Speaking of back-ups stepping up, can anyone help me understand why Greg Cross hasn’t seen the field aside from about 3 snaps? I thought for sure we would see him against ND with Stull out, but instead we saw Bostick splitting out in the Wildcat package. I wonder how many of ND’s defenders were thinking “i better keep an eye on 19.” They bring a kid in from JUCO solely for his athleticism and his ability to run the Wildcat, yet he sits on the bench week in and week out.

I have been wondering the same, Mr. Stache. You don’t just “save” someone with talent like that for the games later in the season. Is he in the doghouse for some reason? He’s been in for a total of 3 or 4 plays this season, one of which was a spectacular touchdown run in the Iowa game. I have definitely been wondering the same thing.

I thought it would be an opportunity to see Chris Jacobson. He’s had his redshirt. He should be primed to join the offense and begin what some feel will turn into an All-American lineman.

Most important, how about DB Jarred Holley from EASTON?

If they were willing to put Smith in, but not Cross, he must be in some kind of trouble…basically that means he was 4th string…why recruit a kid and waste a scholarship if he’s only 4th string? This staff makes some mysterious moves and is a little too loyal to ‘seniority’, but seems to be improving on it.

The Wildcat was effective, and I agree with the coaches’ decision to put the ball directly in McCoy’s hands. Hard to argue with that. But like stache said, if you’re splitting out Bostick why not insert Cross? If for no other reason then to give the D something else to worry about… another athlete on the field, the (unlikely if not non-existent) chance of an end-around, hell even a downfield block. Make the most out of the 11 guys out there. Cross should see at least one series a game outside of the Wildcat anyway.

Quote from the Trib-Review 10/07:

“One thing that has become abundantly clear is that the Panthers have no immediate plans to give Cross a greater role in the offense. Pitt coach Dave Wannstedt said Cross is not part of the Wildcat but was recruited as an insurance policy. If starting quarterback Bill Stull hadn’t recovered from a thumb injury that ended his 2007 season, Cross would have run a read-option package as an alternative to backups Pat Bostick and Kevan Smith in the West Coast offense.”

If fans had been paying attention to Wannstedt back during the offseason immediately after last season he said he was going to ensure we never got in the position we were in last year. Then when Cross was recruited he specifically said that we now had insurance at the QB position. What DW didn’t realize was that Cross would have so many problems with his passing game – both in understanding the system and in his accuracy.

That’s what has been keeping Cross on the bench. Bottom line is that Bostick is a better alternative for this offense if Stull goes down.

Reed,

I’ve heard the exact same things about Cross.

I’d like to see him play more too, and maybe under a coach who ran his program a little more unconventionally, he’d be in there in some capacity. Some college coaches will find a way to get a guy like that on the field.

But a few things…

First, Wannstedt runs this program more like a pro franchise in several aspects, and while it’s more conservative than some fans would probably like, I’m looking at the big picture dating back to the Cincy game last year and I can’t really argue with the results.

Second, Wannstedt is a conservative type to begin with and when faced with a season where he HAS to produce results, he’s not going to take a chance on an unknown unless he’s comfortable with it and sees evidence that it’s going to produce results.

Third, and I hate to say this, but what are we really judging Cross on at this point? With the exception of one play, Cross hasn’t set the world on fire when he’s been in there. I can’t speak to anything he does in practice, but they’re apparently seeing something that’s not giving them cause to have confidence in the kid at this point.

This absolutely does not mean the kid was a wasted signing and Cross’s status as a JUCO player means this program owes him absolutely nothing. I’m sure this has been communicated to him and I’m sure after having a year in the program, he may factor in down the road.

I hate to beat a dead horse but I remember Cross torching the Panthers defense throughout camp and I also distinctly remember Wannstedt saying how excited they are to have an athlete like Cross to run their Wildcat package. Although I do agree with you PITTinCT, its pretty tough to argue with getting the ball in McCoy’s hands. On a side note I have heard rumors that WR Toney Clemons and LB Taylor Hill from Michigan are unhappy and might be considering a transfer to Pitt. Has anyone else heard these rumors or have any information on them?

