I have some theories about Pitt fans and the basketball team. I don’t think Pitt fans are unreasonable, overly negative or anything like that. I’m also hesitant to speak in blanket terms — especially in the immediate aftermath of a bad loss, I generally like to give a 24-hour “getting over it” period. But after the comments here and on the message boards I have to write something. The lack of perspective sometimes gets disturbing.
I think, more and more, that Pitt fans treat the basketball season as a football season. It’s kind of natural. Pittsburgh is a football town, and it’s the mentality. Where every loss is the end of it all. All hope for significant post-season is lost. That all flaws are permanently exposed and will be exploited without doubt from here-on out. That the team is doomed to early failure — again.
The basketball season isn’t like that. There are going to be bad nights, regardless of the talent or the coach. (Hell, ask UConn. There are going to be bad years.) There are going to be nights where the shots don’t fall, the team comes out flat. The energy, somehow, someway is inexplicably lacking.
There are also going to be nights where the other team comes out and does everything right. Where they have so much more energy and their execution is flawless and the ball hits right for them.
There aren’t many teams that can do what Louisville did last night for even a little while, never mind a complete game. Louisville hadn’t done it all season. It’s a team that a week ago lost to Villanova and Georgetown — teams Pitt had previously beaten. Pitino is a Hall of Fame coach with great talent and his team lost at home to Dayton and UMass this year.
Pitt has put away WVU in Morgantown by 13. No other team has beaten the ‘Eers in Morgantown this year. Pitt has beaten DePaul in Illinois where the same Blue Demons beat Kansas, and the Jayhawks also lost to Oral Roberts. Pitt lost to Marquette who lost to ND State and fell at home to Syracuse by 12.
I know that some of the anxiety is all about the NCAA Tournament and the seeding. I understand. I was the one who got annoyed over a mock bracket and the assumptions that led Pitt to being a 3 seed. In a mock bracket. The seeding helps in getting the weaker teams to move closer to the Sweet 16 and hopefully beyond. It is also the prestige issue of seeing Pitt on the #2 or even #3 line.
Yes, I know there are bad match-ups teams that will just make things more difficult to play. Or schemes that will give Pitt problems. That will be there regardless of the seed, though.
The thing is, Pitt could still go out in the first or second round. And you know, so could just about every team listed in the top-25. The #1 seeds may almost be set in my mind, but the field is just unpredictable. This Tournament may not have a George Mason but the difference between the 2 seeds and the 9 seeds seem smaller than ever. Even the 1 seeds don’t look that far superior. It just takes one bad game, or one really spectacular game. Regardless of the talent, the system and the coach.
The expectations are our (at least my) fault. This team on paper wasn’t really any better than last years team. Its OK to have high hopes, but realistically finishing near to top of the BE conference and making a run at the BE title was probably all we should have hoped for. You get caught up in the 20+ win thing, and you loose sight of the facts. Looking back, the warning signs were always there.
Still, to be utterly and totally embarrased in your own house stings a little, as does coming to the realization that this team isn’t nearly as good as I hoped/thought it might be. I still feel the coaching is questionable, and I still think we might have a way to go before getting to the next level.
That being said, we can still give people fits when we play well, and anything can happen. Omar is right: its one game at a time from here on out. Every game will be tough, and we can’t look past anyone. We’ll see if they can man up and re-focus.
The best thing about this loss is that it WAS A BLOWOUT. I think we all have become comfortable with the previous three losses with simple explainations (OT, Brian Butch, Tim Higgins, whatever). But not this loss. This ass-kicking was COMPLETE. It should serve as a wake up call: that to win, you need effort, hustle, confidence and focus every night.
How the Panthers respond against UW will be very telling. This should be a good test, lets hope the boys are ready.
“Hail to Pitt”
“Hail to Pitt”
“Sarcasm Added!”
“Hail to Pitt”
This was really the first time that our outside shooting failed–we didn’t luck our way to hitting 42.6% behind the arc in the BE. We should focus on setting some screens so that our best 3 pt shooters can get into a rhythmn if possible.
