Personally, I found myself reading and re-reading this today.
Pitt’s 20-16 loss Saturday to Rutgers was very much like the Panthers’ entire season — they played hard, but in the end they just didn’t make enough plays to come out ahead.
But close losses have become the norm for the Panthers (4-6, 2-3 Big East) under coach Dave Wannstedt as the team easily could be 7-3 had they just made a few plays.
As the story notes, that is the story each season under Wannstedt. Falling just short in a game here and a game there.
McGlynn is correct, the Panthers have had some tough-luck losses, including three games in which they had the ball inside the opponents’ 5 with less than a minute to play and a chance to either tie or win. But the bottom line is good teams find ways to make enough plays to win games, and Pitt has not done that.
That, however, isn’t much different than the previous two seasons under Wannstedt. Pitt needs to find a way to make plays in crucial situations.
I don’t buy into “luck” good or bad as the reason for this. Players, coaches and teams make their own luck. Relying on the other team to make the mistakes is a passive and losing approach. It also leaves no margin for error.
Now, with only a couple games left, the season is now about next year, so maybe, possibly there will be line-up changes. Call me cynical, but Coach Wannstedt has said such things all season but has been very unwilling to do much.
Failing to “get the job done” is a point Wannstedt emphasized Saturday.
That’s the main reason he benched two key players — quarterback Pat Bostick and cornerback Kennard Cox — in the Rutgers game and likely will shake up the lineup for the final two weeks. He also will spend an offseason making some moves with his coaching staff as well as changing some personnel as the pressure to replace “what-ifs” with “wins” next year will be enormous.
Frankly, the only “pressure” on him will be from the ticket office with renewal and sales of season tickets. If the idea of this year was to build to 2008, then it will be a hard sell to all but the die-hards (who likely already have tickets if they live close enough), that there was actually progress. The record — and the scores of the game — sure won’t convince many.
I haven’t given up on Wannstedt as coach of Pitt yet. At the same time, he hasn’t done much to make me believe in what he does with the team. Yes he is recruiting well, but so little has been done with it.
2008 looms larger and larger. 7-5 won’t be acceptable. I’m not saying Big East title, but there has to be more than rhetoric and a bunch of stars next to the recruits. There needs to be tangible evidence that the team is approaching this alleged next level.
For PITT it has all revolved around the inability to have even a consistent presence at the most important position on the field – let alone serviceable play from whomever is playing QB at any given time. When you can’t rely on even average play at that position, it bleeds through to every other aspect of the offense, and we’ve seen the results of that first hand. Bad luck – no, not really; but bad karma? maybe, and that’s even worse.
But, for this fan, even with all the close calls and blown opportunities – this season has been the most fun to watch in the DW era, if only for the fact that we have two great players to cheer on in McCoy and McKillop, and we can feel like anything can happen at the end because the kids have been keeping the scores close until the final gun. Big difference then last two years.
Remember Wanny was brought in to take Pitt to the next level! Next year is Wanny’s litmus test, my money is on 5-7 next year and he and his cast of coaching frauds will all be long gone!
The team made progress this year but it is a shame that the coaching staff held them back because Wanny, Rhoads and MC are just mental midgets!
Reed, fun to me is winning, not moral victories, this program has regressed under Wanny we went from tied for 1st place in the BE to fighting for last place with Syracuse. Wanny is a loser, have “fun” because 4-8 is a terrible record.
Please tell me what you want from our young man Tony, and coaching staff. They play hard. Everyone sees improvement. We are very young and we did not get the breaks.
Pitt72- we are all applauding the siging of Bostick and now you are writting him off as a bad recruit. look at Jesus Christ (JC) at Notre Dame. Stull was ready but an injury forced him out of the season. Dont you guys remember playing sports at 18, 19, 20, 21 and 22. Stop acting like these are professional and understand they a teenagers and very young adults.
Pitt is fine.
If you dont think there is a lot to look forward to next year, then you havent been watching our team play the last few weeks. I am as skeptical of DW as the rest of you but we all said that 2008 is really the year that is the test so lets see what happens. I’ve seen a lot of progress this year and hopefully it continues in the last 2 games. I think an upset win against wvu could be that huge confidence builder that springs us in to 08. Its up to the coaching staff to put together a game plan that allows us to win – pull out all of the stops, trick plays, whatever – that win would do wonders for the program.
