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September 30, 2008

Looking to Tampa

Filed under: Coaches,Football,Opponent(s),Wannstedt — Chas @ 1:57 pm

I’m not going to dwell on the Syracuse game. I mean it. If you want to see some good summation, check out Zeise’s “Good, Bad, Ugly.” from yesterday. Not much more needs to be added by me on that.

Survive and advance has been what we’ve seen from PItt. The players aren’t denying it, but they aren’t apologizing for it either.

And as Pitt middle linebacker Scott McKillop describes it, the Panthers would be able to wipe away some of the negative vibes that have surrounded the program since losing the season opener to Bowling Green and struggling to beat mediocre teams in each of their past three games.

“Whatever it looked like, whatever people think about it, whatever we did or didn’t do right — we won the game and now we are 3-1 and on a little bit of a roll,” McKillop said.

“Now we go to find out where we stand — South Florida is the measuring stick for the rest of the conference. They are a great team and they’ve been rolling this year.

“It has been a long time since we got a chance to play on national television with something on the line and we need to capitalize on it — we need to show that we’re a good team, that we can play with good teams and beat them.”

You know, he’s right. In terms of showing that, rather than just being a spoiler or that Pitt was “making progress,” it has been a while before a national TV audience. You would have to go back to the Rutgers game of 2006 for the last nationally broadcast game where Pitt had a chance to show people that they weren’t a pretender. Pitt was 6-1 and Rutgers was 6-0. One of those teams was going to turn out to be a fake. It was Pitt as that was the 1st of 5 straight losses to doom the season.

Now it’s the first real test and it will be for all to see. Three wins so far. A good chance none of the teams Pitt has beaten will finish above .500, so that has held to the typical standards. The only teams Pitt has beaten that finished better than 6-6 have been Cinci (in ’06 and ’07) and WVU (’07). 3-16 in Wannstedt’s tenure (and the jury is still out on whether BGSU gets put in that group). Thursday night games have been a flop for Pitt — period.

The Panthers are hoping to reverse a disturbing trend when they play the Bulls at 7:30 p.m. Thursday at Raymond James Stadium. Pitt won four of its first five games on ESPN’s Thursday night package — including a 21-17 victory over Miami in 1997 — but has lost eight of its past nine. The exception was a 16-13 victory over West Virginia in 2004, which helped clinch a share of the Big East title and, ultimately, a BCS bowl.

Wannstedt is 0-3 on Thursdays. Not that he’s worried — about himself?

“I’ve been around these short weeks,” Wannstedt said.

“Every year when I was with the Cowboys, I think four years when I was with the Bears and three years when I was with the Dolphins, we played on Thursday — Thanksgiving — and one thing that I think helps you more than anything else is what you do the week before.

So pulling out a win against a really bad team means, what?

“If you do well the week before, if you look back, teams usually on a short practice, guys aren’t as sore, guys are into it and guys are excited to go out and play again.

“So the win [against Syracuse] will definitely give us a chance to prepare as best we can in three days.”

I suppose from an attitude standpoint since they came away with a win it will.

Guess what? Pitt needs to run the ball.

Wannstedt is correct in stating that the running game has served as a great indicator of how Pitt fares. Over the past 16 games, dating to the start of the 2007 season, Pitt is 8-5 when it runs for 100 or more yards, 3-2 when it runs for 150-plus yards and 2-0 when it surpasses the 200-yard mark. The Panthers are 0-3 when held to less than 100 yards.

“For us to win games, we’ve got to run the ball,” Wannstedt said, “or it won’t happen.”

Well considering the QB situation over the last 16 games, yes, it would be vital. In those same games, the Pitt QBs have thrown for under 200 yards in 12 of the 16 games (5-7 record) and exceeded 200 yards 4 times (1-3 record). Pitt hasn’t had a 300+ passing game since Palko graduated. Say what you will, but this is really a Wannstedt/Cavanaugh team with those passing numbers.

Well, at least there are no mousetraps this week.

“If you need a theme to get pumped for this week’s game, you might as well not show up,” Pitt tailback LaRod Stephens-Howling said. “Everybody better be ready to play. We know it’s going to be a tough game. And we have to be ready. We know it’s going to be a great atmosphere for them, being at home, and their fans are real rowdy. But we have a pretty much veteran team, so we’ll be ready for that.

“This is a big game for us. We knew that, starting last week, every game is for the Big East championship, so that’s going to continue with every game. Every one is for the Big East championship from now on out. [South Florida] is one of the top teams in the Big East that everybody is talking about right now, so it’s definitely another big statement game for us.”

Although the players know this a very big game and aren’t afraid to say it, Wannstedt has tried to downplay the magnitude of the game. He said the Panthers are going to treat it like any other game.