I think if pitt wasnt involved in so many close games early in the year Cross would have been given more game experience. I think DW is obviously seeing something that he is not 100% confident in allowing to throw him out there, especially in tight games which seems to be every Pitt game.

We also still have 4 games left, perhaps they are saving some special packages for when we really need it.

Stache,

Not to continue beating the dead horse either, but I can think of a few instances where we had a few guys who were reported camp legends and for whatever reason, it never translated to gamedays.

Last season, it was Aundre Wright at WR/KR/PR and Dorin Dickerson at LB (who I heard from someone who was there during practices last year looked absolutely unreal last year at LB). This year, it was Baldwin and Cross. Look how long it took them to get Baldwin actively involved in the offense.

This is one example where Wanny’s tendencies to handle this like a pro team kind of irk me and I’ll agree with those who argue that maybe they should try harder to get the talent on the field, experience be damned.

I don’t care that Baldwin didn’t know his blocking assignments or all of his routes and reads. This is college football and talent gaps in matchups are going to be greater in college than they are in the pros. If the kid was really showcasing THAT much natural talent in camp, simplify things to get him out there right away against the teams like Bowling Green and Buffalo. He doesn’t have to play every snap. Just find some situations where you get him out there on the outside, just have him run fly patterns or go routes. Line him up in the slot and run a stretch route down the middle of the field. Against teams like Buffalo or BGSU, whoever they’re covering him with isn’t going to be able to handle him all day because Baldwin’s just a better player. Look what he did against the kid that was covering him when they played USF, and I believe that corner was a redshirt senior.

That is one of the things about the college game that I’m not sure Wannstedt has grasped yet. Experience doesn’t always count as much as pure, elite talent.

anybody know the link to the website that shows shady’s highlights for heisman ?

I can see the argument for using Cross as a wide out vice Stull/Bostick in the Wildcat…does seem to make sense to put the best atheletes on the field in that situation. However, I can also see the argument for keeping a true QB on the field because it automatically changes the defensive formation. They have to respect that QB’s presense because they could shift to the shotgun or even under center.

Dear Stooche,
In response to your post of putting a player in the game when they don’t know their assignments…

Several things
This team has thrived this year due to some discipline that they lacked in the past. I believe that we are one of the least penalized teams in the nation. We saw how costly Notre Dame’s personal foul on third or fourth down was in that last game. Turned the game around for Pitt. You can’t overlook discipline.

Next, with the ability of Shady to break into the secondary on a number of runs, nothing is more important than the wide receivers ability to block in the secondary. It’s the difference between a 10 yard gain and a 40 yard touchdown.

Third, we can’t simplify the whole offense to put one player on the field. If we want to have a good team at the end of the season, we need to work on our whole offense from the start of the year. What message does DW send to his team if he places a freshman who doesn’t know his assignments in the game based solely on talent? Is it OK to not know your assignments as long as you have talent? Not a good message to send to your team.
We can’t send him in only for deep routes. This is major college football. Team’s scout the heck out of eachother. You can’t send a guy deep every play. This is part of the reason he showed up just a few times in the first games. Teams start to recognize we’re sending him deep.

We saw the results of Baldwin lining up incorrectly in the ND game. I’m almost 100% sure that he’s coached to line up at the top of the numbers at least to leave room for the fade ball. On 2nd and 3rd down, when he ran the fade, he left no room to catch the ball. On 4th he ligned up slightly tighter after the timeout with the coaches, and the ball was underthrown so he had a little more room. Little mental errors translate into big errors for the team.

This is one of the things of the college game that I believe Wannstedt is dead on. Discipline and assignment football come first. The assignments are made to put the best playmakers in positions to make the best plays. its that simple.

On a final note, that senior for usf was supposed to cover the deep third and blew his assignment. USF looked like a pretty undisciplined team that night. USF looks like a team that is rediculously talented, maybe they should look to the assignment sound football we’ve been playing this season.