Now the goal is to close on some recruits and get the fans back inot the stadium to show some support
HAIL TO PITT
Next year we had better be playing in a bowl game any bowl game or your man is toast.
Results are how people are judged in the real world.
Not by bad breaks/luck. Could of, should of, this excuse that excuse, bad call here, blah, blah, blah.
Results are what matters and all we have seen so far all is a regression in terms of a win/loss record year over year.
If we suck again next year I don’t want to hear that we have “turned the corner” or “we about to contend for the Big East title” or “DW need an extension” or any of that horseshit.
If Pitt has a losing record then all I want to hear from all of you is that DW sucks and was a bad hire.
This is something that many of us including me have been saying from the beginning.
If we make to the Tiddy Bowl I will state for the record that I was wrong and that DW is indeed a good coach and a great hire.
Anyone on board with this?
I guess we should just hire a new coach and start over and repeat this process for the next 40 years. It doesnt work firing coaches like a turnstyle. Pitt needs stablity and DW will bring Stability.
Give him the extension and lets roll the dice. He wants to be here and I wnat DW at PITT.
Tony, if we dont make a bowl who will you hire to replace DW? Than what happens after when this person leaves for greener pastures; which that coach will do
How long do you let anyone suck at thier job?
At what point do you say your just not getting it done?
5 years 6 years? I would think that four years of subpar results is long enough but some of you disagree.
How long do you let DW stay at Pitt without making to a single bowl game or producing a winning record?
Great question- How long do you let anyone suck at thier job? Look at the entire scope of the their job. Are kids going to class? Yes-minus fields) Are the players graduating? YES! Are there any off fields problems with the team (i.e PSU)? NO! Are kids get drafted? YES! Wins/Loses? NO! Recruits? YES!Upward Mobilty? YES! Alumni? YES! Fans? Luke Warm! National Player? YES! Are we cheating (paying players) or doing anything illegaly? NO!
To be honest- DW told everyone who would listen and repeated this to alumni, the ad, media and fans-Pitt would be READY TO COMPETE NATIONALLY in 2008. Guess what.. 2008 is next year and we look very very good… Add in some surprise recruits and you will never know
Tony- what does it take to build a program? Would you fired this person?
He’s only had two of his own complete recruiting classes – the 2006 and 2007 classes. Those kids are either true sophs, RS freshmen, or true freshmen either playing or about to take redshirts. As it was pointed out above, most of these kids are being relied upon to contribute now. How many teams out there are relying so heavily on their underclassmen through their two-deep AND producing big results?
Besides that, though, the continuity and stability argument holds a lot of merit.
I can understand the frustration with the system that Wannstedt and his coaches use. I can understand the criticism about some disturbing trends that have emerged with this team.
But we all know Pitt isn’t coughing up the $$ needed to bring in the big-name prospective coach, so to paraphrase Rick Pitino, Les Miles, Bo Pelini or whoever the Next Urban Meyer might be will not be walking through that door.
The more realistic option we can hope for, then, is to shoot for the next Brian Kelly – an under-the-radar name that will bring a more modern approach to the game.
But as cdmoore says, what happens when Brian Kelly II attains a certain level of success here and then gets an offer from a bigger, more iconic, “final destination” program? What happens when he leaves?
Do we want a coach who operates with one foot out the door like Petrino did during his entire Louisville tenure? Or look at Kelly at Cincy, where his name is already being bandied about at some other more traditional schools because of what he’s done in just one year at Cincy?
Are we going to do this every three or four years? And what if Brian Kelly II comes in and wants to implement his own system? No guarantees it works out just as well as Kelly’s did at Cincy (see Kragthorpe, Steve).
And how many times can we bring in a replacement, continue to get it right each time, and continue the successes established by the coach(es) who succeeded him, especially when the new coach is using players brought in by the old coach?
Pitt and the rest of the Big East programs still have not reached “dream job” status. They won’t reach that for a long time, or until more than one or two coaches reach a certain level of success and decide to start spurning offers from the more traditional, iconic programs.
I agree that we can’t afford to keep a substandard coach around simply for the sake of stability. Stability does no good unless there is noticeable progress being made. But it also does the program no good to continue to bring in a new coach every three to five years, either. Look at Alabama.
Given the dependency on so many young players, I think there has been enough progress made this year to bring Wannstedt back.
Well written. Greats fact. Nice comment.