Sure. It’s just your typical Thursday night road game on ESPN against the #10 team in the country. Nothing different there compared to all the other games played this season. He did have to answer questions at the weekly press conference about whether this team “has turned the corner.”

“I hope. We’ll find out. This will be a great opportunity this week. This will test us in areas where we haven’t been tested — the atmosphere, the talent — a lot of different factors.”

So, this is a big game.

When the question turned to Bill Stull’s struggles. Guess what theme Coach Wannstedt sticks with?

“Billy has struggled a little bit on some of those short passes and I think that’s because he’s just anxious to get those guys the ball when they’re open. That’s a little bit of inexperience but as I’ve said many times before, he’s only making his fifth start. He’ll improve every game.”

That’s funny. Most people watching Stull thinks it’s because his footwork has been shoddy. Dancing about, throwing off the back foot, and generally not stepping into his throws. Maybe he is forgetting, maybe he just doesn’t think he has room with the O-line. Whatever, I am not buying the “inexperience” excuse.

Before the season, it was how Stull was the best kept secret in the Big East and would surprise people. He struggles and it’s inexperience.

I like Stull. I think he’s the best option at starting QB. The fact is, though, he hasn’t been very good. If it’s “inexperience” as Wannstedt puts it — despite being a redshirt junior and having been in the system all this time — then that is one more issue with offensive coordinator Matt Cavanaugh’s development of QBs. And that sure doesn’t bode well with those that follow Stull.

Wannstedt also said that LB Shane Murray saw action in about 15 plays versus Syracuse and could see more on Thursday. Right guard Joe Thomas has a turned right ankle, but should be available — if not starting on Thursday.

DPJ of Cat Basket was at the press conference and he reports that Wannstedt was a little more critical of Stull’s performance than the transcribed quote indicated. He was not inspired.

Also this week, the subject of Jonathan Baldwin and Lucas Nix was brought up. Dave said that it was unfair to the older guys like Joe Thomas to have them out of the game for a freshman. He also cited inexperience and mistakes as reasons of why they could not play. Luckily someone in the audience pointed out that Baldwin caught the 2 point conversion pass and almost broke a screen pass on a 3rd and forever into a first down. The only response Dave Wannstedt had for that was that we were on a 3rd down and wanted to do a safe play where we would not lose any yardage. I wish someone would have pointed out the continual bad play of Turner and asked about that, unfortunately we were left with a non-answer.

The vibe from this press conference really gives off the impression that Wannstedt knows what our limitations are, but he refuses to address and change to fix those weaknesses. I really don’t think Greg Cross will get any significant playing time, and neither will Baldwin or Nix. I’m also afraid that this team is not being given any motivation to go out and upset this team. If the team does not believe we can win, then there is no way we will win. We need to come out angry and play like it is us against the world just as we did last year vs WVU. I just hope that on Friday morning there are a ton of comments telling me that I was wrong.

Are you kidding me? Unfair to older guys? What happened to the best players play? Oh, but they might make a mistake. Ugh.

This from ESPN.com Big East writer Brian Bennett says more of what we already knew.

Mark from The Burgh writes: Why do you think Wannstache is so reluctant to use his young talent that he is just leaving on the shelf, it’s like you have to be a junior or older to play or I guess a redshirt sophomore? How many games do you think the Panthers can win? They are winning in some close games that has to be good for something I would think.

Brian Bennett: Wannstedt’s reliance on veteran players is a reflection of his conservative nature and his background as an NFL guy. I thought his comments on the Big East coaches’ teleconference Monday were telling, when he basically said that in big games the first thing he looks at is how to avoid mistakes that will lose the game. That’s the mentality. The other thing to note, at least this year, is that the Panthers haven’t had any breathers. Every single game has been life or death in the second half, even Syracuse. It’s hard to put young players in those spots. As far as how many they can win, I’d say right now they’d be favored in three more games this year (Navy, Rutgers, Louisville) with two more games looking like toss-ups (at Notre Dame, at Cincinnati). Plus, they have the rematch with West Virginia at home. So my original prediction of eight wins is still very possible if they continue to improve.

[Emphasis added.]

I’m not encouraged about Thursday night.





The reluctance to play Baldwin is fucking mind-boggling. The kid comes out against Syracuse and basically wins the game by getting so many yards on that screen pass. If it wasn’t for that play, then Pitt punts on 4th down and is still down 11 points going into the 4th quarter without the ball. Instead Baldwin catches a screen pass (a bubble screen that Oderick Turner, mind you, has dropped at least a half a dozen times including tipping it to a Michigan State corner last year that led to a pick six) breaks a tackle as soon as he catches it and picks up 9.5 yards. Pitt goes for the 4th down on the next play, converts and then Shady breaks a 35 yard run on the next play to put Pitt in scoring position going into the 4th.