I fortunately did not see most of the game- but it appeared that we lost our composure in the face of the full court press–we should certainly expect to see more teams try that, and should be prepared for that the rest of the year. I would make them bring the ball in against 6 guys in practice, just to have them get used to it. A 10 second or 5 second call is not as damaging as a turnover that turns into a fast break.
I agree that some of the more acerbic tones from the fans is probably based on our disappointing finish in FB this year. We are not the only team to lose at home–look at Duke, Texas AM, and NC to name a few.
There is still a lot to like about this team–we ARE UNDEFEATED ON THE ROAD in the BE–and we play well with the lead in close games. Doing well outside of the Pete may make us more likely to do well in the tournament. But winning the BE tournament, or being the regular season BE champ, does not predict success necessarily.
One of the mags( think it was Sporting News) pointed out that the teams that finish strong in their last 10 games ( including 10-0 finishes) do not do any better than teams that finish with a 6-4 record. The tournament comes down to match-ups , and the team with the most NBA talent generally wins.(Florida, UCONN, NC)in past years. Our best Pitt team was the one that won the BE regular season, hammered UCONN by 18 in the tournament final, won our first 2 games easily, then lost to future NBA star Duane Wade.
Up until now, this team has seemed to have a lot of chemistry, and seems to be made up of good guys. They handle themselves with class–one bad loss to Louisville shouldn’t change all that. You never hear a bad thing about any of the Pitt basketball players.
I may be in the minority on this one–but as far as
I am concerned–the future is now–we won’t have Aaron Gray next year–so if we need to burn Gilbert Brown’s redshirt to give us more depth, and improve our chances in the tournament, go for it.
We have been the Indy Colts of the NCAA–a great regular season record–not so good in the postseason. Personally, I can live with all of that–but the Colts finally got over this year, and so can we.
Seems like the solution is more perimeter motion instead of just standing around waiting for the pass, tactics which worked previously. Agree?
I think a lot of us discerning fans are understandably concerned that we don’t have much idea how good this team is because they never play anybody. We go to the games and see a team without any consistently explosive players (Sam Young is anything but consistent), and wonder how we’ll match up with some thoroughbreds outside the conference. The L-ville game just confirms a lot of doubts for us.
All that being said, I think Pitt will finish with close to 30 wins and that’s a great year for anybody. I’m realistic — I would be very surprised to make it past the Sweet 16 and that’s fine with me. Let’s celebrate what we have — a very competent, well-schooled unselfish team and be grateful we’ve got a program on the way up. There’s always next year.
(Not sure what somebody was talking about with respect to beating L-ville in the BE tournament last year, the final delta was 5 pts, I think).
Pitt probably played a little more methodically than they normally do in the 2nd half, but they didn’t stall and they play methodically anyway, so it didn’t feel much different. L-ville’s style was and is based on 3s, so it wasn’t a surprise that they finally got hot.
Omar — cool it down. Nobody’s making “stupid arguments”. Everybody watches and comes away with their own opinion and it doesn’t have to agree with yours.
Was that the same Pitino who said he didn’t see any weaknesses in Pitt’s team this year? That tells you all you need to know about referencing coaches’ comments for truth.
Seems kinda strange, since that was such a blowout. Hmmmmm……….hope you can feel the sarcasm dripping….
You can cite upsets (like Oral Roberts over a very young KU team) all day long (surprised you didn’t manage to work in Chaiminade over Ralph Sampson and Virginia while you’re at it), or you can talk about tough league games (like VA Tech over UNC or Tech over A&M) but Monday night’s game didn’t feel like either of those. It was a beat down….a real butt-kicking. It also made only too clear how weak Pitt is when Gray isn’t on the court. Pitt struggled to get any good shots off in the halfcourt, and it didn’t have anything to do with gimmick defenses or the press (which they struggled against too.) For once, Pitino got his team to combine smart offense with some aggressive D full-court and half-court and the result was ugly for us Pitt fans.
