importantly Bill Stull’s being the starting QB on a team that has scored more points and won more games than any PITT team in years – even pre-DW – and Stull’s very low INT ratio (plus out of his eight INTs only two gave up points on the opponent’s next possession after the turnover), it is the betters edge that Stull is the front runner going into the off season.

Comment by Reed 12.05.08 @ 4:46 am

Reed, agree w/you. Don’t really see arm strength or even mobility as glaring issues with Stull. Its all about consistency, which yes, he is lacking. I think thats partly a function of his concussion, I’ve noticed him bailing out on some throws a little more quickly after the Rutgers game. But I think its also partially an experience thing and I really believe he’ll get better with time/experience.

Comment by TJ 12.05.08 @ 7:17 am

I think you hit it on the head with Stull bailing out. His arm is strong enough when he steps into the throw, but when he throws off his back foot or simply bails, his arm alone doesn’t cut the mustard. If he eliminates happy feet and keeps his balance, his accuracy and consistency will be there.

Comment by ltl 12.05.08 @ 7:33 am

I don’t know what Stull you’re watching when you talk about arm strength and mobility not being issues. Just because you hit one deep ball to Kinder doesn’t mean you have a D1 arm. A D1 arm is what we saw against ND when Clausen was whipping long sideline out patterns all over Pitt in the first half. Stull definitely can’t make throws like that or throw a tight ball downfield.

But the arm thing isn’t the biggest problem with Stull. The college QB game is different than the pro game……..it’s much more important in college that your QB be able to scramble when necessary for a crucial first down or be able to create more time in the pocket to let receivers get open. QBs can do those things in college, whereas scrambling for time or yds in the NFL will get your head taken off.

Stull can’t move in the pocket or outside it. He’s a stiff back there. He’s just no threat to take off for an important 3 yds or to prolong a play long enough for a CB to lose a WR.

He’s a really tool-less QB. The most you can hope for with him is that he doesn’t thrown INTs and he completes one deep ball a game if Baldwin outjumps somebody……and wishing for that kind of mediocrity is depressing.

There needs to be an open competition next year!!!!!!!

Comment by ricky jackson 12.05.08 @ 9:19 am

I couldn’t disagree more. He doesn’t have a cannon and he isn’t Vince Young, but he can throw the deep outs (i.e. the 20yd out on the money last week that went right through Porter’s hands). His mobility is slightly below average, but Bostick makes Stull look like Michael Vick. He needs to develop mentally if he is going to be successful, and that is something you can improve by studying tape and taking more snaps.

Comment by SC Steve 12.05.08 @ 9:39 am

ricky jackson–IMO, open competition at QB isn’t the answer. Open competition only works if you have someone capable of performing at a level that make’s Pitt better than it is under Stull–I guess I am assuming that Stull has won this year’s “open competition.” IMO, assuming and hoping that Sunseri may eventually be capable of giving Pitt more than Stull is capable of (I think if any of the others were capable it would have happened by now) then the best we can expect is for Sunseri to be #2 at the beginning of the 2009 season and possibly supplant Stull by mid-late season as the starter. The only other alternative that would seem at all possible would be if a quality JUCO QB could be signed to an LOI this February and I have seen no discussion of that being on the coaching staff’s radar.

Comment by pitt1972 12.05.08 @ 9:51 am

Stull — no tools. Saying he moves better than Bostick is true, but it’s also a really funny left-handed compliment. How many times this year have you seen him escape the pocket when pressured and steal an important first down or scramble and throw it away to avoid a sack? That Cincy kid did things like that on every other play, or at least it felt like that.

I don’t expect a cannon arm, either. Not too many college QBs can throw like Clausen or the Stafford kid at UGA. What I would like back there is a good athlete who can make the throws and keep a defense on its heels because he’s dangerous. Stull is about as far from dangerous as you can get. No size, no scramble, very average arm and a tendency to just fold when the rush comes.

Comment by ricky jackson 12.05.08 @ 2:55 pm

Ricky,
No size? Stull is 6-3 215, how big do you want him to be. I expect him to improve and develop into more of a threat. And an average arm is good enough if he can make better decisions.

Comment by SC Steve 12.05.08 @ 3:18 pm

It seems to me that the QB’s aren’t getting a lot of love no matter who they are at Pitt. Here’s a simple solution ….. find someone that resembles a decent D-I QB. The coaching staff needs to wake up to the fact that no team becomes elite without a decent QB. Stull, Bostick, and Smith may be great kids, but they will never allow Pitt to compete against the top teams on a regular basis. What do you think our record would be if we played in the SEC or the Big 12? Pitt plain and simple needs an upgrade at QB. Wannstedt has put a lot of the pieces in place to construct a decent team, but until he recruits a stud quarterback this programs chances of cracking the top ten are slim to none.

Comment by ltl 12.05.08 @ 5:49 pm

Why the obsession with Jimmy Clausen? He threw 17 picks this year…sure he has a strong arm, but what does that get you?

Comment by AJ 12.05.08 @ 7:02 pm

First off – Clausen’s arm is extraordinary for a college QB – not the norm. But as AJ states above, that gunslinger with a great arm isn’t exactly the role model we need for PITT. Unless we are assuming that should he play for PITT his poor play automatic becomes good play – which is a real reach.

Second, I crack up at these posts that state Stull is the reason we are not a “BCS team”. I posted this elsewhere, but it suffices for this thread also…

Stull being “not the QB to lead us to the BCS” seems to be a common and recurring theme lately. While I agree we need better QB play – I find this statement rather odd. Let’s say in this season one BE loss wins the conference, as it has in most BE seasons. Also, let’s say we win this Saturday.

I won’t put the Rutgers loss on Bill Stull, not the way he was playing gangbusters before he got hurt in that game – perhaps the finest passing (74% with 289 yards in 2.5 quarters) we’ve seen from a QB in years. I will say the Cincy loss on ‘on’ him for this argument. So – the QB is responsible for ONE BE loss this year. Certainly that would be possible to reach a BCS game with that record. Hell, even with two BE losses it’s still possible in most years. Stull was responsible for one of our losses. So, saying that he’s the reason we are not going to a BCS bowl is pretty much bullshit. Quite honestly, our defense is giving up a lot of points this season (24+ per game; 57th in the NCAA) – especially in our two BE losses @ 41 ppg – so you could easily make the case that we are a better defense away from a BCS berth.

Now – saying that we are a ‘good’ QB away from being “elite” (whatever that means) is countered the same way – I’ll point out that we are also a ‘good’ defensive secondary away from being elite. After all Pike completed over 80% of his passes for 300+ yards and three TDs – and we saw what Teel did against us, hell – my eyes are STILL bleeding from watching that.

So, please… Enough with putting it all on Stull’s shoulders, it’s easy to do but not necessarily true unless you turn a blind eye to our other problems. It’s a team game and just as the credit for success has to be spread around so does the blame for defeats.

Comment by Reed 12.06.08 @ 6:20 am

Well said Reed.
I really like the point about the secondary. No aspect of our team has made me more nervous all year than our ability to cover opposing receivers.

The great thing about football is that its a total team game, and this is the most complete we’ve had in years and one of the most complete teams in the league.

That being said, we need to get better in a couple areas (QB and secondary especially) if we are going to contend nationally.

Comment by TJ 12.06.08 @ 9:00 am

There is no doubt that our secondary is seriously lacking, but even they could be helped with a QB that could keep the chains moving. If McCoy doesn’t get it done, it doesn’t get done. And yes, to become “elite” we need to upgrade the secondary, but being a one dimensional team is a real problem in even winning the weak big east.

Comment by ltl 12.06.08 @ 1:37 pm

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