Pitt then scores and throws a terrible fade to Baldwin on the two-point which he converts. What more can the fucking kid do to earn playing time? He basically saved the game. Not to mention, other than Kinder in 2 out of the 3 games and TJ Porter against Buffalo, our receivers have been beyond terrible. Baldwin looks like a MAN AMONG BOYS and he is only a freshman. Wannstache, I love you man, but get the kid on the field. O’Derrick Turner can’t hold Baldwin’s jock. Play the kid, PLEASE!

Comment by Omar 09.30.08 @ 2:20 pm

My bad, Pitt would have been down 8 going into the 4th quarter if not for Baldwin’s screen pass, not 11.

Comment by Omar 09.30.08 @ 2:29 pm

It is ABSOLUTELY mind boggling. Turner has unfortunately just not gotten it done- period. We can’t be waiting all year for him to step it up. He’s had his chance to be the star and he just hasn’t taken advantage of it. He can still be a significant part of the offense, but it is WAY past due on getting Baldwin in there and seeing what he can do. That conversion was all him. Not getting the ball to him a half-dozen times per game, at least, is completely insane.

It is so painfully obvious that when the coaches unleash these guys, good things happen- WHY WON’T THEY DO IT MORE OFTEN??? They need to have faith in these guys and let them play.

FYI: the ESPN Big East blog is saying George Selvie is questionable for Thurs:
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/bigeast/0-1-213/Big-East-lunchtime-links–Selvie-questionable.html
Sure wouldn’t hurt…

Comment by Dan35 09.30.08 @ 2:43 pm

What is also disconcerting is the fact that Wannstache and Cav. gave the ball to McCoy seemingly every down last year and even this year when he has fumbled in every game except Syracuse. Baldwin is every bit as much of a star and weapon as McCoy yet these bozos refuse to use him. What is with the double standard? Is it because you actually have to throw the ball to get it to Baldwin? That is definitely the issue.

If you don’t want to throw it to him, then run a reverse or something. The kid is a man-child and needs touches. He is one of the biggest weapons on the team. I don’t understand why they refuse to use him. Please guys, get Baldwin involved. He is a game breaker in the same way McCoy is.

Comment by Omar 09.30.08 @ 2:49 pm

My point is McCoy is a true sophmore and they don’t complain about his inexperience. These guys have an aversion to throwing the football. Plain and simple.

Comment by Omar 09.30.08 @ 2:50 pm

It is puzzling as to the reluctance to put him in, his redshirt is gone so use him! Luc Nix also needs to see more time. DW keeps getting asked about these two and the answer never seems to change. Who gives a shit about the older guys feelings if they arent the best player at their position?

Comment by Rex 09.30.08 @ 2:53 pm

I agree. Also we cant be predictable everytime Baldwin is on the field that we send him on a GO route.
I wish Stull could throw the long ball better b/c it is open every game.
South Florida is not that good. We can win this game. last year we were there despite the numerous pick 6’s and turnovers. i expect another tough game that we squeak out. If the we pass on first down and stay aggressive I beleive we can win with ease but Cav wont be aggressive.

This is our game and our Big East to lose.

Hail to Pitt

Comment by cdmoore25 09.30.08 @ 2:54 pm

The beauty of it is Baldwin doesn’t just need to run go routes. Run a slant or something. I’d love to see a 5’8″ corner try to arm tackle the kid. Look at him. He is a freak. If he had gotten more playing time, then he may have broken that screen for a TD. Did you see his acceleration after two steps. The kid has sprinters speed and he is 6’6″ tall.

If McCoy gets the ball 25 times a game as a freshman, then there is no earthly reason why Baldwin shouldn’t get at least 4-5 touches a game. Baldwin simply can’t do that much damage as a receiver. If he isn’t running the right route, then Stull shouldn’t throw it to him. Plus, Baldwin is so talented he can probably recover from running the wrong route. Have him run simple routes. Why they don’t make the plays easy for gamebreakers and instead make them learn complicated shit is not smart! He needs to play starting now!

Comment by Omar 09.30.08 @ 3:01 pm

Sure it would be nice to get Baldwin on the field because I agree turner has been less than impressive. As far as Nix goes for all of you wanting to put in a true freshman at tackle you are nuts. I realize he is going to be a big time player but Offensive line is one position where you really need to adjust to the college game and learn every intricacy of the offense. I realize that Thomas’s play as been inconsistent at best but come on. Anyone who has ever played football in their life knows that a true freshman on the line is a bad thing. Also consider this: Wannstedt got McCoy into the offense pretty quickly last year once he knew the offense. He was used extensively. So I don’t know that Wannstedt is necessarily just holding Baldwin out to hold him out. Maybe Baldwin really has no clue what he is doing out there besides a few set plays. There is a lot to learn when you start college in a brand new offense not to mention a new speed of the game. Sure these guys may be game breakers but maybe they aren’t quite there yet.