I want to see more player development from DW and staff (esp Dickerson). This is the one area that could be huge. In my opinion Urban is not developing pro players nor is Phat Bastard Charlie White at ND.
I think Pitt is ready to get the HUGE WIN against USF and WVU. Yes, I thought Pitt would beat Rutgers.
i guess I am in the minority of giving DW the FIVE year extension. Pitt should roll the dice with DW and give him the extension. DW wants to be here and doesnt want to leave for Greenier pastures.
HAIL TO PITT
If he can’t do that then it’s time to go. I see a team that most likely will be 4 & 8 after two 6 & 6 seasons. I do not see things getting better next year.
I pray that I am wrong and that there are no injuries to any star players and that somehow the offense shows some ability to score verus a decent team and that we have a winning record.
If however we suck again then I think most people would put the blame on DW and his staff is this correct or should he stay another year or two?
Next year’s defense has the potential to be great. There is as much talent on the defensive line as there has ever been. There are 8 different linemen who are all very good who will be fighting for playing time. The 2 deep talent on the d-line is just incredible. Throw in a great middle linebacker in Scott McKillop and three good or great safeties (Fields, Thatcher & DeCicco). Bring on those spread offenses next year, I think we may now have the athletes to defend it. Pitt’s defense has the athleticism and depth to be very special in 2008 and beyond. Our only defensive weaknesses appear to be speed at outside linebacker and depth at cornerback, and we have good candiddates at those positions
Offensively, Pitt has some problems in the passing game. Shady and some pretty talented linemen highlight the offense. Finding a center is a big concern. The recevers and tight ends are good. Byham, Porter, Mo Williams & Aundre Wright are all talented and Derek Kinder returns.
Quarterback is the major question on offense. It has been such a bizarre year at this position with injuries, demotions, promotions and worst of all , 2 freshmen. It’s funny, but in the end, I think Pitt has three pretty decent quarterbacks returning, any of whom can lead Pitt to success. Bostick so reminds me of Bernie Kosar, which is one reason I think he has potential. Another reason is Bostick’s devotion to studying film. His work & study habits help him overcome some weaknesses. He needs to redshirt and spend the next year and a half working with Cavanaugh on his delivery motion, footwork, and the nuances and intricacies of the offense. We’re not sure what we’ve got with Stull, he was effective in the brief time he played before his injury. I thought Kevan Smith’s half of play against Rutgers was the best half played by any Pitt quarterback in 2007. His ability to convert third downs by running adresses Pitt’s biggest offensive weakness and adds an important dimension. If he can limit turnovers and master the short pass, Smith has the best skill set of the three. His ability to stretch the field with his arm strength and his ability to scramble on third down is just what this offense needs. I was impressed by his improved field presence in the Rutgers game. Not just because they both wore the same number 12, but Smith actually reminds me a little of Matt Cavanaugh the quarterback. Cavanaugh was a big strong kid who was effective as both a passer and runner. By the way, Cavanaugh has taken much criticism, some justified some not. Although oft times I do not agree with his play calls, I believe he deserves another year because of the weird stuff that happenned this year: Stull getting hurt, Bostick going home, a couple of quarterback switches, having to play a freshmen QBs for 11 games. I think Cavanaugh does everything else pretty well as an OC other than his conservative and uncreative playcalling.
We’re beginning to see growth & change from Pitt’s coaches. Successful coaches are able to adapt and learn to solve problems in new ways. We have seen that merely trying to do what was successful twenty years ago is no guarantee of success today. The team’s overall play, especially that of the defense has improved as the year has progressed. The defensive playcalling and the more agressive defensive mindset are big pieces of that, as well as the emergence of Shady and an improvement in Pitt’s turnover margin. The coaching staff deserves credit for the way they have kept the team together and playing hard. I don’t think we are playing not to lose, as many people thought we were earlier in the season.
My biggest coaching related concern is Pitt’s propensity to lose most of the close game. You’d think that a good coaching staff should be able to win their share (50%) of the close games, and a great staff even more. But Pitt has only won like 10% of the close ones during Wannstedt’s tenure.
For you Wlat supporters out there…I think Wlat did a good job here. He turned around a near dead program and had Pitt in the running for top 25 berths. In the end Wlat’s lack of interpersonal skills did him in. He had strained relations with Pitt’s administration, the media and high school coaches. Let’s see…that’s your boss, your customers…Pitt fans…who get most of their info from the media, and an important part of your supply chain, the high school coaches. It was time for Harris to leave. Eight years is an above average tenure in the upper levels of sports.