I hope they rebound against Washington (not too impressed by what I’ve seen from the Huskies) and put L-ville far behind them. We all need to realize, though, that this kind of game shouldn’t be so much of a surprise for a team that doesn’t have to face much comp night in and night out in their conf. Because of that factor, I expect Pitt to win out at the Garden and get a strong seed in the Big Dance. We can always hope, right?
I had to give my tickets away on Monday so you are right, I wasn’t there. I was there for every other game including UCONN and don’t tell me Louisville has better athletes than they do. Pitt got beat, badly I might add. So what? Good teams lose all the time. Sometimes they even get their ass kicked (see Marquette over UCONN last year). It happens. You deal with it and move on. The season didn’t end on Monday. It won’t end for a while. You can’t get too high after a win or too low after a loss. Pitt’s loss didn’t change much nor should it. We play Washington on Saturday which should be a tough game and then we have the stretch run. The Louisville game is over. It has nothing to do with the rest of the year. You can pretend that Louisville’s athletes exposed us, but every team in the Big East has athletes. Syracuse does, Villanova does, Georgetown does, UCONN does, heck even Providence does. Pitt managed to do fine against all of those teams. Pitino’s gimmicks worked on Monday. Pitt will be ready for them in the future.
Not sure what the heck you’re talking about with Marquette and UConn last year. Yes, Uconn had a bunch of studs (who never formed a team), but Marquette had the same backcourt and Novak and that big kid inside who they’re missing this year. They were better last yr than they are this yr, but this year’s Marquette team plays against crappy competition.
I’m still trying to figure out who’s athletic (besides UConn’s guards and a very undersized Adrien) on your list of teams. Nova is hurting for athletes (who — Cunningham, Clark, are you kidding?), Syracuse has one athletic big man in Roberts,but he stinks, Providence has q, and G-town lost their best athlete in Bowman and still has Green but that’s it.
From your response it’s clear you’re not getting what is meant by an athletic team.
Sumpter’s playing on impaired knees, and it shows and Scottie Reynolds isn’t a big, rangy athlete like Pitt saw on Mon night.
Hibbert is as slow as molasses and Macklin and Summers are no-names. As I already conceded, UConn has quick guards and an under-sized Adrien, but that wasn’t what L-ville had…….which was big, fast players at multiple positions.
You can over-rate the upper-classmen scraps left in the BE (like Nichols) or over-rate the young players (like Harris), but reading what you wrote doesn’t make any of it convincing. The league stinks and just isn’t stocked with athletes this year. It’s going to be fun listening to the talking heads at ESPN try to make the BE tournament sound interesting.
Thanks for letting me (and the rest of the public) believe what we want about Pitt. I really appreciate that you’re giving us permission to have our own opinions.
All this “ready to play”, “got to be prepared” stuff is hogwash. Sure, everybody has good nights and bad nights. We’re all fallible. That’s not the point. You can sincerely believe anything you like — being prepared or not or being ready to play doesn’t affect whether your guards can get a shot off in the halfcourt after they’ve been facing the same defense for 30 mins. At some point your talent and athletic ability take over and you can either get it done or you can’t. Pitt’s ability to rise up and overcome a bad night is very limited because their athletes are just limited, especially in the backcourt. Fields, Ramon, Graves, Cook…..they just looked overmatched. Some nights good coaching and systematic play might overcome that deficit….most nights it won’t. You don’t have to believe it from me…..most nights the athletes win. I personally love watching a less athletic team beat the studs who don’t play with any discipline, but it doesn’t happen near as much as I’d like it to, so I’m realistic about it. A little realism doesn’t hurt sometimes; in fact, it cushions the fall that is mostly certainly coming.
There’s no theory in what I wrote. It is what it is. Athletes generally win out. It’s as close to a sports truism as there is.
You act like we have a team full of stiffs. Fields is a dynamic offensive player with some obvious shortcomings defensively. Graves is a capable athlete and is having a great year. Cook is playing awful but he has shown flashes of the player he can be. Ramon is what he is, a great 3 pt. shooter. and very limited athlete. Gray is a wonderful college center. Kendall stinks, but Young has been playing great the last month. Benjamin is a great athlete but limited in what he can do. Pitt is a solid team that can win the whole thing if they get hot and things go their way.