Comment by Jimbbb 09.30.08 @ 3:04 pm

Run easier fucking plays then. I’m sorry but there is no excuse for not having that kid on the field almost every play. Have Kinder and Porter run the complicated routes and let Baldwin run the easy ones. I hate to say this, but Turner has stunk up the joint for a year and a half and has the build of Baldwin’s sister.

Why bury a kid because he doesn’t know how to run some stupid zig-zag route when he doesn’t need it to get open. Remember he is 6’6″ tall, he can probably catch all of Stull’s high and wobbly throws. Stull can’t really make that many throws, so why not teach him what Stull can throw and let him play. I’m sorry no excuse.

You don’t bury Randy Moss or T.O. because they can’t learn a few routes. Adapt the playbook to fit the talent.

Comment by Omar 09.30.08 @ 3:10 pm

By the way, McCoy is effing awesome and I love the kid, but he can’t pick up a blitz to save his life. He still plays almost every series.

Comment by Omar 09.30.08 @ 3:13 pm

Guys
Look at it this way – Wanny is 0 and 12 against anybody not named Cincy or WVU remaining on the schedule…in his last 12 games against those teams:

Rutgers: 0-3 (2005, 2006, 2007)
Louisville: 0-3 (2005, 2006, 2007)
USF: 0-2 (2006, 2007)
UCONN: 0-2 (2006, 2007)
Navy: 0-1 (2007)
ND: 0-1 (2005)

Pretty crappy if you ask me. Don’t believe for a second Pitt’s gonna win this one Thurs nite.

Comment by PPF 09.30.08 @ 3:16 pm

PPF, the beauty of it is except for 4 games (Louisville in 05 & 06, UCONN in 07 and ND in 05) every one of those games was winnable.

Don’t read too much into that record. It seems like this team got beat early and realized they don’t like to lose. If they can muddle through the first quarter without getting killed, then they may pull it off.

Comment by Omar 09.30.08 @ 3:20 pm

they have adapted the playbook probably which may be why all you see Baldwin run is streaks or screens…he also gets his but kicked in press coverage
i agree with the turner assessment

Comment by Jimbbb 09.30.08 @ 3:31 pm

give him some time

Comment by Jimbbb 09.30.08 @ 3:31 pm

that was the first screen they ever ran with him.

Comment by Omar 09.30.08 @ 3:38 pm

Omar
Not sure i agree. The 2005 Rutgers game – we trailed like 29-0 at halftime. We did manage to slightly come back but then Wanny called the worst play in Pitt history outside of the Slide – the infamous “Punt Pass” play with Graeselle – that was “there”….uh yeah…right. It was “there” alright, Wanny…right there. Right there for RU to take home a win when they couldn’t stop the Palko to Strong passing combo right down the field. Of course, McGlynn’s multiple off-sides penalties didn’t help either on the way down the field.

Comment by PPF 09.30.08 @ 3:41 pm

We had a chance to tie the game at the end. I think that qualifies as close, if not winnable. My point is it wasn’t a blowout.

Comment by Omar 09.30.08 @ 3:53 pm

Ah, the coach’s paradox. Do you play only your best players and win (making all the players, fans, alumni, administration, etc. happy) or do you play those who “deserve” to play because of seniority or popularity with the coach, thereby losing and make mostly everyone unhappy? Wanny, the nice guy, the great recruiter, consistently chooses the latter. Baldwin is only one example. Thomas, DiCiccio, Stull are others. Inexperience or caution are just excuses. Does Ohio State have a problem playing Pryor? Baldwin will sit for a couple years, be a superstar for one year, then turn pro. Baldwin could score on every pass and Turner drop every one, but Turner would start.

Comment by 66Goat 09.30.08 @ 5:36 pm

Forget the whole “he hasn’t learned the routes” excuse. That’s all it is- a BS excuse by the coaches. I just don’t buy it.

Julio Jones of Alabama (true freshman) leads #2 Alabama through 4 games with 16 receptions for 226 yards and 4 touchdowns- including playing all game AT Georgia- a nationally televised road game in front of 80,000 hostile fans. DW and Cav must sit around saying “that kid must be really smart…”

Comment by Dan35 09.30.08 @ 5:38 pm

Turner hasn’t made one play all year. He just doesn’t deserve to play any more. It’s that simple.

Comment by Omar 09.30.08 @ 5:39 pm

I don’t know why everyone is all upset about the performance of PITT every week. As they have shown since the first game, they are not the best team in the Big East. Yes, the wins have been ugly, but they are wins. While I believe they should be a top 25 team, the fact is they aren’t. But I will say they are slowly showing improvement and they still are 3-1. I look at them keeping it close with USF this week, possibly even pulling off the upset. As for Baldwin and Nix, I don’t agree with it, but Nix has said himself before the season began that he could use another season to get ready before starting every game. If the kid will admit that, its apparent to me that he lacks the confidence to start regularly.