So, please don’t compare Wanny to Harris. Their records after three years are comparably bad. They both needed time to recruit personnel to fit their styles and you cannot compare Wanny’s three year tenure to Harris’ eight. And I think Wanny is doing a great job in recruiting and in being a spokesman for and a representaitve of the University. The program is headed in the right direction, the overall level of talent is much greater, our kids don’t get into trouble like neighboring programs and there is reason for optimism.
I think we should leave the Big East and become independent so we automatically get into a BCS game when we have a winning record, like Neutered Dame.
Wouldn’t it be amazing if we’re holding out on all the new looks and trickeration for the WVU game to stick it to them, considering that’s our bowl game? 4 or even 5 WR sets, Mo Williams winging it down field out of the wildcat, etc…WVUs defense hasn’t been very disciplined at all this year from what i’ve seen…
Just hopin…like i said earlier in this year, if we won one single game, as long as its the WVU game, i’ll be happy…and it seems that is the only way it’ll happen this year, considering our record…
Every time we have fired a coach things have gotten so much better. I mean every time.
Seriously, you need to give a coach 5 years. All his guys are freshmen and sophomores.
As for Wannstedt, it doesn’t matter what anyone thinks but Nordenberg. I’m convinced he doesn’t give much of a damn about football, and Wanny has a fat payoff if he’s fired now, as well as (likely) Rhoads and Cavanaugh, so I conveniently expect no changes in the offseason (well, maybe they’ll dump some of the lower priced assistants, like they did with Curtis Bray, or student managers or such as scapegoats). With no AD (and the way this admin flounders in its hires, not likely to have one for several more months) who is really going to challenge Wannstedt? And if he goes 7-5 next year, beating nobody of any real prominence, they’ll spin that into “success”. The guy is recruiting excellent players but doing very little with them. They coach like it’s the 1930’s.
By the way Jackie Sherrill didn’t do to bad during the short time he was here.
Other than the people clammoring for Wannstedt to be fired at the end of this year, I don’t think anyone – even Wannstedt’s supporters – would complain if they let him go after next season if the team doesn’t reach a bowl game. The point of my post was to suggest that I think it’s crazy to fire him after this season.
They’re going to be a young team again next year, especially on the o-line, but there should be enough talent and enough experience here to get a bowl game after the 2008 season.
As far as Wannstedt’s future goes next year, I don’t want to put any expectations on next season other than a bowl game appearance. The defense should be very good next year. The receivers and RBs are deep. QB might be a question mark, but not as big as some may think.
I think a lot will depend on the o-line. We’re going to have a mix of some young and very talented but very inexperienced linemen, along with a couple of guys coming off injuries. They’re going to have some growing pains next year. Lucas Nix is going from blocking AAA high school linemen in PA to blocking Division I-A defensive tackles – some of whom are four or five years older than he is – in the span of a year. I don’t care how good he is now; that’s a big adjustment to make and he might struggle here and there. We’ll see.
If Wannstedt can’t at least get to a bowl game next year, then I would agree that the change needs to be made.
“Are you at least winning as many games as the last guy?” If you are, then you’ll get a longer look. If not, you’ll get replaced, and rightfully so. If Wannstedt can get the team back up to 8 wins next year, he’ll get a longer look. If not, I wish him the best of luck in his broadcasting career.
The Schiano-Wannstedt comparison is a valid one if kept in the context of stability.
It’s certainly true that each inherited programs under vastly different circumstances. But Schiano went 12-34 in his first four seasons (2001-2004 seasons) and was forced to make some staff changes heading into his fifth year if he wanted to keep his job. Since that 2005 season, Rutgers is 32-15, including a 7-4 mark so far this year.
The point is that the administration was patient with him through three full seasons. In the fourth, they demanded some changes but didn’t fire him. Since then, he’s completely turned the program around.
Rich Rod down at WVU is probably the more accurate comparison. In 2001, Rodriguez inherited a WVU program that was 7-5 the year before, coming off a Music City Bowl win. In the final five seasons of the Don Nehlen era (1996-2000), WVU won at least seven games four times and went to four bowl games.