What I don’t agree with is the end result. They are just a solid team with solid players, Gray being the only exception. He’s a wonderful college center, as you said, and that is unusual. Unfortunately that’s not enough to give this team an upside, which is why you’ll see most analysts give this team very little chance for real post-season success. Not a whole lot different than last year…….slightly better because Krauser stunk. If you replaced Graves (I’d even give up his defense) with a really good scorer at the 2, I’d have a much different opinion.
Obviously we differ on this, but Pitt’s not the type of team that can get hot and fry anybody. That’s not what solid players like Fields, Ramon, Graves, Cook, Kendall, etc. etc. can do. They’re solid, not explosive. There are no Afflalos or Brewers or Hansbroughs or Wrights or Durants or even Budingers on this squad.
Which isn’t to say I wouldn’t like to be surprised. I’m just realistic enough to know it won’t happen.
Save Durant, the players you mentioned are not going to carry any team to a national championship. In fact, Afflalo, Brewer and Hansbrough aren’t even the best players on their team.
I disagree with your characterization of Pitt’s chances last year….mostly because of Krauser. They were never going to get anywhere with him dominating the ball. Any of those mid-majors could have taken Pitt out last year.
Your mind is made up on Pitt. That’s great. It must be easy and fun and simple to be a fan with no doubt.
The comment on Afflalo, Hansbrough and Brewer pretty much cancels my desire to argue with you, because it brings into question your ability to assess college (not pro) hoops talent.
Calling Ellington and Lawson and Wright more important to NC than Hansbrough is funny. Take the core meat away and the rest of those kids are freshmen… including another PG, of which there are many. If you took Hansbrough away, Wright wouldn’t get all those free rebounds on the weak side and we wouldn’t hear much about him yet. (The same way Josh Booth got all that attention as a freshman playing alongside Okafor. Wright obviously has a bigger upside than Booth, but you get the point.) Arguing about Lawson and Ellington is laughable……you must have read too many scouting reports before they even got to Chapel Hill.
And Collison is another sweet PG, but he’s not the heart of that team yet. Afflalo is their unquestioned leader and was even last year while Farmar was still there. Yes, they missed Collison in Morgantown, but if you took Afflalo away instead they would have lost by 30. Westbrook held his own and they don’t have a replacement at SG.
Those are interesting opinions from one who professes to know quite a bit about the game. But, as I’ve said repeatedly, we’re all allowed to have opinions.
Hansbrough is the most overrated player in college basketball. Ellington, Lawson and Wright are much more important to the team. As for Collison you couldn’t be more wrong. He makes tha team tick, from his on the ball pressure defense, ability to find people on the break, and lightning quickness. They would barely be in the top-25 without Collison. Brewer is important, but Green’s play this season has made them a much better team than last year.
Nearly every good team has a decent PG. It just isn’t that unique. Look around the country — it’s a guard’s game, because of the rule changes. Good ones are everywhere. What’s rare is a 6’8″ athlete who can play offense and defense equally well or a 7-foot center who can pass, rebound and score. Those are rarities and differentiators.
You’re woefully wrong on UConn 2007. You could add Kidd to that team and they wouldn’t be a threat to win anything. You still need better players than Dyson, Thabeet, Adrien…..
And your other examples are way too casual. LSU lost Mitchell, but they lost Thomas, too, and it was Thomas that exploded in the tourney last year. Mitchell was just a solid player, not a star. Brady should have had a at least a serviceable replacement waiting in the wings for Mitchell, but he’d be hard-pressed to find an athlete like Thomas again. That’s why the NBA jumped on him — he was unusual.
UCLA is the best example of my point. If Collison stayed out a while, and Westbrook got some more time, he would be a very credible replacement. Not as quick, but solid. They wouldn’t be a threat to win it all, but they’d still be ranked.
The UNC thing is too bizarre to answer.