Comment by Justin 09.30.08 @ 6:13 pm

Baldwin a star? Based on what? His recruiting hype? A man-child? Half the time he can’t get off of the line because those “5’8 dbs” are jamming him. Get a clue people.

Comment by baldwin4heisman 09.30.08 @ 6:19 pm

Nonsense. The kid makes plays. Two passes thrown his way that weren’t go routes that our quarterback can’t keep in bounds and two plays that help Pitt win. Bullshit. T.O. gets jammed at the line once in a while, should he ride the pine too. Maybe if the kid played more, he would learn to use his muscle to throw the DB to the ground.

O’Derrick Turner may not get jammed at the line, but he can’t catch. Baldwin is the most talented receiver on the team. Get him the ball!

Comment by Omar 09.30.08 @ 7:43 pm

Also, on those go routes, Baldwin was open. Stull can’t make that throw right now.

Comment by Omar 09.30.08 @ 7:44 pm

No one has answered why Shady McCoy played all of last year and Baldwin rides the pine this year?

Comment by Omar 09.30.08 @ 7:45 pm

The problem with playing young kids, as head coach my responsibility is to this team. … There’s a fine line between developing players and winning games.” -Dave Wannstedt talking about Jonathan Baldwin.

Dave the kid gives you the best chance to win the fucking game. Gorman agrees with me in his blog that the play of the game was Baldwin getting those yards on 3rd and long. He is one of your gamebreakers, please get him in on the field! Are you telling me that Cedric McGee deserves to be in the game over Baldwin. Goodness, McGee doesn’t even deserve to be in the game over TJ Porter. This teams two most productive receivers are Porter and Kinder. TJ barely plays.

I cannot with good conscience watch O’Derrick Turner out there over any of the aforementioned kids. His next big play will be his first this season. He doesn’t help us win and he doesn’t deserve to be on the field.

Comment by Omar 09.30.08 @ 8:07 pm

What are the chances Pitt players and coaches play down to their opponents? We’ve done it for years. What if Thursday, we play up to our opponent?

Does anyone buy into my optimism? I don’t. God help us.

Comment by Hail2Pitt 09.30.08 @ 8:40 pm

66 Goat you said: “Thomas, DiCiccio, Stull are others.”

If you mean to tell me that you think Stull plays because he is a favorite you are delusional. Who would you want to be starting QB? Bostick? Please, slow release, slow feet, throws lots of picks. Kevan Smith? Terrible, Greg Cross? Zero experience and I’m not sure he can throw the ball. Stull is progressing nicely and is clearly smart. AND HE TAKES CARE OF THE BALL, TURNOVERS LOOSE FOOTBALL GAMES Also, Decico plays because Fields clearly can’t take the job. They want to hand it to him but what does he do? Blows coverage against Buffalo for a TD, completely puts a wus hit on Shonne Greene without wrapping up that leads to a big run, gets burnt for a touchdown against Syracuse. That is why Decico still plays.

Also, I agree with Baldwin4Heisman. Every person on this board bases wanting Baldwin to play on the kids hype in high school. Believe it or not the coaches want jobs and want to win and will put in guys they feel confident with. I can’t understand why 90% of Pitt fans can’t understand that some players may not be ready. College football is a big adjustment mentally and physically. How many hyped players develop into nothing? Many each year. So just let him adjust and develop.

Comment by Billy West 09.30.08 @ 8:52 pm

Pff, I get your point and not to nitpick but Wanny did beat USF in his first year with the Panthers at Heinz Field.

I live in Tampa, and I mentioned this in the game chat. USF’s pretty overrated. They’re basically the team Wannstache beat by two TDs in 05, the difference is Matt Grothe. Take away Grothe, and the Bulls are just an above average defensive team that has a hard time scoring on offense.

And that’s a compliment to Matt Grothe. The guy’s a great athlete and plays hard all the time. Even when USF is down by a lot, he plays his ass off. He is one hell of a competitor and one tough man to beat.

But USF’s not a national power. They don’t recruit well (let’s face it, they stumbled upon Grothe by accident basically). The teams that stay at the top of the college football world are the ones that can recruit consistently (well, Pitt can recruit but it’s negated by Wanny being the coach, but you get the point).

USF is basically just a team on a decent run, which isn’t bad since they’ve only been around 12 years as a football team.

And oh yeah, we’ll probably lose Thursday night.

Comment by Jimbo Covert's my Dad 09.30.08 @ 8:59 pm

Billy West, I am basing my desire to see Baldwin play on his two plays on Saturday. Before Saturday I never posted once about him needing more playing time. After watching him save the season in the third quarter I think the kid deserves to be out there. The kids in front of him are not doing anything that warrants their playing in front of him. Turner just does not have the desire to be a great player. Porter and McGee are solid, very solid in Porter’s case, receivers and should be playing. But Baldwin has something that nobody on the team has and that is big play ability. Let him play.