In his first year, Rodriguez went 3-8 (1-6 in the conference) but did the same thing Wannstedt did – implemented his system right away, roster makeup be damned. Whether it was a product of Rodriguez having talent on hand that fit his system almost right away or whether he’s just done a better job than Wannstedt putting the pieces he had in place, he’s won at least eight games in every season since.
Personally, I would prefer DW to lead the ship since he is less likely to leave and I like what he is building but decisions like that are way over my paygrade and what I donate to the University. For the record- I am in favor of a Five Year extension..NOW.
In regards to QB development- Bobby Bowden said it perfectly- A freshman or sophmore QB can only make one read. By their junior year they can make two reads and by their senior year they should be completely developed. That is the reason FSU was good b/c all their QBs where redshirt juniors during that ridiculious period of time where they were always ranked in the top 5.
Bostick will be fine. That is BS that he is not a D 1 qb because of his throwing motion. Big Time Programs wanted him and he choose PITT. To be honest- he managed the game plan well and will only get better with offseason worksouts conditioning, film study and expereince. Plus, majority of the receivers are freshmen and sophmores.
Like I said- I beleive the one area that I would like to see improvement in the coaching staff is player develoment- Dickerson is huge but Bostick is just as big. As we know all to well we are not going to get too many tailor ready players (i.e McCoy) into the program. FYI- Mr Pryor’s throwing motion is off, ala Vince Young, to and I know no one will complain when he shocks the world and signs with PITT (i dont have any inside information but I beleive he wants to be a Legend and he will never be that at OSU or WVU but it can happen at PITT)
HAIL TO PITT-
SUPPORT THE PLAYERS, THE UNIVERISITY, FANS, STUDENTS, ALUMNI and GIVE WANNY THE EXTENSION
How many QBs from Meyers, Spurrier or Harris’s coahcing regimen are doing well in the pros? NONE, unless you count Grossman and Smith. BUST!!! That is a gimmick offense that doesnt teach a QB how to read the defense. It teaches them to throw to a spot and fools defenses with trickeration.
We are fine at QB. Anytime you have to go to your third string QB who is a freshman that missed camp you will have problems. The staff did not get a chance to properly work with Bostick. In regards to Smith, with time he could develop into a solid QB. No one really expected Smith or Bostick to throw the ball all over the field like brady or Manning.
“Are you at least winning as many games as the last guy?†If you are, then you’ll get a longer look. If not, you’ll get replaced, and rightfully so. If Wannstedt can get the team back up to 8 wins next year, he’ll get a longer look. If not, I wish him the best of luck in his broadcasting career.
He is winning the same percentage as the former coach during the first three years. I beleive other poster confirmed that.
Brian- at least we know Pitt has Brooklyn in our house.
To ALL PITTs, fans, Alumni,and students
HAPPY TURKEY DAY WITH FAMILY AND FRIENDS.
HAIL TO PITT
In my opinion – what happens at PITT in regards to keeping DW or letting him go all revolves around the importance the PITT administration puts on two things; 1) the relative value of the football program to the rest of the University’s functions, and 2) the value the administration puts on winning as opposed to maintaining a positive status quo.
In both those cases PITT, IMO, has a coach in place that – while things could be better in the W-L column – meets the University’s needs.
Us fans can parse the intricacies of how well DW has done, or not done, until we are blue in the face and it really doesn’t matter because the administration will look at those same details as part of a whole. Fans want wins; the University wants a program that funds itself, has some semblance of success on the field and doesn’t create negative publicity for the school. I truly believe it’s that simple.
Now, I’m not blind to what was said when Harris was let go – I just never bought into the ‘higher level’ stuff. If that were to happen (and I believe it will at some point) that would be great and everyone would be happy. But if it doesn’t and DW keeps building a clean program, shows even a little bit of positive on field play, and creates some basis for optimism for the next few years – which we certainly have, then he’ll be extended in his contract.
As hard as it might be to accept – we have been, in DW’s three years, right around our historical winning percentage, maybe a little lower. We are nowhere near as bad as we were in the 50s & 60s, or early 70s and 1990s. Its not like we are taking body blows to our football reputation here – PITT is never on the national radar screen except for a few years here and there.
I posted this on another website but I’ll repeat: one need to look no farther then the decision to vacate PITT Stadium and become a long term tenant in a rented football venue to see exactly how much importance PITT puts on football.