Stoosh,
You are flat out wrong. The biggest adjustment to the college level is the mental side of the game. Yes, talent wins football games, but only if talent does the right things. Talent doing the wrong thing, i.e. missing a block is about as good as putting a 12 year old on the field. Maybe someone accidentally tricks over the kid. DW has brought Baldwin along perfectly. He was eased into the situation and its working out nicely. He wasn’t in early on because he didn’t know who too block and routes to run. Now that he has learned the offense he is making big plays. Your comments about Dickerson and Aundre Wright. If you watched any games you would know Dickerson was not unreal at LB. Maybe in practice when he knew the other team inside and out or against a scout team. But in games he often looked out of place, and confused. And having played linebacker, I know that being in placed is the most important thing. If you aren’t in your gap and there is a good back…bam 80 yard TD. Dickerson was not unreal at the position and this is why he moved once again to TE. It isn’t because there was unreal talent there, but because he didn’t fit the position. As far as Aundre Wright goes, maybe the kid can catch punts and this is why he wasn’t at PR. At KR there was Lowell Robinson, who was pretty good back there and TJ Porter and Stephens-Howling saw some time I think. That is a lot of talent and to say that Wright deserved to be there over any of them is ludicrous. Also, he obsviously wasn’t ready at WR or not talented enough and still isn’t. There are a lot of good players at the position and some people aren’t going to see the field as much. Thats the nature of football. All of these guys are on scholarship and talented. The ones who put the work in to learn the system want to be on the field and deserve to. Yes talent is big b/c it allows you to recover if you misread or make mistakes, but when your mistake is a wrong route, or a missed block, all of the talent in the world can’t make up for that. Let the kids learn this system and then they’ll play. I really can’t see what your complaining about b/c it has worked out well for all these kids

Another excellent quote from the Trib article:
$”You’d all fire me – and I should be fired – if we came out of a game, and McCoy doesn’t get as many touches as he can.” – Cavanaugh

@snala McCoy’s highlight reel/publicity package can be found at link to leseanmccoy25.com

Anyways, regarding Cross, give the coaches some credit. They aren’t complete idiots, or else they wouldn’t have a job. If they thought Cross was going to light up defenses, they’d put him in.

We’ve seen him for a whopping 4 plays. He had 3 carries for 17, 5, and 3 yards, respectively. All of these plays were designed runs. On the one play where he was asked to throw the ball, he looked absolutely clueless. He stood around for way too long and ran backwards under pressure, eventually being sacked for a 10 yard loss.

From his recruitment scouting report:
“He is creative, has a strong arm and seems to keep his eyes downfield when flushed from the pocket. His decision making is a concern as he needs to take better care of the ball.”
Being “creative” doesn’t work well with bad decision making.

This is going to sound very mean, but I’m guessing that his intelligence contributed to him attending community college.

I think the important thing to realize is that people are arguing about who is getting the touches, yet talented player are getting the touches every down. This speaks volumes of what Wanny has done in recruiting. The fact that the backups are stepping up also speaks volumes to this as well. Never under Harris were we worried that talented guys weren’t on the field, there was simply nobody to challenge them. The fact of the matter is: Baldwin, Porter, Dickerson, McCoy, Cross, Stephens-Howling, Wright, Collins, Turner, Kinder, and many other backups we haven’t even seen (such as Harris or Collier at RB) all can be dangerous with the ball and all need touches. However, it can only be spread so many ways. McCoy needs a majority of touches because he may be the best player in college football right now with the ball in his hands. Worrying over who is getting and who isn’t getting touches is always going to leave someone out, especially when someone like McCoy is involved. I think we need to be happy about this issue rather than complaining.

What a difference in the tone and substance of this conversation.

If you have to play or prefer to play backups, for whatever reason, its not good. It is usually one of 2:

– You inaccurately evaluated the talent of the starters

– Injuries

The point of emphasis then would be how do you handle the respective situation and how do the players respond.

This season, thus far, Dave has done OK at evaluating talent, but not great. You need your playmakers on the field, and Dave does not do enough IMHO (see McCoy and Howling sharing carries, Baldwin getting less playing time then freaking McGee), and Berry still returning kicks.

On one hand, Berry drops too many punts to be back there returning them.

On the other hand, McCoy definitely needs a rest during games. You can’t take a beating at running back like that all game and all season. If we want him at full force for the final four games, I’d say the coaches have done a great job mixing him and Stevens-Howling.