Comment by Omar 09.30.08 @ 9:49 pm

Um, for all those doubting Baldwin…why is it that every other WR recruit he was compared to are now staring for their team (Green, Jones, etc)? It seems like we are the only team in the country not to play our freshman. If you’re in the Pittsburgh area and want to see what the so called “hype” is about, go to ON DEMAND and watch the Big 33 game last year. The man absolutely torched every cornerback there (including Ohio State Commits. So please, stop making fucking excuses for the coaches.

Comment by BBallSeason Yet? 09.30.08 @ 10:42 pm

Heck, even if you don’t trust Baldwin or think he’s over-hyped, McGee should still be getting a lot more playing time than Oderick Turner.

Comment by Jeff 09.30.08 @ 10:43 pm

All the coaches have to do is give Baldwin a shot, make the kid prove it on the field. Turner gets multiple chances and doesnt capitalize on it. Every deep ball or fade route seems to go to Turner. The first decent fade that went to Baldwin this year, he not only caught, but adjusted to a poorly thrown ball. Lastly, Stull seems to be missing guys high, low, left and right, and i think the best thing for that is to give him a big target to throw to like Baldwin.

Comment by Herm 10.01.08 @ 2:44 am

Dave has a learning disability, its been evident the last 4 seasons.

The USF coach gets off by making our coaching staff look stupid (fake punts, no adjustment by us).

Look for this game to be a comedy of errors by our coaching staff!

Wanny will play field position and we will lose by 21 plus points, of course turnovers will be the problem!

Comment by Mike 10.01.08 @ 6:06 am

All this complaining and us fans never, ever see what is happening in practice and in meeting rooms during camp and the week between games. Everyone who thought Baldwin was going to be a starter from Day One raise your hands please…. C’mon – you know you did.

We crow about McCoy and LSH being good RBs and relish their big yardage runs – but take a real good look at how that actually happens. After the initial burst through the line (or even getting to the line or around the end) it’s dependent on WR blocking. Now go back and watch Baldwin looking around and wondering what he’s supposed to be doing on those plays.

Successful plays don’t happen in a vacuum, and while I want to see Baldwin replace Turner – you can’t deny Turner’s ability to block downfield – and ruin the correct routes to draw his man away for the RB’s action. An offensive play is draw for 11 players to execute well.

Why are we surprised that this is happening (Baldwin being gradually broken in at WR) when we heard repeatedly during camp that he still had a long way to go to be a full time player? It’s not like it was a secret folks, DW, Cav and every beat writer said it again and again – and it’s understandable when you realize that Baldwin played zero at WR during HS. He just doesn’t have the knowledge needed to have high effectiveness on every play.

He is getting more playing time each game, and will get more in the future, starting Thursday night I think, but IMO this situation is going just about the way I thought it would going into the season.

As to getting Nix more playing time – I re-watch these games and I think Joe Thomas has been designated the OL Whipping Boy for 2008. His play has been pretty good actually, and the sports reporters tend to agree with this – along with the rest of the OL. For those fans who want Lucas Nix to replace Thomas on Thursday night, and were jumping up and down when Thomas got hurt, be very careful what you wish for. Putting a untested rookie up against arguabally the best Defensive Lineman in college is a recipe for disaster.

Comment by Reed 10.01.08 @ 7:28 am

^^^^ Obviously I meant “run the correct routes”… whan I typed this above:

“you can’t deny Turner’s ability to block downfield – and ruin the correct routes to draw his man away for the RB’s action.”

Comment by Reed 10.01.08 @ 7:34 am

To Billy West:
Your points are well taken. It appears to some of us that in some cases the best athletes are not on the field. They make mistakes because, perhaps, the schemes are too complicated, they are not coached up, they are not given any time to play, the coaches don’t spend enough time with them, whatever. The safer players don’t make so many mistakes and are easier to coach, but they physically can’t make the plays against the better competition. So we beat the worst teams by a point or so and get clobbered by the better teams. And, we are always one hurt thumb away from disaster.

Comment by 66Goat 10.01.08 @ 7:47 am

Chas quoted …”I thought his comments on the Big East coaches’ teleconference Monday were telling, when he basically said that in big games the first thing he looks at is how to avoid mistakes that will lose the game. That’s the mentality. The other thing to note, at least this year, is that the Panthers haven’t had any breathers. Every single game has been life or death in the second half, even Syracuse. ”

Is any one surprised that DW coaches this way given our playing history over the last three years? Think back to two of our more disappointing losses over the recent past. Ray Rice breaks a long run to swing the game against Rutgers in 2006 and Grothe breaks an 80 yard run to open the second half and the Bulls go on to win in 2007.

Those types of plays are what DW is preaching to avoid, and you avoid them by trying to make sure you have personnel on the field who know their responsibilities, are in the right place and can execute. It’s not always the most athletic players that can do that.

As to switching personnel during the last game (i.e. getting Cross some series), look at what the PITT offense did from the beginning of the second quarter until the end of the game: We strung together six (6) scoring drives in a row and didn’t have to punt once. In those drives we ran series of 13, 10, 10, 11, 6 and 8 plays to burn up the clock. These resulted in 26 points and the come from behind win.

At what point during those three quarters would you shift your offense away from what was being successful to put in a QB and a formation that was untested?

DW and Cav did exactly the right things on offense to win that game last week.

Comment by Reed 10.01.08 @ 7:56 am

By definition, DW had the safest players on the field when we had those disappointing losses. Mistakes are going to happen, especially in college ball. The less athletic players provide no margin for error. The point is if you don’t prepare the more athletic players, it’s too late to depend on them during a tight game. DW and Cav did the right things to win that game and we will probably beat the worst teams. What edge will we have against the better teams? Better schemes, better motivation (mousetraps), homefield crowd enthusiasm, luck, what? How can anyone expect a breather? Fortunately, the Syracuse head coach was even more conservative.

Comment by 66Goat 10.01.08 @ 9:05 am

this one’s for you Omar:

Receiver shuffle

Redshirt junior Oderick Turner has been inconsistent through four games, though he continues to hold onto his starting job. Turner has started three of the Panthers’ four games and is slated to start tomorrow night against South Florida.

But he has continued to drop too many passes — he had two key drops in the game against Syracuse — and yesterday, Wannstedt said it was likely to begin to affect his playing time.

That revelation brought the natural follow-up question — does that mean dynamic freshman Jonathan Baldwin, who is listed as Turner’s backup, will get more playing time?

“No, Cedric McGee will get more work,” Wannstedt said. “It will be Ced.”

you keep believin’ in your boy wanny.

Comment by Scott 10.01.08 @ 9:53 am

From the Post Gazette today:

Receiver shuffle
Redshirt junior Oderick Turner has been inconsistent through four games, though he continues to hold onto his starting job. Turner has started three of the Panthers’ four games and is slated to start tomorrow night against South Florida.

But he has continued to drop too many passes — he had two key drops in the game against Syracuse — and yesterday, Wannstedt said it was likely to begin to affect his playing time.

That revelation brought the natural follow-up question — does that mean dynamic freshman Jonathan Baldwin, who is listed as Turner’s backup, will get more playing time?

“No, Cedric McGee will get more work,” Wannstedt said. “It will be Ced.”

Comment by Rex 10.01.08 @ 9:55 am

THANK YOU.

Comment by Jeff 10.01.08 @ 10:03 am

Reed,
Thank you for actually understanding the game of football and not just following the hype machines. It is nice to hear someone who actually takes a step away from the situation and looks at the whole picture. I couldn’t agree more.

Comment by Billy West 10.01.08 @ 10:47 am

All that I can remember about O’Derrick Turner’s great downfield blocking is the repeated holding calls agains him against WVU last season. Holds that McCoy didn’t need.

Reed our downfield blocking hasn’t been that great then, considering our longest run is 32 yards.

Comment by Omar 10.01.08 @ 11:38 am

Those were great blocks and bogus calls. Even the announcers had to acknowledge that.

Comment by Billy West 10.01.08 @ 11:45 am

Omar – you were screaming the loudest when those calls were made.

My point is that there is more to the WR position than just catching the ball. You know that as well as I do. What do you think the responsibilities of a WR is when the play call is a run, or a designated pass to one guy – “just go out there and scratch your nuts”?

We heard over and over from multiple sources that while Baldwin was making some good catches, he was way behind in other areas. My post was to show that this being brought along slowly really shouldn’t be that surprising to anyone.

Same with Greg Cross – for every positive thing we heard about his running ability – the coaches and writers were also saying his passing was way behind where it was needed to be at this level. So poor that a writer I trust was saying it was “scary”. Again, so why is everyone so surprised Cav & DW haven’t played him at QB?

No, what it is is that all these PITT fans believe what they want to believe based on self-generated hype via the message boards and Blogs. If you read what was written on there prior to this season you’d think Baldwin was Jerry Rice and Steve Largent’s clone and that Cross was Donovan McNabb. But it was all PITT fans saying that. It’s almost like if you hold your breath and wish REAL HARD it’ll come true.

And, I’m sick of reading these disgruntled PITT fans blaming the pre-season hype on Wannstedt. He never stated Baldwin would start or even get a lot of playing time, nor did he with Cross or Nix. He did say ‘we’ll have to try to get them in the games’ which is what has been happening.