Greg,
Yes, your right if you have to play backups it can mean possibly injuries. And this has happened to the Panthers but some positions (O-line, D-line) have had guys step in and play great. This shows there is talent. But, thats about the only thing your right on. Competition for jobs does not mean you inaccurately evaluated talent. In fact I think that is a completely inaccurate statement. The season is long and a lot of things change. For one, young guys often develop as the season goes on. Look at Baldwin, you can argue all you want that he didn’t play enough early but the fact of the matter is he didn’t know his stuff before. Now that he does, his playing time is skyrocketing as is his production. He was brought along nicely, you don’t rush guys into positions. Second, dealing with rotating players. In football guys playing every snap is a disadvantage, its a physical game and they can wear down towards the end. It is a luxury to have depth to run people in and out. This is why McCoy and Howling sharing carries is a good thing (and is why at every school wide receivers are rotated). If you watched last weeks game, McCoy came out in the one overtime, because he was dead tired. Howlings has been productive and always does an excellent job. Yes, McCoy is more talented but having a fresh McCoy at the end of games is so valuable. The coaches have done an excellent job splitting the time between these guys. (give mccoy 40 touches a game and watch the injuries pile up and productivity drop). Wanny sits at practice every day, watches the games live, and then probably another 5 times on tape. I hardly think that we, the general public, can do a better job of evaluating his talent and how to use it by simply watching their games on TV or at the stadium. By the way…Berry was not still returning kicks last week if you saw the game. And, Baldwin now plays more snaps then McGee.

Boy, the above is some of the best Internet football discussion I’ve read in years.

All I’ll say is that I’ll take the word of coaches who see these kids day in and day out and know thier skills and weaknesses, and emotional states, before I’ll pass judgement myself on who should or shouldn’t be playing.

Of all the different football issues to debate this one always amazes me as we fans know literally nothing compared to the coaching staff. A TOTAL team effort wins games way more often that an individual player does, but a singular player can lose a game on one play. They know who they want in there and I’ll accept their judgement,

The huge difference between this PITT team and others preceding it has been the depth. We started to see it last year on the DL, now we are seeing it across the board in numerous areas – and it is contributing to our style of football and getting us wins. Think about it – almost every game this year we’ve come from a deficit and slowly chipped away to win in the end. Granted great teams blow out other teams (sometimes) but very good teams are consistent in how they win, and we are getting there. That is a result of numerous aspects of DW’s coaching emphasis coming together… recruiting, conditioning, assignment security and depth. This is specifically what he recruited specific players for, how he told us it would unfold and we are seeing the results.

Its always tough to tell if there are guys who should/could be playing but aren’t unless you’re on the team and in the locker room, but its difficult to complain if the team is putting up W’s.

It seems like Wanny has done a pretty good job of evaluating and using the talent he’s got. I think everyone would like to see Cross used a bit more since we’ve seen flashes of his brilliance on the few plays that he’s been in there, but they’ve been winning games without him.

The two-headed monster of Stephens-Howling and McCoy is a huge advantage for this team. I absolutely cannot emphasize that enough. Shady is getting plenty of carries and Stephens-Howling has played very well also. He provides a change of pace and does good things for the team. Most importantly, he gives LeSean a rest though, so when we need Shady to rip a huge run in the 4th OT on the road to set up a game-winner, he has the fresh legs to get it done.

I know I am echoing a lot of what was said above, but I also believe the coaches have done a great job bringing Baldwin along. He is playing more and more every week, and last week we go to him 3 times in a row in a crucial situation (not only crucial for that game, but for the season and the direction of the program). This just demonstrates that the coaches know how talented he is, but also shows that they wanted to bring him along mentally and make sure that they weren’t setting him up for failure by throwing him in there before he knew what he was doing.

So with regards to evaluating and using talent, I think this staff has done a pretty admirable job so far. Hopefully they can keep it up, we’ll see.

Hail to Pitt.

I have the same question Stache asked as if anyone knows of rumors of the 2 Michigan kids transferring to Pitt or if anyone knows if Corey Brown or Dorian Bell that verballed to Ohio State from the WPIAL are thinking of changing their minds. If anyone who reads this is in school with these kids. THEY SHOULD BE IN THEIR EAR to change their minds…… There’s no way Ohio State should be grabbing recruits from our area.