It’s pretty obvious by now that this PITT team needs to minimize mistakes to be able to win games – if holding out some kids based on that, and their lack of progress in certain areas, helps that than I’m for it.

Comment by Reed 10.01.08 @ 12:12 pm

[…] was a point made about Wannstedt’s style that resonated with me. …And, we are always one hurt thumb away from […]


Even if he’s the worst blocker on the team, I think he should still be getting on the field more. We heard a constant stream of praise for Baldwin’s play-making ability throughout camp from the beat writers and while it’s true they noted that he was going to take some time to perfect his game, it’s clear that he should have gotten more playing time than he has so far. We can all see his potential- you don’t have to be at practice every day. Hell, just sending him deep over the middle or down the seams as a decoy would have to open things up underneath (right in the coaching staff’s comfort zone!) He’ll never get experience if he doesn’t get the chance to prove himself on the field.

Same goes for Cross- as Zeise has repeatedly said- why recruit the kid if you aren’t going to use him? They knew damn well exaclty what they were getting with him, plus he’s been at PITT with the team since last December and has been through spring and fall camp.

They are simply AFRAID. That’s what it always comes back to with these coaches. They just cannot allow themselves to have faith in “inexperienced” players and they use it as an excuse all the time.

LET THEM PLAY! LET THEM PLAY! LET THEM PLAY!

Comment by Dan35 10.01.08 @ 12:57 pm

Beat writers jobs are to stimulate discussion, excite the fans, if they simply just wrote Pitt looks average, the freshman are coming along slowly, nobody would be that interested in reading it. So basing your decision on that isn’t a great option. Zeisi’s point isn’t a great point anyways. Why recruit any kid if you aren’t going to use him. Inevitably, some will sit, some will develop, some won’t. Some will take time and some will be immediately ready. McCoy was ready pretty quickly last year. These guys maybe aren’t there yet. It isn’t fair to the kids to annoint them the savior’s of Pitt football.

Comment by Gino 10.01.08 @ 1:59 pm

Pitt needs to hope they can hold on in the 1st half…and keep SF close….I would design some plays to maximize Baldwin’s strengths….as you should with any young inexperienced talent….it just blows my mind that other teams seem to get true freshman more involved…..and they produce….with some risk…..but in the case of Baldwin…I say the risk is worth it

Comment by deter 10.01.08 @ 2:28 pm

Reed we saw the kid make two huge plays to save the season on Saturday. Don’t those count for anything?

Comment by Omar 10.01.08 @ 2:29 pm

^^^ Omar, sure it does, and we are seeing him being used more as the season goes on. I’ve also been waiting to see Baldwin catch passes like anyone else, and hope to see some more on Thursday night.

But, as opposed to other fans, I can understand that sometimes it’s just not a matter of sticking the kid in and letting him play, and all the other aspects of development be damned. Some fans say that’s playing scared, I say that’s being cautious regarding allowing big mistakes that benefit the opposition. Remember – a lot of this WC Offense is timing patterns and throwing to a spot. If Baldwin really doesn’t have the firm grasp of what he’s supposed to be doing then we’ll have a situation like last season where our QB was the opponent’s defense’s best friend.

I’ve posted this before – but I’ll repeat myself here. The last area of discussion in which I will criticize the coaching staff is personnel matters. We fans literally have no idea what they see day in and day out with these kids. Game & clock management, risk taking on offense and defense, play calling situations, etc… all those are pretty readily apparent and, I think, fair game for criticism, and I’ve been critical of DW for bad decision making in those areas sometimes. But for his (and Cav’s) not feeling like a player is ready to contribute the way he needs to is something I realize I’ve no basis for criticism.

I do think that had we not been in these close games we’d see more of Baldwin and Cross so that they can get acclimated to the actual game experience, but every play has meant something over these last four weeks and I understand DW’s approach with that. This is how DW does things with new kids – he gives them a more and more playing time as the season goes on, when the staff has a comfort level they feel they have reached with the new player. Even McCoy at the beginning of last year.With Cross I didn’t ever think he was going to be an integral part of the offense anyway, so I’m not surprised a bit by his lack of playing time.

I also think a key point in all this is Baldwin’s lack of experience at WR in HS. Lots of posters above are citing other true freshman who come into college and play well – and I think that’s unfair to Baldwin and to the staff. Those kids know the WR position like the back of thier hands after playing it for four years and Baldwin didn’t have the opportunity to learn it at TE. Going from HS to college ball is tough enough, and then having to learn a new position on top of it makes it even harder – so I’m not surprised this situation has gone like it has.

I did like seeing Collier get two rushes in front of his family on Saturday – I thought it was a class move and a welcome one.

Comment by Reed 10.01.08 @ 3:38 pm

[…] course, once things actually started playing out, Coach Wannstedt defended Stull by pointing out how little experience he had. “…That’s a little bit of inexperience but as I’ve said many times before, […]


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